Baby Y4M is two weeks old now and either her latch or my nipples or some combination of those is not great. We had some help from a lactation consultant at first and got it down for awhile, but in the past few days she is just refusing the breast. She gets frantic and fights, gets her hands and arms in the way, and just generally refuses to suck.
I am super lucky that my supply is pretty good--I usually get 5-6oz in a pumping session. That's without much work to create or maintain that supply. And she'll happily take the bottle (from me or DH or anyone else)
She had a tongue tie which we had clipped yesterday (it's funny to see her suddenly discover she can stick her tongue out). The pediatrician also gave me nipple shields. I'm sure I could also spend more time with the LC working on it if we wanted to.
But I find myself debating how hard I should fight to make actual breastfeeding work. It's very frustrating for both me and baby, and pumping has been so efficient and easy.
Just curious to hear thoughts from people who have been there. Is it worth fighting to get her to actually breastfeed now because it will make life that much easier later? Anyone who EPed have regrets about it?
Basically open to any advice or thoughts in either direction.
I did it twice - first child for 5 months, second about 3.5 months - and it had its ups and downs but I had a low supply so it was pretty frustrating for me, especially as the kids became more active. It's hard to hold a baby when I'm chained to a pump. My advice is whichever you choose make sure you empty your breasts every time the baby eats for at least the first six weeks to establish your supply. If you decide to EP I would rent a Symphony pump. And join the Exclusive Pumpers group on Facebook, there's lots of support.
I EPed for P. I hated it and I made myself miserable over it until he was 10 months old when he finally decided to take formula.
Keep in mind that while BFing will potentially get easier, EP never really does and can get harder as you have a mobile baby. The pump also ties you down somewhat--you have to lug it everywhere, have a power source, have somewhere to store milk, etc. It was also emotionally tiring to constantly be isolated while pumping, having to take breaks, stuff like that.
2-3 weeks is kind of the peak of shitty nursing, and it does improve as they get bigger, stronger, and more efficient usually.
I don't want to push you to keep BF if you don't want to, but frankly I would recommend FF over EP again.
Post by mccallister84 on Jan 20, 2017 13:53:56 GMT -5
Slightly different than straight EP but my DD is 11 weeks old today. She wouldn't really latch for the first two weeks of life and then would only latch with a shield. We saw everyone - 5 different lactation consultants and a SLP as we were referred for a feeding eval. I was pumping 7-8 times a day and getting 16-20 ounces. She was taking about 24 by bottle so we had to add in some formula. Our plan had been to put her to the breast for 15 minutes or so and then I would pump and give her the bottle. Pumping was killing me - she would scream from hunger when I pulled her off the breast to hook up to the pump but I had to pump while bottle feeding. It took me 20 minutes and I didn't have that time any other time. h I decided I would be done at her one month birthday but then she ended up hospitalized with RSV at 19 days and I felt like I owed it to her to keep going, hoping that the breast milk would give her some protection over the rest of the winter. Literally two weeks ago she figured out the nursing, prior to that she hadn't ever transferred more than 0.9 ounces and it is so much easier. However I know I couldn't have kept up with the pumping much longer. My day revolved it. I couldn't go more than 3 hours, maybe 4, without pumping so we were very scheduled to make sure we were back home in time to pump or I could pump in the car. I couldn't have done it with an older kid. And I don't know if I would have kept it up if I was going back to work. Feeding her was really consuming our whole lives and iif I had limited time at home with her I think I would have liked to be able to focus more on just enjoying her rather than stress about every ounce she took in and I put out.
If you have help it may be easier. The weekends were always better because my husband could give her the bottle while I pumped. There were some very strong benefits to the bottle. She went on a pretty good schedule around 6 weeks or so. She has been a pretty great sleeper. I know sleep is a crapshoot but I think having a full belly before going down really helped her. So much so thst we still have DH give her a bedtime bottle and I pump then.
I know our situations are different, and it did end up working out eventually for us, but I really admire anyone who EPs. I wouldn't have been able to keep it up much longer.
I BFed for over a year, and I definitely wouldn't have made it that long if I EP'ed. Pumping at work was entirely enough of that for me, TYVM! I was not one of those "BM is liquid gold!" people so much as, I liked BFing and found it made life SO much easier when we were together. It was hard for the first 3-4 weeks, but after that it just worked for us. No bottle washing, no bottle prepping or warming on the go, we could just ... go places! without sweating bringing milk. It didn't matter as much when I was home on ML, but when I went back to work and felt like I was juggling a thousand things, any bottles (and pump parts) that I didn't have to wash was worth it. It's also a time saver to BF rather than separately pump and bottle feed.
If you still feel like it's something you'd like to do, now that the tongue tie is clipped I'd give it another go with an LC. But if you decide you are over it, EPing until you decide you're over that or FFing are totally fine too. It's about what works best for the two of you.
ETA: I also ditto Brie 's comments. The one about pumping being isolating resonated with me in particular. I found pumping really lonely, and if I had to pump with Hobbes around for some reason, I hated nothing more than for her to be upset about something, and I couldn't do a lot about it because I was hooked up to the pump. Before my mom died (when Hobbes was 5m old) I did a bunch of extra pumping on holidays and when my mom was visiting, so my mom could give Hobbes bottles. It was her first grandchild, and she loved doing it. But I found I spent so much of the time closed off from everyone, pumping those bottles. It was miserable. Hats off to the moms who do, but at least with my lifestyle I can't imagine doing that long term.
I'm sorry you're struggling. I don't have any experience to share. I have a friend that EP'd for a year and in some ways she makes it seem like it was more convenient than BF-ing because she was able to get what she needed in very few sessions per day and didn't have to be tied to baby all day or for long stretches when they are in growth spurts or comfort nursing. You seem to have a good attitude about the pump, so you may have a great experience EP.
She is so cute! I EP'd (and supplemented with formula) from the beginning with my twins. I lasted 6 months. I never tried nursing. I'm glad I did it, and would do it again, but it was hard. I started at about 8x per day and cut down over the months. Happy to talk through it more if it is something you choose to do.
Post by Ashley&Scott on Jan 20, 2017 14:12:20 GMT -5
If you just had her tongue tie clipped I would expect that BFing has a good chance of improving. My advice would be to keep pumping & trying to BF while seeking out a lactation consultant. Do you have any breastfeeding support groups in your area? Often they are hosted by local hospitals & are free to attend.
Post by barefootcontessa on Jan 20, 2017 14:12:25 GMT -5
Congratulations! She is adorable. EPing sounds completely miserable to me -- basically you be doubling the time to feed the baby, assuming you do the majority of the feeding. I definitely think it is worth the effort to get her to eat from the breast. BFing becomes so much easier over time and is ultimately very convenient ... no/fewer bottles to prepare, wash, etc. IME there is a steep learning curve with BF and even more so with her tongue. Maybe give it a set amount of time to set improvement before going the EP or formula route. And to make it MM, formula is expensive!
I had made the decision prior that I wouldn't let myself EP. If it was a short term part to get to BFing, that's great, but I didn't feel that the benefits of BM in a bottle vs formulae in a bottle were worth the struggles of EP.
My baby is now 4.5 months, but I switched to exclusively pumping about a week in. We've now moved on to formula (I was not blessed with supply), so I'll tell you some pros and cons of being all bottle.
Pro: - anyone can feed her, including my husband in the middle of the night - I never have to worry about daycare feedings, etc - she'll never have to adjust to a bottle
Cons - my god, I think bottles multiply during the day. I feel like all I do is wash bottles. - it's more to lug around when you're already dragging a baby out with you - you also need to make a reasonable assumption of how much milk you need to bring with you before you leave the house. It's not hard, but there's some guesswork
As far as pumping vs. breastfeeding - oy. I would get up in the middle of the night to pump to to maintain supply and if you leave the house for a long time, you'll have to drag the pump, too. If she's breastfeeding, you don't have to worry about any of this.
I have a friend that EP'd for a year and in some ways she makes it seem like it was more convenient than BF-ing because she was able to get what she needed in very few sessions per day and didn't have to be tied to baby all day or for long stretches when they are in growth spurts or comfort nursing.
This is totally how it is feeling right now. So far I can pump 6oz in 20 minutes every 6 hours. So that's theoretically 4 20 minute sessions a day to meet her needs, and big gaps for sleep or freedom for 6 hours between. Somehow I don't seem to get engorged between. Thanks boobs!
I'm just not sure if it's likely to stay like that long term because it seems totally doable so far and much easier than nursing. But then I guess it's never a bad thing to have another option, which nursing would be if we worked at it.
I BF DD1 and ended up EP for DD2&3. I think if physical BF is important to you it is worth working with an LC now that her tongue tie has been clipped, and in general I think it takes a good 2-4+ weeks to have BF worked out and not be as stressful.
If physical BF isn't a big deal for you, you could totally try EP. I did it for over a year for twins and don't regret it one bit, but my circumstances also made it a bit easier. I have a private office with a fridge, a job where I can take my own breaks, and I had a large supply. I was also dealing with one baby who had medical issues I couldn't control and I really wanted her to have BM.
If BM isn't a bid deal to you, or if EP doesnt end up working out, I wouldn't hesitate to switch to FF. Fed is best and your happiness (and sanity!) are super important! Congratulations!
Did they give you any exercises to do with baby after the tongue tie snip? I was seeing a LC and she had a ST/OT sit in on a session and teach me how to strengthen/control his tongue post-snip. I remember there was some sort of side-to-side exercise, but I can't remember the other ones.
Did they give you any exercises to do with baby after the tongue tie snip? I was seeing a LC and she had a ST/OT sit in on a session and teach me how to strengthen/control his tongue post-snip. I remember there was some sort of side-to-side exercise, but I can't remember the other ones.
They just told us to have her suck on a finger and then pull the finger out to draw the tongue out as well. Nothing more than that. Maybe that's worth seeing the LC for. She is wonderful (and right in my pediatricians office). I feel some kind of shame about how we had things working and now suddenly don't that is holding me back I think.
I have a friend that EP'd for a year and in some ways she makes it seem like it was more convenient than BF-ing because she was able to get what she needed in very few sessions per day and didn't have to be tied to baby all day or for long stretches when they are in growth spurts or comfort nursing.
This is totally how it is feeling right now. So far I can pump 6oz in 20 minutes every 6 hours. So that's theoretically 4 20 minute sessions a day to meet her needs, and big gaps for sleep or freedom for 6 hours between. Somehow I don't seem to get engorged between. Thanks boobs!
I'm just not sure if it's likely to stay like that long term because it seems totally doable so far and much easier than nursing. But then I guess it's never a bad thing to have another option, which nursing would be if we worked at it.
I EP for 6.5 months. This was very similar to my output experience in the beginning. It was starting to look like it wouldn't be enough around three months but then my body decided to make a few more ounces each day and we carried on until about 5 months. At that point I had to start supplementing and as she became more mobile, It became nearly impossible to keep pumping. I didn't hate pumping, but if there is a next time I will go to FF much sooner.
Did they give you any exercises to do with baby after the tongue tie snip? I was seeing a LC and she had a ST/OT sit in on a session and teach me how to strengthen/control his tongue post-snip. I remember there was some sort of side-to-side exercise, but I can't remember the other ones.
They just told us to have her suck on a finger and then pull the finger out to draw the tongue out as well. Nothing more than that. Maybe that's worth seeing the LC for. She is wonderful (and right in my pediatricians office). I feel some kind of shame about how we had things working and now suddenly don't that is holding me back I think.
I went to the LC a lot in early days. Things keep changing, so keep leaning on them for support.
BFing is such an emotional mindfuck... Seriously, you're doing great.
I EP'd for about 3.5 months and it just seriously stressed me out. I had a great supply, but I could never manage the logistics of feeding DD (upright, since she spit up a ton) and then pumping while she napped. It only really worked when my H was home to feed her while I pumped. And that wasn't really fair to him to do all of the feedings. The stress got to me and I just got a lot of clogged ducts, which shot up my anxiety since I had already been hospitalized recently after giving birth.
If I had trouble BFing, I wouldn't hesitate to go straight to FF next time. That being said, if your cutie just got her tongue tie corrected yesterday I'd give it a few more days to see if things improve and then reevaluate.
I mostly EP'd from approximately when my DD was 4 months to a couple of weeks past 1 year. I had a friend that EP'd for almost a year, so the concept wasn't foreign to me and I had talked to her a lot about it, even though I didn't plan to do it. Had I not talked through it a lot with her, not sure I would have done it.
My DD maybe had a decent latch, it was never quite clear, but she didn't transfer a lot and it took her FOREVER to nurse. Like a session was never shorter than 30 minutes. Usually at least 45 minutes. I also started pumping really early, at least 1-2 times a day from the day after she was born and using that milk to supplement, so pumping was a part of my life from the beginning.
Once I returned to work from maternity leave, it was clear that 45 minute nursing sessions were not going to work anymore and pumping was a lot quicker. I got into a routine of pumping early morning, 3 times at work, and once before bed. I pumped 5 times a day until she was around 10 months, then backed off so that I was done right after 1st birthday. The early pumping when she was little helped build a freezer supply that got me through to the end.
In some ways, I did actually find it more convenient and quicker. I had my schedule and so I pumped on that schedule. I could go run errands alone and not worry about her waking from a nap and needing to be fed. Others could always feed her bottles. If we were driving (as in, DH driving), I could pump and feed her a bottle and not have to stop and nurse. I was already pumping at work anyway, so it was only 2 more times a day added in.
One rule I had was that I never pumped overnight. I still nursed overnight for feeds even if it took longer. Pumping at 3am just never seemed like a place I wanted to go. I also still nursed her to sleep until around 8/9 months so we still had that relationship a little bit.
On the other hand, you are tied to the pump and the parts. You always need to have the pump with you if you are going to be away from the house/office for a period of time. It was so freeing when I got back my pumping time.
You mention that you are pumping 4 times a day and getting 6 oz each time. My guess is that may not keep up. I think one reason my supply kept up was because I nursed so much early on. Even though it took her forever, she was getting milk and telling my body to keep making more. If you want to keep going, I would probably keep trying to nurse at least some, and probably add in another pump for now.
If you do keep it up, I have tips for returning to work and pumping and probably some other tips about EPing generally so feel free to tag or PM me.
I'm with Brie . FF is SO much easier than EP! I mean we combo fed from the beginning (slow eater; party of one). I gave up BFing at 2 months because crying every 1-2 hours because DS took an hour to eat and it was super painful was terrible. At 2 months we went to just bottles and I pumped every 2-3 hours. I felt like all I did was care for DS and pump. I never had any down time or time to do laundry or get out of the house even. And we were supplementing anyways so when DS was week shy of 4 months I quite pumping and we just FF. Changed my life for the better! I was so much happier! I did and do have moments of regret that maybe I didn't try harder, but man it was rough and I was miserable. I didn't want to miss out on DS' first year because I was so miserable.
y4m , I hope BFing gets better for you or EP is a great choice for you. For me, at the time; I wanted H or someone to decide for me. Tell me it was ok to be done. Looking back; I'm glad it was my choice.
Also, your supply is greatest now. 6 oz four times a day will likely drop soon and not be sufficient. I would think you need to pump at least 6 times a day if not 8 to establish a good supply.
Post by PennyCandy on Jan 20, 2017 17:33:04 GMT -5
Lurker chiming in. I EPed for 7 months when my supply dropped drastically and had to stop. I tried to BF for 5 weeks and saw multiple LC's, but I still wish I tried for even a week longer. EPing is hard. In the beginning you really need to pump when the baby eats to establish your supply. It was so hard to get up in the middle of the night to feed, burp, and change the baby and then to have to hook myself up to the pump for 20 more minutes. Once he got through that sleepy newborn phase, it got even harder. He was content in the RNP or swing anymore. There were days he would scream and I would have to stop early and days that I would feel guilty about the time I spent hooked up to the pump instead of spending my time with him. My schedule also revolved around the pump. It's not so easy to pump while you are out and about. If didn't keep a strict schedule, my supply would drop. All that to say, I don't think it was the right choice for me, but many women are successful with it. www.exclusivepumping.com is a great resource.
My DS1 and DS3 had zero latch at birth. With DS1 I did everything I could think of to get him to nurse-- LC consults, shields, bottle feeding then trying to nurse, setting feedings closer together, feeding on demand-- nothing worked. I ended up EP and trying every week or so to see if he had figured it out. He finally latched at 11 weeks and we were good.
Same thing happened with DS3-- at 11 weeks it just clicked.
Point being, you do what is best for you, but it doesn't hurt to try nursing every now and then to see what happens. I personally found nursing way easier than pumping around the clock, but every one is different!
I never had to EP and I'm sure I would have gone to formula quickly because I just didn't like pumping nor did I make a ton for the pump. I do remember how "seductive" giving her a bottle was when she was 2W old. But we got over the hump by:
1) Never giving the bottle first, always give breast first. Then if she just won't eat, give pumped milk 2) Pump a little bit to stimulate your let down and then put her on the breast. Some newborns (like my first) are just lazy and don't want to work for it. After she woke up at a few weeks of age it was fine.
I EPed and regret it. Or, I regret putting so much effort into pumping, at least. I felt like my whole life revolved around pumping.
After the first week of his life, in breast-feeding hell, I decided to EP and kept it up for the first 3 months, while still offering the breast regularly. At about 3 months, my kid magically decided to nurse again, and I quit pumping. It all worked out, in terms of getting back to the breast, but those months of pumping were so awful.
If you don't mind pumping and it's working out ok for you, then KOKO. I just regret the stress of it. What I probably should have done, at least, was a super half-assed job of pumping with formula as needed.
I EP'd for a full year. My son was in the NICU for a few days, did not get to BF right away, and then I had no help from a LC (it was a holiday weekend) and he was lazy. Latched fine too.
I missed being able to BF. When you EP, you're tied to your pump. And my H took on a lot of baby watching responsibility while I pumped. It was easy when he was little, but once he got mobile it became hard.
However, I'm more proud of being able to provide milk to my son than probably anything else I've ever done. It was hard and worth it. I hope to get a lot of support with this current baby I'm expecting so I can BF, but I will EP again if I have to.
We had to supplement with formula from the beginning; I started pumping in the hospital and never produced more than 60% of what DS needed. At 6 months I was down to one nursing session a day and that was more for me than it was for him-he still needed a bottle after and I still had to pump because he never effectively learned to transfer milk.
I pumped until 11 months. I hated it. I wouldn't do it again.
Have you tried a nipple shield? I had to do that with DS1 for a few months. When you do bottles, are you pacing? If it's too easy to get a bottle, they are less likely to go back to breastfeeding.
I nursed DS1 for 18 months and I loved it overall. I had some challenges at first but nursing gets way easier as they get older. I've been pumping for 9 months now for the triplets and I hate it. hate it. It never gets easier and it is so annoying. I'm weaning and am down to 2 sessions a day now as of last week because I'm sick of pumping.