We bought our house 11/15. We were told the house had a slab leak and extensive foundation repairs done in 06/15 and would need about a year to settle. They provided 80 pages of documents to support this. Our realtor sent it to her "foundation guy" and he signed off on it.
Well, long story short, the repairs were never done. The sellers lied. We now not only need to repair the slab leak and foundation but all of the tile and hardwood needs to be replaced and there are significant cracks throughout the house that will need to be repaired and repainted.
Do we have any recourse here? I would go to my realtor but since she had her foundation guy sign off on it, I'm wondering if she is in someway responsible, too?
Holy shit. That is outrageous and super ballsy. I cannot believe they provided all that false documentation.
I really hope you have recourse. Surely you would. Our sellers lied about a pipe repair - the main water line from the city supply to our house. They had patched it when it broke and flooded their house (to the tune of needing brand new floors throughout) but it needed to be replaced. They didn't tell us they had had ANY work done on it. And sure enough, 8months in it busted through the patch and we were out a $5K pipe repair. Ugh.
Holy shit. That is outrageous and super ballsy. I cannot believe they provided all that false documentation.
I really hope you have recourse. Surely you would. Our sellers lied about a pipe repair - the main water line from the city supply to our house. They had patched it when it broke and flooded their house (to the tune of needing brand new floors throughout) but it needed to be replaced. They didn't tell us they had had ANY work done on it. And sure enough, 8months in it busted through the patch and we were out a $5K pipe repair. Ugh.
😡 I just don't understand people! I wish I weren't so naive. These people are ministers!
I looked over the paperwork as best as I could but it was sort of a jumble after a while and we had an hour to decide to go under contract or they were going to accept another offer so we jumped. I wish we hadn't. I realize it's ultimately our fault for not having inspected the paperwork more thoroughly.
Did you have a home inspection done? If so, I'd pull out your home inspection report and see what, if anything, was identified in there about the slab leak and/or foundation. And then the inspector would be my first call.
Did you have a home inspection done? If so, I'd pull out your home inspection report and see what, if anything, was identified in there about the slab leak and/or foundation. And then the inspector would be my first call.
Yes, the inspector noted a few cracks but said they were old and likely from the previous repair in 2000.
ETA: I had that company come out and there is a 3" elevation in the center of the home now so slab leak is suspected. I found a structural engineer's report done in 2015 that said he suspected a foundation leak so the previous owners were aware of the issue.
This is why I hate buying a house. You never really know what you're going to find, no matter how good your inspector is. I would never use a whole home inspector again - jack of all trades, master of none.
I'm sorry. I'm not sure if you have legal recourse or not. It might vary by state. I would definitely consult an attorney.
What exactly was the "foundation guy" signing off on? He just saw paperwork, right? It sounds like he is saying that the work mentioned in the paperwork is a reasonable fix for the problems described. It doesn't sound, on the surface, like he or the realtor are to blame.
HOWEVER, if you have any doubts, it seems like a consultation with a RE attorney would be your best bet to sort out who was required to do/disclose what, and who is liable for the fraud, etc.
Did you have a real estate attorney for your closing? They would be my first call. It looks like several people could be involved, so honestly I would start with someone outside of that.
This is why I hate buying a house. You never really know what you're going to find, no matter how good your inspector is. I would never use a whole home inspector again - jack of all trades, master of none.
I'm sorry. I'm not sure if you have legal recourse or not. It might vary by state. I would definitely consult an attorney.
So what would you use? Obviously a plumber, an electrician.. what else?
Did you have a real estate attorney for your closing? They would be my first call. It looks like several people could be involved, so honestly I would start with someone outside of that.
If a RE attorney was used, they may also have a relationship with the realtor, so I would probably find someone who is even further removed -- someone who had no part in the transaction whatsoever and was only accountable to me, with zero conflicts.
Oh good point. There was a RE attourney. He did not personally know my realtor but she does do business regularly with the company. Should I still try to find someone else?
And my realtor said she had the foundation guy look over the documentation that he repairs had supposedly be done and that he was ok with it, but the paperwork was from 2000. The paperwork they provided that the foundation was repaired in 2015 looks like a receipt but it's actually a quote. I didn't realize it until I called them and they said they had not done anything.
This is why I hate buying a house. You never really know what you're going to find, no matter how good your inspector is. I would never use a whole home inspector again - jack of all trades, master of none.
I'm sorry. I'm not sure if you have legal recourse or not. It might vary by state. I would definitely consult an attorney.
So what would you use? Obviously a plumber, an electrician.. what else?
Plumber, electrician, structural engineer (if you're looking at anything built on any kind of hill or with multiple levels), separate HVAC person to inspect the furnace and AC (separate from the plumber who would inspect the main sewer line).
The reality is that home inspectors routinely miss things because they just can't know everything. In our previous home, we had an electrician out to look at something and he told us the electrical panel was not to code. When H expressed surprise, he said that most home inspectors don't go through the recommended training to learn about electrical stuff because it's several days and $$$.
I would use your friends, neighbors, business contacts to find a reputable real estate attorney who was not in any way associated with this transaction and go from there. I would expect you certainly have recourse and it will be worth it to consult with an attorney who can provide you with unbiased advice on how to proceed.
It's not just this, either. When we went for the final walk through, she had painters there spackling the ceiling. She said the roof had a small leak from the rain and that she had it repaired. We asked for all the documentation of the repairs, which they provided but did not detail how the repairs were done. Well they just put spray foam insulation on the OUTSIDE of the roof. So the first day we moved in, it was raining and there was a big puddle in our house. We fixed it but yeah, there is a history of deception.
So what would you use? Obviously a plumber, an electrician.. what else?
Plumber, electrician, structural engineer (if you're looking at anything built on any kind of hill or with multiple levels), separate HVAC person to inspect the furnace and AC (separate from the plumber who would inspect the main sewer line).
The reality is that home inspectors routinely miss things because they just can't know everything. In our previous home, we had an electrician out to look at something and he told us the electrical panel was not to code. When H expressed surprise, he said that most home inspectors don't go through the recommended training to learn about electrical stuff because it's several days and $$$.
Yes, yes, yes. We knew we were going to have to replace the HVAC units sooner rather than later. What we didn't know is that one of the units was leaking carbon monoxide. When the HVAC people found it, they immediately shut off the unit and it had to be replaced. In a neighboring suburb, the houses are older and many are built on cinder blocks and are notorious for having issues, either structural or with water leaking so I'd have a foundation company inspect that. So if there are known issues in your area, I would look for specialists in those areas. Sprinkler system? Have that inspected, as well. Pool? Find a qualified pool installation/repair company inspect.
ETA: I would also want to test every appliance staying with the house. The light didn't work in the fridge so we just assumed it was burnt out. It wasn't - it needed to actually be repaired and only 2 companies in the area even service Sub Zeros. So I wouldn't make any assumptions like we did :/
ETA2: I would also open and close every single window. If you see any wood rot, have that looked at. It wouldn't hurt to have an insulation person check for proper insulation. If we ever buy again, I'm going to be one picky bitch. Lol.
Post by turnipthebeet on Mar 10, 2017 12:07:48 GMT -5
I am so sorry! Reading this with interest because we are selling our older home. To our knowledge there aren't any issues like this, but I live in fear of our buyer finding something and trying to get us to pay for it after the sale. I hope that you are able to get it resolved!
Post by thebreakfastclub on Mar 10, 2017 12:12:29 GMT -5
I am curious, did they sign the seller's disclosure form and indicate that repairs had been completed? I hope you can get some recourse with an attorney.
I am curious, did they sign the seller's disclosure form and indicate that repairs had been completed? I hope you can get some recourse with an attorney.
I have been told that this isn't legally binding - they have to fill it out to the 'best of their knowledge.' So they can basically say whatever they want on the disclosure whether it's true or not. In your case, because it was a very specific issue, I'm hoping you do have recourse.
Also, if anything is found that needs to be addressed, I would use that to negotiate down the price and have your own people do the work. We didn't do that and got royally screwed as the sellers tried to fix the repairs as cheaply as possible.
I am curious, did they sign the seller's disclosure form and indicate that repairs had been completed? I hope you can get some recourse with an attorney.
Post by gilmoregirl on Mar 10, 2017 12:47:35 GMT -5
Oh my gosh! That is awful. Why some people feel the need to lie like this is beyond me. How deceptive and awful. I hope you can get something done about it.
Ok when I looked at the sellers disclosure it said the slab leak was repaired 8/15. I called the company they said did the repair and they said it was done. They also said the foundation was repaired 6/15 but that was not done so they did lie.
Post by mrs.jacinthe on Mar 10, 2017 12:50:52 GMT -5
Get an attorney. Absolutely. I'm not one, but I am a Realtor, and that's absolutely a thing for which I'd expect someone to seek legal recourse. Depending on your state's laws, proceedings can go in a variety of directions, but start with legal advice, from an attorney with no connection to any party in the sale.
How do you know absolutely no repairs were done? Did you have a foundation person come out? Is it possible they fixed the leak but another crack/leak occurred?
I am curious, did they sign the seller's disclosure form and indicate that repairs had been completed? I hope you can get some recourse with an attorney.
I have been told that this isn't legally binding - they have to fill it out to the 'best of their knowledge.' Â So they can basically say whatever they want on the disclosure whether it's true or not. Â In your case, because it was a very specific issue, I'm hoping you do have recourse. Â
Also, if anything is found that needs to be addressed, I would use that to negotiate down the price and have your own people do the work. Â We didn't do that and got royally screwed as the sellers tried to fix the repairs as cheaply as possible.
No, not necessarily true, it can absolutely be binding. There is a difference between not knowing you had a foundation issue and being aware of the issue, hiring a foundation company and submitting an 80 page report that it was fixed.
Ok my realtor has emails stating the foundation repairs were done. The foundation repair company said they only came out for an estimate but no work was performed. The sellers disclosure says only that an inspection was done.
The real estate attorney said the emails should be sufficient to pursue litigation and that we should send demands for payment to the sellers and the sellers broker as long as we didn't waive our rights at closing so i am contacting my realtor to see if she sees anything of the sort in the closing paperwork.
Holy shit. That is outrageous and super ballsy. I cannot believe they provided all that false documentation.
I really hope you have recourse. Surely you would. Our sellers lied about a pipe repair - the main water line from the city supply to our house. They had patched it when it broke and flooded their house (to the tune of needing brand new floors throughout) but it needed to be replaced. They didn't tell us they had had ANY work done on it. And sure enough, 8months in it busted through the patch and we were out a $5K pipe repair. Ugh.
😡 I just don't understand people! I wish I weren't so naive. These people are ministers!
I looked over the paperwork as best as I could but it was sort of a jumble after a while and we had an hour to decide to go under contract or they were going to accept another offer so we jumped. I wish we hadn't. I realize it's ultimately our fault for not having inspected the paperwork more thoroughly.
Ok my realtor has emails stating the foundation repairs were done. The foundation repair company said they only came out for an estimate but no work was performed. The sellers disclosure says only that an inspection was done.
The real estate attorney said the emails should be sufficient to pursue litigation and that we should send demands for payment to the sellers and the sellers broker as long as we didn't waive our rights at closing so i am contacting my realtor to see if she sees anything of the sort in the closing paperwork.
Jesus! I am so angry on your behalf - I hope this gets resolved to your benefit.
Post by itsmyparty on Mar 10, 2017 16:16:56 GMT -5
I'll give you my POV and experience as a broker, though things can vary from state to state so you should def. talk to a local RE attorney...
It sounds like the sellers disclosed the foundation crack on their disclosure, and that it had been discovered during an inspection. I'm guessing the 80-page report that was submitted to you was the inspection report, quotes, etc? You said the paperwork itself didn't say anything about the repair actually being completed, right?
In my state although emails become part of the client/transaction file, the signed contract still reigns supreme. And "let the buyer beware" also set in case law in most states. Basically, if they disclosed AT ALL that there were foundation issues in the past on the seller disclosure form, it is *your burden* to investigate it to your satisfaction. That means hiring your own inspector (foundation specialist) to come out to the house and verify if and what kinds of repairs were done.
If the paperwork the sellers provided you states that the repairs were completed, not just found in inspection, you might have a case. But if their documents did not state that the repairs were completed, I think you may be out of luck. This is what inspections and inspection contingencies/extensions are for. It totally sucks, but it's one of the reasons I ask for the seller disclosure form even before making an offer on a property - some property damage history is not worth the risk, and others need plenty of time to investigate to alleviate fears.