H and I may have the opportunity to move in a year or 2. The country is sort of our oyster, and we could wind up anywhere from Bozeman MT to Tupelo MS. I already told him that if it's anywhere hot, I'll give up urban living to get a house in the suburbs with a pool.
I think that's why this question is so interesting... moving anywhere, completely unencumbered. H has enough of a transferable tech skill that he can get work in many, many places.
It's fascinating. Places I've never considered before. Houses I've never considered before. Lifestyles I've never considered before.
right now, I'm looking at Allbuquerque. Â It seems to tick all the marks of coolness, affordability, etc... but sooooo different (visually) from Seattle
Funny enough, I'm actually somewhat interested in Albuquerque! I think the biggest drawback is that it's a bit geographically isolated.
I think Pittsburgh is toward the top of my list, but again, it's a bit geographically isolated (less so than ABQ, though). Other places were interested in: Columbus, Cleveland, San Antonio, Baltimore, Jackson MS, Birmingham AL, Chattanooga TN. Kind of random, I know. Dallas was higher on my list before my mom moved to another state. I still think I'd put it on there. It's huge and sprawly and I hate the traffic, but I'm pretty comfortable there. Ideally, rather than working in the downtown office, I'd want to work in the office that's on the northeast side of the city and live in a nearby suburb where I could buy a house with a pool and have a 20-minute commute.
One thing that is interesting to me about Dallas (I mention it because it's what I know, but I suspect it holds true in some other southern areas as well) is how the suburbs are often more diverse than the suburbs in the Midwest. I think there is one suburb in my area that is "only" 88 percent white while the rest are 90 and often 95 percent white. Meanwhile there are suburbs in the Dallas area that are closer to 60 percent white with large Asian and Latino and not insignificant black populations. I had classes in HS with more Asian kids in them than white kids. That wouldn't happen where I live now.
When I look at what we could buy in/near my hometown (outside of Springfield, but you knew that) it makes me all weepy.
I mean, I know the drill there. I know how it all works.Â
But, man, I think I'm done with winters like that.Â
Hmm. Then at least half the places I named are probably off the list. The thing with L/MCOL is that you generally have to put up with shit weather for at least part of the year. It's just a matter of whether you prefer harsh winters or summers.
Winters in Milwaukee can be BRUTAL. This year actually wasn't bad at all, IMO. But the year when we had to start dumping snow in Lake Michigan because we ran out of places to put it and municipalities were running out of road salt was pretty tough. Summers, OTOH, are glorious. GLOOOOORRRRRRRIOUS.
When I look at what we could buy in/near my hometown (outside of Springfield, but you knew that) it makes me all weepy.
I mean, I know the drill there. I know how it all works.
But, man, I think I'm done with winters like that.
Hmm. Then at least half the places I named are probably off the list. The thing with L/MCOL is that you generally have to put up with shit weather for at least part of the year. It's just a matter of whether you prefer harsh winters or summers.
Winters in Milwaukee can be BRUTAL. This year actually wasn't bad at all, IMO. But the year when we had to start dumping snow in Lake Michigan because we ran out of places to put it and municipalities were running out of road salt was pretty tough. Summers, OTOH, are glorious. GLOOOOORRRRRRRIOUS.
H and I are both from New England, and he lived in Ohio before moving out here (I came directly) so we know from brutal weather.
That'll be one of (if not THE) biggest real-life problem moving from here, I think. We've become weather wimps. Anything below 50 is cold. Anything above 80 is sweltering.
And my kids are worse. It's been in the mid-50's lately here (for some reason spring is NOT COMING THIS YEAR) and DD is still wearing her down knee-length coat to school every day.
this thread has me thinking about it all. Like, man, as much as some of these places look fantastic, I honestly think I may well not want to live somewhere with brutal winters ever again. Not having to deal with ass-high piles of snow is just so damn pleasant.
Hmm. Then at least half the places I named are probably off the list. The thing with L/MCOL is that you generally have to put up with shit weather for at least part of the year. It's just a matter of whether you prefer harsh winters or summers.
Winters in Milwaukee can be BRUTAL. This year actually wasn't bad at all, IMO. But the year when we had to start dumping snow in Lake Michigan because we ran out of places to put it and municipalities were running out of road salt was pretty tough. Summers, OTOH, are glorious. GLOOOOORRRRRRRIOUS.
H and I are both from New England, and he lived in Ohio before moving out here (I came directly) so we know from brutal weather.
That'll be one of (if not THE) biggest real-life problem moving from here, I think. We've become weather wimps. Anything below 50 is cold. Anything above 80 is sweltering. Â
And my kids are worse. It's been in the mid-50's lately here (for some reason spring is NOT COMING THIS YEAR) and DD is still wearing her down knee-length coat to school every day.
this thread has me thinking about it all. Like, man, as much as some of these places look fantastic, I honestly think I may well not want to live somewhere with brutal winters ever again. Not having to deal with ass-high piles of snow is just so damn pleasant.
...but I'm also not heat-tolerant. so...Â
I do think you can learn to adapt. I grew up in a place with pretty brutal summers and mild winters. My first year at college in the northeast, I would call my parents and be like Gob Bluth: "I've made a huge mistake." LOL. By my senior year, I was shoveling snow in a t-shirt. And just the thought of Texas summers makes me melt. But I'm sure if we moved somewhere warm, I'd get used to it again. The first few years would be tough, though, for sure.
mominatrix we're in Federal Way and we just bought a new house. The market is crazy. Every house we've seen has gone on the market on Friday and sold by Tuesday for 20-30k over asking. In Federal Way. We ended up in Auburn.
If we were to move it would be to Montana or NC. I would really miss being so close to the ocean in Montana and real mountains in NC. Seattle is just too perfect in that aspect.
When I look at what we could buy in/near my hometown (outside of Springfield, but you knew that) it makes me all weepy.
I mean, I know the drill there. I know how it all works.
But, man, I think I'm done with winters like that.
I just looked up my childhood home. Zillow says it is worth $205k, but the property taxes are more than what I pay on my current home which is worth significantly more.
I went to college in Pittsburgh and loved it there. The weather sucks, though. I have a few friends who live in Richmond and I could totally live there. It's such an awesome small, thriving city.
Are you fucking kidding me? Â I know you're not fucking kidding me, but half a mil for 1000 sq ft (I had to double check that I read that correctly!). Nope. Â That's a fucking joke. Â
that's the SF Bay Area too .. not just SF or SJ proper but anything within 30-45 mins of SF. Townhomes by me 45-60 mins due east - 1500 sf 3/2 are selling upwards of 500k 😢😲
Anyone say Michigan yet? metro Detroit or Ann Arbor. Caveat: its cold as hell in the winter, but cost of housing is somewhat reasonable. Close to the Great lakes, so lots of recreation.
AA is my go to LCOL place should I ever want to pull the trigger and leave SF (knowing full well I'll never be able to return to CA bc I'll be priced out of it 😢😢😢) even though my stepmom and sister think AA is 'pricey' it's still WAY cheaper than SF
Are you fucking kidding me? I know you're not fucking kidding me, but half a mil for 1000 sq ft (I had to double check that I read that correctly!). Nope. That's a fucking joke.
AND it's ugly!
Although who the hell am I to talk? We live in Alexandria VA, so VHCOL. That house would probably go for the same price in this area also.
Anyone say Michigan yet? metro Detroit or Ann Arbor. Caveat: its cold as hell in the winter, but cost of housing is somewhat reasonable. Close to the Great lakes, so lots of recreation.
Just north of Detroit (along Woodward Ave) are a couple of towns that you might be interested in. Ferndale is the larger of the 2, but just next to Ferndale is a small town called Pleasant Ridge. Lots of historic homes. Most were built in the 1920's and 30's. They range from $250-$1millon.
Ferndale is known for being liberal, probably second only to Ann Arbor in MI. It was actually kind of a Bernie bastion in this past election cycle. Has been LGBTQ friendly for a long time. Rallies in support of the local PP clinic. Ferndale itself and the Ferndale school district are pretty diverse economically and racially, Pleasant Ridge not so much. PR also feeds into Ferndale schools, but is less diverse overall (many PR families do private schools). The schools are a whole other, long story.
I think that's why this question is so interesting... moving anywhere, completely unencumbered. H has enough of a transferable tech skill that he can get work in many, many places.
It's fascinating. Places I've never considered before. Houses I've never considered before. Lifestyles I've never considered before.
right now, I'm looking at Allbuquerque. It seems to tick all the marks of coolness, affordability, etc... but sooooo different (visually) from Seattle
Funny enough, I'm actually somewhat interested in Albuquerque! I think the biggest drawback is that it's a bit geographically isolated.
I think Pittsburgh is toward the top of my list, but again, it's a bit geographically isolated (less so than ABQ, though). Other places were interested in: Columbus, Cleveland, San Antonio, Baltimore, Jackson MS, Birmingham AL, Chattanooga TN. Kind of random, I know. Dallas was higher on my list before my mom moved to another state. I still think I'd put it on there. It's huge and sprawly and I hate the traffic, but I'm pretty comfortable there. Ideally, rather than working in the downtown office, I'd want to work in the office that's on the northeast side of the city and live in a nearby suburb where I could buy a house with a pool and have a 20-minute commute.
One thing that is interesting to me about Dallas (I mention it because it's what I know, but I suspect it holds true in some other southern areas as well) is how the suburbs are often more diverse than the suburbs in the Midwest. I think there is one suburb in my area that is "only" 88 percent white while the rest are 90 and often 95 percent white. Meanwhile there are suburbs in the Dallas area that are closer to 60 percent white with large Asian and Latino and not insignificant black populations. I had classes in HS with more Asian kids in them than white kids. That wouldn't happen where I live now.
Please don't think I'm a creeper but based on things you have said about the town where you grew up I might be living there now. It's a wonderful place to raise a family and I'm very happy that we chose to settle here when we bought our house. While the cost of living and traffic have changed over the last decade it's still a very affordable and convenient place to live. Prices have risen sharply over the last couple of years but it's still possible to get a nice 3 bed/2 bath house for under $300K if you're ok with being in some of the older and less fancy parts of town. The school are strong across the board and even our "worst" schools are providing a solid education. We have a huge network of parks with a small one located in most neighborhoods, an extensive trail system with two nature preserves on either side of town, great rec facilities, and a great multi branch library system. It's more affordable than Dallas proper but all the good stuff like museums, zoo, arboretum, fancy shopping and restaurants are about a 30ish minute drive away outside of peak traffic times. The city is also working to create it's own small arts district in town and there's a great selection of small family owned restaurants, especially if you love Tex Mex, Chinese, and Indian food. Most of the tech jobs are located on the north end of the Metroplex and we have a strong and growing job market.
It's not all sunshine and bluebonnets up there, though. This is still Texas and while Dallas is very blue the northern suburbs are more of a magenta region. It's slowly changing but you will have to put in the work to find your liberal community up here. There's still a strong Conservative Christian and fucking gun culture and those people tend to advertise it heavily and loudly. This whole area has exploded from a collection of bedroom communities and suburbs to a full fledged job center and we're having some growing pains. There's been a lot of road construction which is making traffic worse as we are trying to update our infrastructure to accommodate our population boom. I'm watching our local elections closely because there seems to be a three way race between the old school moderate Republicans who have been doing a fairly good job with the city, non labeled Democrats, and a RWNJ contingent who's main platform is to stop allowing apartment complexes to be built to keep our area "suburban" and "not turn into Dallas" with "city problems". Normally I'm not all that fussed about local elections but in our Trumpian reality these people worry me. Our property taxes, insurance, and energy costs are high (summer electric bills are brutal!) and can add a lot onto the carrying cost of a home. The real estate market is brutal as the sub $350K market is very difficult and rents are high. There's not a whole lot of natural beauty to the area and it's hot as hell in the summer but the winters are mild and we have lots of bright sunny days to get out and enjoy parks and patios in the spring and fall. Despite these things it's home and I can't forsee any reason why my family would leave.
greeneggs, sounds like the same place. Interestingly, Nate Silver did an analysis about education and percentage change in the R vs. D vote from 2012 to 2016. You're in one of the 50 most educated counties in the country, and while Trump still won, there was a MASSIVE swing toward Clinton. I think it was a 14 percent increase over Obama's share of the vote.
I think the voting patterns will be very different in a generation. I also wonder how many residents are ineligible to vote. While the area has more diversity than most people expect, I do wonder how many people are non-citizen immigrants. I had a lot of friends in school who were the first generation to be born in America. I have no idea how many of their parents are citizens vs. permanent residents. I legitimately have no idea because I wasn't in the habit of asking my friends about their parents' immigration status. But that could definitely make a difference in voting patterns.
Post by downtoearth on Apr 24, 2017 10:28:11 GMT -5
I'd suggest MT, because we moved to get out of the driving and crazy expansion with lots of traffic of Denver area, but after looking at some of these other options, I think your DH could make more money in IT in these other areas and buy a house for quite a bit cheaper. Our house is far from finished and it was around $220k 5 years ago - needs work in every room still. Plus just looked and every house under $280k is pretty much under contract within a day or two for our walkable areas of the city (in-town near the mountains), so I guess the market is different then even 5 years ago. Oh and flying family in/out of MT is way more expensive, so even if you're two states closer, it's not cheaper.
But I also own a tiny house in Denver metro area (went from <$200k purchase in 2005 to >$350k estimate now) and so if you want to ever want to talk about how you can have two FHA mortgages if you move a good distance for work and how to keep your house as a rental to even get more equity, I'd chat. I'm not an expert, but we decided we'd get more benefit in the long run from that.
And it's sort of fun to have a tour of the US with people suggesting certain areas and real estate listings.
Wow this thread is long, I was sure there must be drama.
I came in just to yell PITTSBURGH! Lots of techy stuff going on here, it's an amazing place to live, and there are really nice areas where you can easily buy in that range.
Move an hour and half further south to Richmond! It's a whole new world (very little traffic and much more progressive than it was even 10 years ago). There are a few companies here that pay DC salaries because they have offices in both DC and RVA but employees can choose where to live.
that actually was a talking point for a bit when H worked at COF. but his was the "D.C. face" of his team that was down there so there was no way they were letting him relocate. and then they eventually just transferred his team up here, and eventually he left.
what other major tech companies are down there? I went to college there and hated it, but you're right, it seems much different now and my friends who live there seem to absolutely adore it. and the houses are soooo cute!!
Capital One is probably the biggest - tons of data scientists and innovative tech stuff there. I was just at an event on Friday where they're prepping to teach Middle School girls to code Amazon Echo dots. There is also WestRock - I have engineer friends there - DuPont, Dominion - www.grpva.com/data-and-downloads/employers/top-private-employers/
I guess it comes down to what kind of tech.
(And now I am dying to know where you went to college!)
I know a couple of people who moved to Pittsburgh for tech jobs and the LCOL. They really like it.
This was going to be my suggestion. Depending on the neighborhood housing is super affordable. Public schools are pretty solid too. But that can vary based on neighborhood
I've always loved northwest Arkansas- Fayetteville area. Much more progressive and lively than the rest of the state and there's so much to do in Arkansas if you enjoy the outdoors.
We are under contract for a house in this area and are moving from Seattle. Agree with this for sure.
Capital One is probably the biggest - tons of data scientists and innovative tech stuff there. I was just at an event on Friday where they're prepping to teach Middle School girls to code Amazon Echo dots. There is also WestRock - I have engineer friends there - DuPont, Dominion - www.grpva.com/data-and-downloads/employers/top-private-employers/
I guess it comes down to what kind of tech.
(And now I am dying to know where you went to college!)
yeah, I don't think he wants to go back to COF lol. but one of my bestest friends is there and I would love to move near her. as it is, we actually tend to look more at loving into DC up here bc we crave more urban living than suburban. I guess we must never want to own a home haha.
and I was a ram. Richmond was just not what I expected when I got there. I thought "city!" and at least then it was...not. at least not the kind of city I was hoping for, although I admit a lot of that was college growing pains.
Ha! Because I'm an idiot, I didn't think of COF as Cap One. My H left it and came back, which has been an interesting experience. And yeah, I think the ram experience would be a tough one. It has morphed pretty dramatically in the last decade (don't know when you left). We live in the city, but a more suburban part of it (single-family homes).
Rochester, NY. Small liberal city with a great tech/STEM scene thanks to two major universities (RIT and University of Rochester.) Lots of microbreweries, family-friendly (we're home to the Strong National Museum of Play), and no traffic. There's a saying that you can get anywhere in the Rochester area in 20 minutes. A 1500 sq ft 3 bd 1.5 bath will cost 100-180k depending on the neighborhood and how updated it is. I went to college here, moved to Portland, OR for two years, and missed the COL, prevalent sarcasm, and easy commute so much I moved back.
We live here too What neighborhood do you guys live in? We're in Brighton.
We're in Greece. I'm jealous you're in Brighton! That was our top area when we were house hunting, but inventory seems to be perpetually low. DH loves to tell people about the Brighton house with the secret passage that we waited too long to put an offer on.