Chaffetz wants a housing stipend for Congress

[VillainV]

Jun 27, 2017 20:01:00 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

I can see why the cost may keep the less wealthy from running. As a compromise, they could run similar to the military- on base is free, off base you're on your own.

I can see it now - welcome to Barracks "Obama" 😂

Um, that's not how military housing allowance works. We get a monthly housing allowance depending on the zip code where we work, and whether or not we have dependents. If we choose to live on base, the whole housing allowance gets taken away. If we choose to live off base we get the entire allowance, whether we use it all or not (this is in the continental US, overseas and Alaska/Hawaii are a little different).

I'd have to look up BAH for that zip code, but it sounds similar to what a military officer would make for housing allowance in DC.

ETA: I looked it up -- as a mid-range officer with dependents I'd get just over $3000/mo if I worked in 20001 (US Capital). I don't make anywhere near $174k/year though. A General would make about $3200/month.

ETA 2: I agree that this is tone-deaf when threatening to take away people's healthcare and when so many Americans are struggling to survive. And when so many of these individuals come from wealthy families as it is.

[seeyalater52]

The cost of housing in DC and transport to and from is not what skews the composition of Congress toward wealthy individuals. He can get out of there with that.

There are so many factors that actually do cause a barrier for regular people to run for and serve in Congress that he and his GOP colleagues are completely uninterested in addressing so he gets a hard pass on this nonsense.

[rupertpenny]

I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the first one is just LOL.

He needs $2500 a month per rent? How exactly does he expect his staff assistants, who probably make $25k a year to live? $2500 is more than they make in a month.

Let's worry about staffer, who CANNOT sleep in the office, before we start subsidizing the rent of members.

[ECB]

Jun 27, 2017 16:18:08 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

So they (many) don't support a living wage but want a housing stiped on top of $175,000?

Cry me a fucking river.

The only way I'd be down with housing is if it was a dorm type thing like service members who are geo bacheloring.

so many people can't afford to pay their ONLY rent or mortgage, and probably in not-so-expensive areas, and he wants help on a 2nd payment when you know most of these congressmen live in really nice houses in really nice neighborhoods.

I just can't get it up for this.

[cookiemdough]

Jun 27, 2017 12:52:04 GMT -5 okla said:

Jun 27, 2017 11:29:53 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Do we really think people are choosing not to run for congress because they are concerned about housing? Because the millionaire thing starts way before that given the costs people now incur to run a campaign.

They can't have better healthcare, a housing allowance and whatever other perks while making exponentially more than the American people and claim regular Americans are the ones that have to go without basic necessities to fund it. Nope.

When they are the average American then maybe it is a worthwhile discussion but in our current economic environment? Nope.

Did I say nope? Just wanted to make sure my views were heard lol. 😊

I can't speak to federal positions, but I know people in my state who want to but can't/won't run for state house or senate because they can't afford the pay cut and/or their current job isn't one that is flexible to allow them to take the time off to serve and still make an income. Hell, I'm one of them. 

I think $174K is a plenty of money and I think Chaffetz is an idiot and tone deaf as fuck about this right now. But I don't think the overarching theme of us needing to make the system accessible to non-millionaires is a bad one. 

That theme is definitely not a bad one but it is not what is being addressed by a $2500 monthly stipend on top of a $174k salary at the federal level. Whatever challenges are at the state level have nothing to do with this bill.

[tessalb]

Sean Duffy must be organizing Chaffetz's going-away party.

www.google.com/amp/s/thinkprogress.org/amp/p/a717019b8e7c

Sorry, but when you are making 4x+ my income, I have no fucks to give you when you complain about housing in DC. And I have it pretty damn good. What about folks across this country who can't afford rent because they work minimum wage jobs? Where's their stipend? And coming on the heels of the healthcare disaster? Maybe Chaffetz is trying to destroy the party from within, but I think it's more likely that he's a vapid, selfish dipshit.

[sofamonkey]

Jun 28, 2017 6:12:54 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Jun 27, 2017 20:01:00 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

I can see why the cost may keep the less wealthy from running. As a compromise, they could run similar to the military- on base is free, off base you're on your own.

I can see it now - welcome to Barracks "Obama" 😂

Um, that's not how military housing allowance works. We get a monthly housing allowance depending on the zip code where we work, and whether or not we have dependents. If we choose to live on base, the whole housing allowance gets taken away. If we choose to live off base we get the entire allowance, whether we use it all or not (this is in the continental US, overseas and Alaska/Hawaii are a little different).

I'd have to look up BAH for that zip code, but it sounds similar to what a military officer would make for housing allowance in DC.

ETA: I looked it up -- as a mid-range officer with dependents I'd get just over $3000/mo if I worked in 20001 (US Capital). I don't make anywhere near $174k/year though. A General would make about $3200/month.

ETA 2: I agree that this is tone-deaf when threatening to take away people's healthcare and when so many Americans are struggling to survive. And when so many of these individuals come from wealthy families as it is.

Yes, I know. But that's true for officers. What about just plain old enlisted folks? I digress. 

Anyway, I know I was off on facts. I beg forgiveness for the sake of Barracks "Obama" 

[andwhat]

Jun 28, 2017 8:39:57 GMT -5 @mx said:

For example's sake you can rent a 1 bedroom in this fancy building in a trendy neighborhood for $2200: www.zillow.com/homedetails/2094467420_zpid/

That is more than nice enough for a part time residence and you could go significantly smaller/more downmarket in neighborhoods without sacrificing safety or convenience. We rent our basement studio for $1000/month. But I don't want Chaffetz living in my house under any circumstances.

You don't even have to go that far from the Hill.


www.apartments.com/capitol-hill-washington-dc/

[fortnightlily]

I'd be in favor of the stipend maybe if we changed the salary of a given Congressman or Senator to match the median income of their constituency.

[morecoffeeplease]

Jun 28, 2017 8:19:04 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

Jun 28, 2017 6:12:54 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Um, that's not how military housing allowance works. We get a monthly housing allowance depending on the zip code where we work, and whether or not we have dependents. If we choose to live on base, the whole housing allowance gets taken away. If we choose to live off base we get the entire allowance, whether we use it all or not (this is in the continental US, overseas and Alaska/Hawaii are a little different).

I'd have to look up BAH for that zip code, but it sounds similar to what a military officer would make for housing allowance in DC.

ETA: I looked it up -- as a mid-range officer with dependents I'd get just over $3000/mo if I worked in 20001 (US Capital). I don't make anywhere near $174k/year though. A General would make about $3200/month.

ETA 2: I agree that this is tone-deaf when threatening to take away people's healthcare and when so many Americans are struggling to survive. And when so many of these individuals come from wealthy families as it is.

Yes, I know. But that's true for officers. What about just plain old enlisted folks? I digress. 

Anyway, I know I was off on facts. I beg forgiveness for the sake of Barracks "Obama" 

We do get a housing allowance but it's for one residence. So if my spouse had to go alone somewhere else, he would be responsible for the other rent or cost of housing or whatever


"When considering geographic bachelor-ing, assume that the service member will receive BAH for their duty location and that the family will be supporting two households on their regular income."


paycheck-chronicles.military.com/2014/02/10/geographic-bachelor-ing/

[alexis]

Jun 28, 2017 8:57:44 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

I'd be in favor of the stipend maybe if we changed the salary of a given Congressman or Senator to match the median income of their constituency.

This is an interesting idea. Might cause them to take the economy of their area more seriously. Hey, a lot of them support merit based pay for teachers. Why not for congressmen?

It isn't only campaign finance keeping the non-wealthy out. I used to have a family member that was in local politics. It hadn't occurred to me before how stressful it is to have to campaign to keep your job every couple years. He eventually got out of it because it proved to be too unstable in providing for his family.

If your job has you reapplying every few years with a real possibility you won't be keeping it, you have to have a really good personal safety net to fall back on. The wealthy are far more likely to have that and be able to run.

[sushi]

Jun 28, 2017 9:14:45 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Jun 28, 2017 8:19:04 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

Yes, I know. But that's true for officers. What about just plain old enlisted folks? I digress. 

Anyway, I know I was off on facts. I beg forgiveness for the sake of Barracks "Obama" 

We do get a housing allowance but it's for one residence. So if my spouse had to go alone somewhere else, he would be responsible for the other rent or cost of housing or whatever


"When considering geographic bachelor-ing, assume that the service member will receive BAH for their duty location and that the family will be supporting two households on their regular income."


paycheck-chronicles.military.com/2014/02/10/geographic-bachelor-ing/

Not true. If he goes somewhere that doesn't permit spouses, you both get bah/ova.

Geographic bach refers to the choice to live separately. Things like family staying behind to finish a school year or job. My spouse going to a particular Korea base with no command sponsorship? I stayed where i was and got full w dependent bah.

[cookiemdough]

Jun 28, 2017 10:26:02 GMT -5 alexis said:

Jun 28, 2017 8:57:44 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

I'd be in favor of the stipend maybe if we changed the salary of a given Congressman or Senator to match the median income of their constituency.

This is an interesting idea. Might cause them to take the economy of their area more seriously. Hey, a lot of them support merit based pay for teachers. Why not for congressmen?

It isn't only campaign finance keeping the non-wealthy out. I used to have a family member that was in local politics. It hadn't occurred to me before how stressful it is to have to campaign to keep your job every couple years. He eventually got out of it because it proved to be too unstable in providing for his family.

If your job has you reapplying every few years with a real possibility you won't be keeping it, you have to have a really good personal safety net to fall back on. The wealthy are far more likely to have that and be able to run.

Outside of certain government jobs does anybody have a lot of job security, especially jobs that have no union involvement? It is not that these are not real life concerns, they are, but I struggle at how these concerns are much different than what other people experience

[VillainV]

Jun 28, 2017 8:19:04 GMT -5 sofamonkey said:

Jun 28, 2017 6:12:54 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Um, that's not how military housing allowance works. We get a monthly housing allowance depending on the zip code where we work, and whether or not we have dependents. If we choose to live on base, the whole housing allowance gets taken away. If we choose to live off base we get the entire allowance, whether we use it all or not (this is in the continental US, overseas and Alaska/Hawaii are a little different).

I'd have to look up BAH for that zip code, but it sounds similar to what a military officer would make for housing allowance in DC.

ETA: I looked it up -- as a mid-range officer with dependents I'd get just over $3000/mo if I worked in 20001 (US Capital). I don't make anywhere near $174k/year though. A General would make about $3200/month.

ETA 2: I agree that this is tone-deaf when threatening to take away people's healthcare and when so many Americans are struggling to survive. And when so many of these individuals come from wealthy families as it is.

Yes, I know. But that's true for officers. What about just plain old enlisted folks? I digress. 

Anyway, I know I was off on facts. I beg forgiveness for the sake of Barracks "Obama" 

It's true for everyone, officer and enlisted. Enlisted don't make as much for housing allowance though, which is shitty.

And "Barracks" Obama made me LOL. Twice.

[alexis]

Jun 28, 2017 10:46:26 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Jun 28, 2017 10:26:02 GMT -5 alexis said:

This is an interesting idea. Might cause them to take the economy of their area more seriously. Hey, a lot of them support merit based pay for teachers. Why not for congressmen?

It isn't only campaign finance keeping the non-wealthy out. I used to have a family member that was in local politics. It hadn't occurred to me before how stressful it is to have to campaign to keep your job every couple years. He eventually got out of it because it proved to be too unstable in providing for his family.

If your job has you reapplying every few years with a real possibility you won't be keeping it, you have to have a really good personal safety net to fall back on. The wealthy are far more likely to have that and be able to run.

Outside of certain government jobs does anybody have a lot of job security, especially jobs that have no union involvement? It is not that these are not real life concerns, they are, but I struggle at how these concerns are much different than what other people experience

No one is guaranteed their job, but people don't generally need to reapply and interview for their jobs over and over and over again. Many people work at the same job or company for many years.

My family member would win an election, work for a couple of years and then lose an election. Then win another election, work and lose,... If you don't have a pile of money to land on and you can do something more stable then it's not surprising to choose to get out of politics.

This is not to say I think we should guarantee our elected officials their jobs. We absolutely shouldn't, but I can see how this would contribute to mainly the wealthy running for office.

[andwhat]

Jun 28, 2017 10:46:26 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Jun 28, 2017 10:26:02 GMT -5 alexis said:

This is an interesting idea. Might cause them to take the economy of their area more seriously. Hey, a lot of them support merit based pay for teachers. Why not for congressmen?

It isn't only campaign finance keeping the non-wealthy out. I used to have a family member that was in local politics. It hadn't occurred to me before how stressful it is to have to campaign to keep your job every couple years. He eventually got out of it because it proved to be too unstable in providing for his family.

If your job has you reapplying every few years with a real possibility you won't be keeping it, you have to have a really good personal safety net to fall back on. The wealthy are far more likely to have that and be able to run.

Outside of certain government jobs does anybody have a lot of job security, especially jobs that have no union involvement? It is not that these are not real life concerns, they are, but I struggle at how these concerns are much different than what other people experience

Jesse Jackson Jr. used to make his staff re-apply every time he was up for election. He said if his job was on the line, so were theirs. 

[seeyalater52]

Jun 28, 2017 11:49:11 GMT -5 alexis said:

Jun 28, 2017 10:46:26 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Outside of certain government jobs does anybody have a lot of job security, especially jobs that have no union involvement? It is not that these are not real life concerns, they are, but I struggle at how these concerns are much different than what other people experience

No one is guaranteed their job, but people don't generally need to reapply and interview for their jobs over and over and over again. Many people work at the same job or company for many years.

My family member would win an election, work for a couple of years and then lose an election. Then win another election, work and lose,... If you don't have a pile of money to land on and you can do something more stable then it's not surprising to choose to get out of politics.

This is not to say I think we should guarantee our elected officials their jobs. We absolutely shouldn't, but I can see how this would contribute to mainly the wealthy running for office.

Also many people at all levels of elected office have to put up a pretty substantial portion of their own personal money to fund their election and re-election campaign.

And realistically, most people in Congress have held some sort of elected position before at a lower level of government. Which typically pay like crap and require a huge time commitment for both the term itself as well as for securing re-election. In many cases you have to either be independently wealthy and not need to work a normal job for income or have a really really flexible job where you can miss work time pretty regularly during at least some portion of the year.

All of these are barriers to regular folks serving in Congress and none of them are addressed by the housing stipend proposal.

[alexis]

Jun 28, 2017 12:10:56 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 28, 2017 11:49:11 GMT -5 alexis said:

No one is guaranteed their job, but people don't generally need to reapply and interview for their jobs over and over and over again. Many people work at the same job or company for many years.

My family member would win an election, work for a couple of years and then lose an election. Then win another election, work and lose,... If you don't have a pile of money to land on and you can do something more stable then it's not surprising to choose to get out of politics.

This is not to say I think we should guarantee our elected officials their jobs. We absolutely shouldn't, but I can see how this would contribute to mainly the wealthy running for office.

Also many people at all levels of elected office have to put up a pretty substantial portion of their own personal money to fund their election and re-election campaign.

And realistically, most people in Congress have held some sort of elected position before at a lower level of government. Which typically pay like crap and require a huge time commitment for both the term itself as well as for securing re-election. In many cases you have to either be independently wealthy and not need to work a normal job for income or have a really really flexible job where you can miss work time pretty regularly during at least some portion of the year.

All of these are barriers to regular folks serving in Congress and none of them are addressed by the housing stipend proposal.

Exactly. My family member wanted to make it to Congress, but he didn't have the capital to work his way up even through the local scene.

[morecoffeeplease]

Jun 28, 2017 10:42:57 GMT -5 sushi said:

Jun 28, 2017 9:14:45 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

We do get a housing allowance but it's for one residence. So if my spouse had to go alone somewhere else, he would be responsible for the other rent or cost of housing or whatever


"When considering geographic bachelor-ing, assume that the service member will receive BAH for their duty location and that the family will be supporting two households on their regular income."


paycheck-chronicles.military.com/2014/02/10/geographic-bachelor-ing/

Not true. If he goes somewhere that doesn't permit spouses, you both get bah/ova.

Geographic bach refers to the choice to live separately. Things like family staying behind to finish a school year or job. My spouse going to a particular Korea base with no command sponsorship? I stayed where i was and got full w dependent bah.

Thank you for this. I guess I was more looking at it like geo bachelor because the spouse are allowed to come. I guess there isn't a good analogy though because, either way, they have to travel to dc or home to their offices for days at a time.

I'm still against the extra $2500 a month.

[sushi]

Jun 28, 2017 13:04:50 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Jun 28, 2017 10:42:57 GMT -5 sushi said:

Not true. If he goes somewhere that doesn't permit spouses, you both get bah/ova.

Geographic bach refers to the choice to live separately. Things like family staying behind to finish a school year or job. My spouse going to a particular Korea base with no command sponsorship? I stayed where i was and got full w dependent bah.

Thank you for this. I guess I was more looking at it like geo bachelor because the spouse are allowed to come. I guess there isn't a good analogy though because, either way, they have to travel to dc or home to their offices for days at a time.

I'm still against the extra $2500 a month.

My h travels roughly 50% of the time, usually visiting multiple locations in 1 trip, and gets per diem. That's probably a better mil comparison for having a home base/ bah while having to work elsewhere. He also doesn't get 175k even if you add a very high bah. (Last 3 locations are la, dc, hi... some of the highest) lol at 175k+ another 30k.

So while I'm not unsympathetic to the costs of work travel. A) The timing and optics are awful and b) it doesn't have to be that high.

[penguingrrl]

Part of why a $175K salary is justifiable for these public servants is that it's supposed to help carry the expense of having to travel between your home district and D.C., no?

[morecoffeeplease]

Jun 28, 2017 13:57:34 GMT -5 sushi said:

Jun 28, 2017 13:04:50 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Thank you for this. I guess I was more looking at it like geo bachelor because the spouse are allowed to come. I guess there isn't a good analogy though because, either way, they have to travel to dc or home to their offices for days at a time.

I'm still against the extra $2500 a month.

My h travels roughly 50% of the time, usually visiting multiple locations in 1 trip, and gets per diem. That's probably a better mil comparison for having a home base/ bah while having to work elsewhere. He also doesn't get 175k even if you add a very high bah. (Last 3 locations are la, dc, hi... some of the highest) lol at 175k+ another 30k.

So while I'm not unsympathetic to the costs of work travel. A) The timing and optics are awful and b) it doesn't have to be that high.

We are in dc now and I was calculating how much less than $175,000 we get with the bah included. Lol

[WanderingWinoZ]

[hopecounts]

Jun 28, 2017 15:07:39 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

Shocked (not)

[alexithymia]

Lol. I'm having a hard time feeling bad for someone who makes four times my salary. I'm pretty sure you can figure out a decent living situation on that amount.

[dirtyred]

Jun 28, 2017 10:46:26 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Jun 28, 2017 10:26:02 GMT -5 alexis said:

This is an interesting idea. Might cause them to take the economy of their area more seriously. Hey, a lot of them support merit based pay for teachers. Why not for congressmen?

It isn't only campaign finance keeping the non-wealthy out. I used to have a family member that was in local politics. It hadn't occurred to me before how stressful it is to have to campaign to keep your job every couple years. He eventually got out of it because it proved to be too unstable in providing for his family.

If your job has you reapplying every few years with a real possibility you won't be keeping it, you have to have a really good personal safety net to fall back on. The wealthy are far more likely to have that and be able to run.

Outside of certain government jobs does anybody have a lot of job security, especially jobs that have no union involvement? It is not that these are not real life concerns, they are, but I struggle at how these concerns are much different than what other people experience

My college roommate works in television on the production side.  Her contracts are for 13 weeks, so every three months she could lose her job.

[sushi]

Jun 28, 2017 14:45:42 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

We are in dc now and I was calculating how much less than $175,000 we get with the bah included. Lol

Yeah. We lived comfortably in a not-cheap neighborhood and splurged pretty much when we wanted since it was only a year and we didn't want to miss any opportunities. Still way less income than that. We even geo-bached awhile in yet another expensive city. If at the next move it makes sense to geo-bach for a bit, one of the 2 of us (or both) will get a small 1 br or studio. And that's for full time living. Cry me a fucking river.

I like the Barracks Obama idea. It's already owned. Add some fancy amenities like gym and pool. Security is centrally located; maybe they could even have cost savings! Oh, wait, they only want that if it means poor people die.

Between a stipend and security for everyone, they're, in just 2 proposals in 1 day, suggesting they're wanting nearly 30M EXTRA just for a few hundred people. Yet meals on wheels, a fraction of the cost with far greater reach, is too expensive.

[cookiemdough]

Jun 28, 2017 16:34:59 GMT -5 sushi said:

Jun 28, 2017 14:45:42 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

We are in dc now and I was calculating how much less than $175,000 we get with the bah included. Lol

Yeah. We lived comfortably in a not-cheap neighborhood and splurged pretty much when we wanted since it was only a year and we didn't want to miss any opportunities. Still way less income than that. We even geo-bached awhile in yet another expensive city. If at the next move it makes sense to geo-bach for a bit, one of the 2 of us (or both) will get a small 1 br or studio. And that's for full time living. Cry me a fucking river.

I like the Barracks Obama idea. It's already owned. Add some fancy amenities like gym and pool. Security is centrally located; maybe they could even have cost savings! Oh, wait, they only want that if it means poor people die.

Between a stipend and security for everyone, they're, in just 2 proposals in 1 day, suggesting they're wanting nearly 30M EXTRA just for a few hundred people. Yet meals on wheels, a fraction of the cost with far greater reach, is too expensive.

But how would they keep the sex scandals under wraps??

[sushi]

Jun 28, 2017 16:47:17 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Jun 28, 2017 16:34:59 GMT -5 sushi said:

Yeah. We lived comfortably in a not-cheap neighborhood and splurged pretty much when we wanted since it was only a year and we didn't want to miss any opportunities. Still way less income than that. We even geo-bached awhile in yet another expensive city. If at the next move it makes sense to geo-bach for a bit, one of the 2 of us (or both) will get a small 1 br or studio. And that's for full time living. Cry me a fucking river.

I like the Barracks Obama idea. It's already owned. Add some fancy amenities like gym and pool. Security is centrally located; maybe they could even have cost savings! Oh, wait, they only want that if it means poor people die.

Between a stipend and security for everyone, they're, in just 2 proposals in 1 day, suggesting they're wanting nearly 30M EXTRA just for a few hundred people. Yet meals on wheels, a fraction of the cost with far greater reach, is too expensive.

But how would they keep the sex scandals under wraps??

LOL. We already know they have $$$$$ for private lawyers. Or they could just, you know, not engage in scandal. 

I should get into stand-up. I crack myself up sometimes.