Post by drloretta on Sept 19, 2017 10:34:01 GMT -5
I am DVRing and trying to keep up with the live broadcasts.
My dad was a pilot and did 2 or 3 tours in Vietnam at the beginning of his Navy career. He was shot down when my mom was pregnant with me, but it was over water and they fished him out after about an hour. He never told me the details until a few years ago. It's amazing the things parents share with you once you become an adult.
Since he was a pilot he was somewhat removed from the carnage going on on the ground. My mom has told stories about dealing with people calling my dad a baby killer and the whole mood of the country during the war.
Tonight is going to be tough for me I think. The preview showed pilots and I think it going to start talking to those who were shot down and captured.
Vietnam has always hit a nerve for me, even though it ended when I was 7.
H and I are watching. There is so much about this we agree we never knew or remember but we were born in 70/71. It seems really well done but what a complicated mess.
Post by orangeblossom on Sept 19, 2017 14:34:25 GMT -5
My dad was in Vietnam. Served two tours I believe. I don't know if he we combat action, because he always did more paperwork stuff. He doesn't really talk about it much. Up until maybe the last five years, he never missed a Memorial Day going to the Vietnam Memorial.
I definitely think it's messed him up in some ways. I know he was he able to get something for Agent Orange exposure. He was a very bad alcoholic, but gave up drinking the year I was born.
My cousin's biological father was killed in Vietnam.
I honestly don't know if he'd be able to watch it without experiencing some negative effect.
Post by jeaniebueller on Sept 20, 2017 10:28:31 GMT -5
Last night's ep, especially as they are getting deeper into America's involvement was just gut wrenching. I don't recall the name or place of the battle but when they described the efforts and deaths it took to rescue the 4 american soldier's bodies? And then they left the south vietnamese soldier's bodies? And the Lt would not listen to the other guy about them needing to move out now. What a mess.
My dad served in the navy during Vietnam for four years (he was drafted for the army but has a snake phobia so joined the navy instead which I'm sure had some logic for a city kid but doesn't really hold up). It was a topic of conversation throughout my childhood. He's very lucky to not suffer from PTSD - although I bet he did early in - now that I'm typing this I remember my mom alluding to it back in the 89's before such thing was in the common parlance.
My dad always told his funny stories - one of them was a near death experience so very gallows humor.
I took a course in the history of modern Vietnam in vill he and it blew my mind. Everything I thought I knew was wrong and I really struggled with setting aside my preconceived notions and absorbing the class material.
I haven't watched the series yet but plan to start shortly (I have the PBS app so no rush).
The Newseum had an exhibit in Spring 2016 on media and Vietnam.
Post by downtoearth on Sept 20, 2017 11:05:27 GMT -5
I have watched parts of the each of them while doing other things. It's amazing how they are able to wrap individual stories and personal accounts with the politics of the war and the choices the politicians made to appear strong rather than save people's lives in the US, and the experience of the Vietnamese.
Did you all hear the NPR announcement that the VA cautioned vets to avoid the documentary or watch with someone who could help them if they had anxiety or and PTSD trigger? I think it's great that PBS' Burns partnered with the VA to help provide resources for those who might have adverse reactions:
WALSH: In the past, the VA has offered help around the release of movies like "Saving Private Ryan." This time, it's partnering with PBS to reach vets who might need counseling. Taylor's guidance for vets is, don't feel obligated to watch. If you do, he says, find a loved one to watch with you. Taylor is enlisting his wife of 46 years. For NPR News, I'm Steve Walsh in San Diego.
Post by foundmylazybum on Sept 20, 2017 12:08:02 GMT -5
My dad was drafted into the Vietnam war and was in the Infantry. While I know that he definitely saw some messed up stuff that impacted him and his world view--I also find it super interesting that he and my mom experienced positive growth as well. They got married at Fort Polk, my mom taught at the school there and helped kids of other deployed families. They had R&R in Hawaii and because of the GI bill both my parents have their PhD's. It's well known that war can cause PTSD, but I think it is much less talked about how war causes Post Traumatic Growth in people and impacts them and their lives in a positive way.
Post by liveintheville on Sept 20, 2017 13:17:21 GMT -5
I was born in '75 in Vietnam. It was as troops were pulling out. I was evacuated via the Baby Airlift. My dad served as an accountant in the states. My parents are watching it hoping they do a segment on Baby Airlift. I doubt they will but it's a fascinating story.
Post by downtoearth on Sept 20, 2017 13:26:37 GMT -5
foundmylazybum, it doesn't seem like they will get to that or be that positive, but maybe it will talk about the soldiers who thrived in later episodes.
liveintheville, the "baby airlift?" I mean, I knew about people, including kids, who were airlifted, but I didn't realize there was a whole group of babies taken out at once.
foundmylazybum, it doesn't seem like they will get to that or be that positive, but maybe it will talk about the soldiers who thrived in later episodes.
liveintheville, the "baby airlift?" I mean, I knew about people, including kids, who were airlifted, but I didn't realize there was a whole group of babies taken out at once.
It was an operation in April 1975 that evacuated over 10000 children. There was an incident where 2 of the planes took off at the same time and one plane didn't make it. I was on the other plane.
I took a course in the history of modern Vietnam in vill he and it blew my mind. Everything I thought I knew was wrong and I really struggled with setting aside my preconceived notions and absorbing the class material.
I had a similar experience in college. When I studied abroad, I went to Vietnam. We went to what was known as "The Museum of American War Atrocities" (War Remnants Museum). It is no stretch to say that those few hours drastically changed the way I see the world and our country.
Post by jeaniebueller on Sept 22, 2017 9:34:25 GMT -5
I think last night's ep was the heaviest one so far. this article sums up some of the statements on the show. They also showed a clip of McCain's POW video
I think last night's ep was the heaviest one so far. this article sums up some of the statements on the show. They also showed a clip of McCain's POW video
Watching the McCain segment made me hate 45 even more. Who the hell can watch that [or be a living person] and say that they prefer people who don't get captured.
She's great. Ken Burns is basically my Oprah, lol, so I've been aware of Lynn Novick for a while. I find that, especially with this documentary, he's been deferring to her a lot in their joint interviews, which I view as him trying to emphasize the point that she played such a major part in it. But his star power often outshines hers in the eyes of interviewers and they go right back to him. It's really frustrating.
is anyone still watching? We are on the final one.
Episode 9 was so powerful. The Pentagon Papers, the release of the POWS... I am still trying to wrap my brain around how truly horrible Nixon was.
the fall of Saigon and the creation of the Vietnam Memorial in the final episode now.
I'm only on episode 4 but I'm enthralled. It's so well done, and I really appreciate getting the POV of the North Vietnamese because it's definitely a side I've never heard before.
is anyone still watching? We are on the final one.
Episode 9 was so powerful. The Pentagon Papers, the release of the POWS... I am still trying to wrap my brain around how truly horrible Nixon was.
the fall of Saigon and the creation of the Vietnam Memorial in the final episode now.
We finished it Thursday. I think every ep from the 4th one on made me cry. The whole thing was so terrible and you could just sense how scarred these men (on both sides) were. And fuck Nixon and Ford too. Did you catch how some of the S Vietnamese spent 10-15 years in reeducation camps/prison after the fall of Saigon? WTF was the matter with that ambassador denying that Saigon would fall? I haven't been to see the Wall since I was in high school but on my next D.C. trip def want to do it to pay tribute to these brave men. My son really wanted to watch this, but the violence and gore would be way too much at his age but I definitely want him to see it when he is older.
Also--one of the more powerful moments was that protestor who apologized for the terrible things she said and did during that time period. Am I imagining it, but hasn't Jane Fonda also expresses regret for her actions in visiting N Vietnam?
Post by hopecounts on Sept 30, 2017 7:31:12 GMT -5
jeaniebueller She has definitely apologized. My Dad still hates her.
The You Must Remember This podcast just did an fascinating series on her and Jean Seberg that gets into this era. It was fascinating to listen to, especially as someone who was raised in a house where she was hated.
jeaniebueller She has definitely apologized. My Dad still hates her.
The You Must Remember This podcast just did an fascinating series on her and Jean Seberg that gets into this era. It was fascinating to listen to, especially as someone who was raised in a house where she was hated.
I listened to a few of those eps. I admit I knew very little about Jane and had no idea she was so freaky back then. My memories of her start with her aerobics tape.
is anyone still watching? We are on the final one.
Episode 9 was so powerful. The Pentagon Papers, the release of the POWS... I am still trying to wrap my brain around how truly horrible Nixon was.
the fall of Saigon and the creation of the Vietnam Memorial in the final episode now.
We finished it Thursday. I think every ep from the 4th one on made me cry. The whole thing was so terrible and you could just sense how scarred these men (on both sides) were. And fuck Nixon and Ford too. Did you catch how some of the S Vietnamese spent 10-15 years in reeducation camps/prison after the fall of Saigon? WTF was the matter with that ambassador denying that Saigon would fall? I haven't been to see the Wall since I was in high school but on my next D.C. trip def want to do it to pay tribute to these brave men. My son really wanted to watch this, but the violence and gore would be way too much at his age but I definitely want him to see it when he is older.
Also--one of the more powerful moments was that protestor who apologized for the terrible things she said and did during that time period. Am I imagining it, but hasn't Jane Fonda also expresses regret for her actions in visiting N Vietnam?
omg yes, the man that spent SEVENTEEN YEARS in a re-education camp. I could not believe how out of touch the ambassador was. When the former CIA guy said that the N. Vietnamese taped all those shredded documents back together to form a hit list of S. Vietnamese people that worked with the U.S. Embassy.....horrible.
Yes I thought the protester apologizing was powerful too.
Here is what Fonda's wiki says. Sounds like she regrets SOME of it, but not all of it
"Regrets In a 1988 interview with Barbara Walters, Fonda expressed regret for some of her comments and actions, stating:
I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. [...] I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.[59]
Some critics responded that her apology came at a time when a group of New England Veterans had launched a campaign to disrupt a film project she was working on, leading to the charge that her apology was motivated at least partly by self-interest.[49][60]
In a 60 Minutes interview on March 31, 2005, Fonda reiterated that she had no regrets about her trip to North Vietnam in 1972, with the exception of the anti-aircraft-gun photo. She stated that the incident was a "betrayal" of American forces and of the "country that gave me privilege". Fonda said, "The image of Jane Fonda, Barbarella, Henry Fonda's daughter ... sitting on an enemy aircraft gun was a betrayal ... the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine." She later distinguished between regret over the use of her image as propaganda and pride for her anti-war activism: "There are hundreds of American delegations that had met with the POWs. Both sides were using the POWs for propaganda ... It's not something that I will apologize for." Fonda said she had no regrets about the broadcasts she made on Radio Hanoi, something she asked the North Vietnamese to do: "Our government was lying to us and men were dying because of it, and I felt I had to do anything that I could to expose the lies and help end the war."
I just started Episode 9 (sorry to revive this old thread, but I need to discuss with people and H isnt watching with me). What I really never understood was the antiwar protesters' hatred of the troops who came home, especially those who were drafted. Of course, there were some horrific atrocities committed, like the My Lai Massacre, but it seems that in general, they were scared young men (and some women as nurses, which was also so interesting and I had never heard!) just trying to survive and get home. It really bothers me.
Also Nixon reminds me so much of Trump, just sneakier in his shadiness.
And McCain's video struck me so much, I think because I "know" him and know how his life went afterwards and how the Orange Turd treated his service