Post by CheeringCharm on Oct 13, 2017 11:04:30 GMT -5
Interesting modern love story. It didn't end the way I thought it would. What do you think? Was he right to want a prenup? Did she do the right thing by signing?
***
I was 42, as was my fiancé, Matt. We had been together for six years. The first two were long-distance, with him in Mountain View, Calif., and me in Portland, Ore., where I was caring for my terminally ill mother. Until, at her urging, I moved south to join Matt. A few years later, we had Jamie.
I wanted to get married then, but Matt held back. Marriage scared him more than having a child together, and a big part of his fear was financial. He did eventually propose, beautifully so, but as we got further in our wedding planning, he said he wanted us to sign a prenup.
Money, Matt often said, was what people fought about most and what broke up relationships and marriages. True to form, we had been fighting about money since we started dating, our arguments complicated by the vastly different ways we had chosen to live our lives.
After a few post-college years working in marketing, I had quit the corporate world to wait tables and write, living paycheck to paycheck ever since. As a result, when Matt and I met, I had racked up $10,000 in credit card debt and my savings account was empty.
On paper, I had approximately $3,500 in savings, no retirement account and a four-year-old Toyota Yaris with a Blue Book value of $8,000, on which I still owed $4,000. Humbled cannot begin to describe how I felt. More like demoralized, demolished and desperate.
Matt had done the opposite, spending about 15 years at the same company, working in finance, no less. He had saved and saved, amassing an amount that he hadn’t disclosed to anyone.
However, Matt once told me that if he could have done anything with his life, he would have been a rock journalist, à la Lester Bangs. He wasn’t unhappy with his career, but his admission suggested he had traded passion for stability, whereas I had followed my passion at the expense of stability. Why should I be entitled to his money?
Post by Velar Fricative on Oct 13, 2017 11:31:28 GMT -5
The way that article ended, I don't think the writer is really all that satisfied. I think she's trying to convince herself that she's happy with how everything turned out. She spent most of that article talking about her humiliation and then suddenly "Oh! But it's all good!" No.
Initially I thought it sounded like he just never wanted to get married, and was using the pre-nup as an excuse without expecting her to actually go through with it.
Marriage scared him more than having a child together
I've never personally understood this sentiment, though I get that others won't agree with me.
After a few post-college years working in marketing, I had quit the corporate world to wait tables and write, living paycheck to paycheck ever since ... Matt had done the opposite, spending about 15 years at the same company, working in finance, no less. He had saved and saved, amassing an amount that he hadn’t disclosed to anyone.
Quite honestly, I don't really blame him for wanting to protect what he had amassed, in this situation. But it's also a bit alarming that he was completely secretive about his money with the mother of his child/fiancee.
I also don't think it was a great idea for two people with such vastly different approaches toward finances to get together in the first place.
This entire story is "If it works for them, that's great, but I could never live like that" to me. Luckily they don't need my approval to live out their lives as they see fit.
I don’t blame him for wanting a prenup at all. But I’m not sure signing a prenup is the end all be all solution to their problems. Maybe I’m reading to much into the article but they seem to have other issues they still need to address.
I don't think the prenup was the real issue here. Their vastly different financial outlooks/habits were. I don't blame him for wanting a prenup. In fact, I've wondered if FI would ask me for one because he has wayyyy more assets than I do and I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to protect what he's worked hard to save. The difference for us is that I do save, I've just always been a lower earner and used to have to support my XH so I didn't have much opportunity to save whereas he's always had good paying jobs and just himself to support. So our financial habits & goals are similar.
Add me to the "he didn't really want to get married" crowd. I also don't understand having a child with someone being somehow less scary than marriage. I mean, you can get divorced the next day if you want. But having a child means that person is in your life for 18 years, at the very least.
Post by hopecounts on Oct 13, 2017 12:26:30 GMT -5
I think pre-nups are a reasonable necessity in some situations. I also see some red flags with Matt and their relationship. Hiding money, being scared of marriage, what seems to be poor communication. The way he handled and presented this (at least as she views it) seems pretty jerky to me.
Post by CheeringCharm on Oct 13, 2017 12:28:00 GMT -5
I mean, she’s the mother of his child. If they divorceand split custody, does he want his son to be living in a house where they’re struggling just to get by and make rent and put food on the table? That’s why she’s “entitled” to some of his money.
I mean, she’s the mother of his child. If they divorceand split custody, does he want his son to be living in a house where they’re struggling just to get by and make rent and put food on the table? That’s why she’s “entitled” to some of his money.
Well, that's what child support is for and is completely different than this.
I think prenups are pretty important when there's a big difference in assets coming into a marriage. I wouldn't hesitate to sign one, but I also can't say that I'd have felt that way when I was young and engaged. Lucky for us, we were both broke, lol.
I mean, she’s the mother of his child. If they divorceand split custody, does he want his son to be living in a house where they’re struggling just to get by and make rent and put food on the table? That’s why she’s “entitled” to some of his money.
This was a creepy story. The husband sounds controlling. He wanted her to quit her girls' night out? I doubt this suggestion was made after a calm, considerate discussion during which she asked him for some pointers on how she could pay off her CCs.
She's probably doing the bulk of childcare and household stuff while he's out making money. IMO, that entitles her to a good amount in order to get back on her feet should they get divorced. I would have run away from this relationship, NOT gotten married, and NOT signed anything without thoroughly understanding it. I kind of feel sorry for her but kind of don't, since her conclusion seems to be, 'I avoided dealing with reality and so far it's worked out fine.'
So he waited until right after she signed the pre-nup to say, "sorry, maybe we didn't need to go through that." Hmm, no. I'm thinking this story would look very different if she hypothetically wrote it in ten years after a messy divorce.
Post by Velar Fricative on Oct 13, 2017 12:56:22 GMT -5
Also, he sounds like enough of an ass that he probably has less of a problem with her pursuing her passion than he does with her pursuing a non-lucrative career like he did. As in, he wishes she were passionate about a career in finance or something.
Also, he sounds like enough of an ass that he probably has less of a problem with her pursuing her passion than he does with her pursuing a non-lucrative career like he did. As in, he wishes she were passionate about a career in finance or something.
Yep.
Listen, my husband is a musician and he will literally never, ever have benefits or a 401k. He'll also never have a salary, a 9-5 schedule, or any of the other things I wanted in my own career. And I can't change that about him, or judge him for it, or make him want it. I had to accept it because it's part of who he is (and it also has its perks!). That her husband can't do that is a much bigger issue than the prenup. It sounds like he'll always be resentful.
Apparently she has that job with a 401(K) now. I went to search for anything she'd written and came up with nada. (It said she is working on a collection of essays. I wanted to see if she was published prior to this article, which I assume was unpaid...even if it was unpaid. At 42, with a career as a writer of what was apparently more than a few years, I'd expected to see something more than "she's working on" especially if she left corporate life after "just a few years" and had a six year relationship and a kid.) I found a Linked-In profile but no published works. Seems like her more than slightly controlling husband won that battle.
I wonder how the bills and child care are split? How much financial responsibility he's taken after the pre-nup was signed.
Apparently she has that job with a 401(K) now. I went to search for anything she'd written and came up with nada. (It said she is working on a collection of essays. I wanted to see if she was published prior to this article, which I assume was unpaid...even if it was unpaid. At 42, with a career as a writer of what was apparently more than a few years, I'd expected to see something more than "she's working on" especially if she left corporate life after "just a few years" and had a six year relationship and a kid.) I found a Linked-In profile but no published works. Seems like her more than slightly controlling husband won that battle.
I wonder how the bills and child care are split? How much financial responsibility he's taken after the pre-nup was signed.
NYT Modern Love does pay for articles. She probably made a few hundred bucks for writing this piece.
He sounds like an asshole. I imagine they have split finances still too. Which is fine if done fairly and in a way both people feel like equals. That whole article read as though he treated her as less than.
I think so much of dating and marriage is a give and take that the set up for this prenup suggests to me that the marriage is doomed. Hopefully not. But making someone miserable for the price of marriage seems like a bad place to start.
I’m not sure I’d call him an asshole - he maybe should have positioned things differently but I get more if an incompatible vibe then asshole vibe.
Apparently she has that job with a 401(K) now. I went to search for anything she'd written and came up with nada. (It said she is working on a collection of essays. I wanted to see if she was published prior to this article, which I assume was unpaid...even if it was unpaid. At 42, with a career as a writer of what was apparently more than a few years, I'd expected to see something more than "she's working on" especially if she left corporate life after "just a few years" and had a six year relationship and a kid.) I found a Linked-In profile but no published works. Seems like her more than slightly controlling husband won that battle.
I wonder how the bills and child care are split? How much financial responsibility he's taken after the pre-nup was signed.
NYT Modern Love does pay for articles. She probably made a few hundred bucks for writing this piece.
I made $300 when I did one, but that was 2011 and they probably make more now.
These people both sound like the need therapy and probably different significant others? Like...they both have serious hangups wherein they wrap up a LOT of their own value in their monetary worth.
I mean, I admit I don't have much of a frame of reference for empathy on this ( My H and I are in the same field and make nearly the same amount give or take a few percent here and there.) but....still. STILL. She seems to have really conflicting ideas on what she wants like...from life. You know, she wants to be a writer, but she seems to have hinged so much of her internal self worth on the fact that she's not monetarily successful at the moment. So...maybe an unpredictable career like that isn't for you? If a professional asking you to detail your minimal assets makes you feel like dirt, that seems like a *you* problem. Work on that.
Similarly - he sounds more than a little materialistic and whatever man...that's you...but I think that means that somebody with debt and no assets and no intention of accumulating said assets is not your ideal mate. Maybe know that about yourself before you have a baby with her and then try to shoehorn her into your idea of how life goes???
TBH, I am trying to figure out how a prenup where both parties don't disclose all their assets and liabilities will hold up (since she mentions he wasn't disclosing his assets). I know when DH and I got our, that is one thing that the attys stressed is being open and truthful about both was important for it to hold up but this was in IL not CA so maybe things are different.
Liked this for the fellow Modern Love GBCN connection, not bc it's still only $300. lol
Man that freelance change is why I keep pushing on in here every day. Cause the way my bank account is set up ....
YEPPPPPPPP. It's not an easy life. I am not nearly motivated enough to make it work. Which is why this writer's husband needs to get his shit together and respect the freelance life.
I mean, she’s the mother of his child. If they divorceand split custody, does he want his son to be living in a house where they’re struggling just to get by and make rent and put food on the table? That’s why she’s “entitled” to some of his money.
Well, that's what child support is for and is completely different than this.
I think prenups are pretty important when there's a big difference in assets coming into a marriage. I wouldn't hesitate to sign one, but I also can't say that I'd have felt that way when I was young and engaged. Lucky for us, we were both broke, lol.
Yeah I guess I was thinking anout child support but also alimony since he sounds like he has a lot of money/makes a lot of money. I just don’t get men (because it usually is men) who are totally fine with seeing their exes struggle financially just because the romantic relationship is over and they’re not having sex anymore. Especially when they have the kind of money that makes it easy to support two households. I see and hear about this kind of thing a lot and it seems women are much more likely to get screwed over financially in a divorce than men. Its something like 20% of women fall into poverty after a divorce. The changing alimony laws don’t help.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Oct 13, 2017 22:21:35 GMT -5
“What a mess,” he said. “I thought it would be simple. I forgot that nothing is simple when you get lawyers involved. Listen, I don’t know what he’s talking about, but let’s just sign it and finish the process. Let’s be done.”
I have nothing against prenups, but this man is an asshole.
Post by cookiemdough on Oct 14, 2017 0:00:27 GMT -5
Eh, if I get married again I am getting a prenup. I have assets and an ex that I am not sure will financially carry the same load for the future I want for our kids. I am not going to put the stuff that I have been working for them at risk. Period. I will also say that I am currently in a less than ideal environment at work. It would be nice to feel like I have options. It is sometimes overwhelming to feel like I can't take a less paying job because I am the constant for my kids.
I get her feeling trapped by his reaction to her choices, but I can see how he would also feel trapped in feeling they are not on the same page on the approach to money and both similarly committed to what it takes to support a lifestyle they both enjoy. From his perspective he has to sacrifice some of his desires for the family and she gets a pass to not save for things like her move to California and live life as if she doesn't also have some responsibility to their life together.
He may not have handled it great and I don't get the secrecy about his own money, which to me is a flag. But being concerned about differences in spending and saving for the future is not an asshole thing imo. But maybe I am asshole.
Well, that's what child support is for and is completely different than this.
I think prenups are pretty important when there's a big difference in assets coming into a marriage. I wouldn't hesitate to sign one, but I also can't say that I'd have felt that way when I was young and engaged. Lucky for us, we were both broke, lol.
Yeah I guess I was thinking anout child support but also alimony since he sounds like he has a lot of money/makes a lot of money. I just don’t get men (because it usually is men) who are totally fine with seeing their exes struggle financially just because the romantic relationship is over and they’re not having sex anymore. Especially when they have the kind of money that makes it easy to support two households. I see and hear about this kind of thing a lot and it seems women are much more likely to get screwed over financially in a divorce than men. Its something like 20% of women fall into poverty after a divorce. The changing alimony laws don’t help.
Um, you don't get that? LOL. I've yet to meet a divorced man (or woman) who wanted to pay alimony so their ex-spouse could live comfortably. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying it's a high bar to set that anyone wants to write that check.
It's also pretty simplistic to say they don't want to write the check "just because the romantic relationship is over and they're not having sex." They no longer live their lives together. It's not like they're hanging out on the weekends and living in separate residences.
I agree it's shitty. But it's also human nature to claim what's "yours" even if someone else being a part of your life is the reason you have it (which is the case with so many financially successful married men).