FusionGPS dossier testimony thread

[pixy0stix]

Post any of the new stuff from this morning here.

Jan 10, 2018 1:55:09 GMT -5 ESF said:

If you want transcript cliff notes and don’t mind a Twitter thread, this one is excellent.

[2curlydogs]

FGPS?

I've been AWOL for a few days...

[bowies]

Copying over my last post from the Tuesday thread.

I’ve been pondering globalization and its impact on what is going on. If our American oligarchs make their money elsewhere then what loyalty do they have to America as a sovereign nation? They can buy the power that keeps the system running in their favor, but protecting American democracy is just not something they are altogether interested in. They just want to own its resources and use/exploit them. It’s easy to fit what Murdoch and the Mercers are doing into that - creating an army of outraged people against those who threaten them. A GOP Congress helps out by offering buy-offs to those who can’t be motivated via religious or social fervor. And it’s working. It’s been working for a long time.

I’m deep into my pessimism today.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2018 9:57:31 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

FGPS?

I've been AWOL for a few days...

The transcript for the FusionGPS dossier testimony was released by Feinstein yesterday.

[SallyJ]

Can you clarify the title to FusionGPS dossier testimony? pixy0stix,

[SallyJ]

Seth Abramson has bronchitis and posted 200 tweets about it. I won't post all of his stuff, but a lot of the ah-ha moments I had, he covered:

1. The original concern was not collusion with Russia, but Trump et al have done a great job at spinning the message into 'there is no collusion' and 'Trump did not help Russia hack the DNC'. It's a red herring.

2. The original concerns were: the Kremlin could be blackmailing Trump, Trump may have broke campaign finance law by illegally obtaining stolen oppo on Clinton from Russia while simultaneously providing data to the Kremlin via Cambridge Analytica, and Trump may be involved in quid pro quo of dropping sanctions against Russia in order to get a better business relationship with Russia.

3. It doesn't appear that the person who was the informant to the FBI that Simpson was referencing was Papadapolous. Simpson seems to talk about it like it was a different person altogether - an actual whistle blower. Described as 'someone who decided to pick up the phone and report something' but unknown if it was Trump Org or Campaign. Do we know that Papadapolous wasn't a whistle blower? Was he caught by the FBI and flipped? Is there truly another source?

4. There is a lot in there about unusual behavior of the FBI and that Steele backed away from talking to them anymore. Abramson suggests that's why the GOP is attacking the FBI now - they need to try to reframe the narrative that the FBI was pro-Clinton, because either incompetence or malice at the FBI gave the election to Trump. Remember that New York office pressure on Comey that we discussed? Wonder if that's part of this?

[bowies]

Regarding point 3 above, NBC reported yesterday that Simpson clarified that statement - they know now it was the Australian diplomat.

[SallyJ]

Jan 10, 2018 10:55:14 GMT -5 bowies said:

Regarding point 3 above, NBC reported yesterday that Simpson clarified that statement - they know now it was the Australian diplomat.

I saw that too, but it still doesn't jive with Simpson's testimony that he didn't know if the person was in the Trump Campaign or Trump Org/Company.  If he now knows, then why wouldn't he just state that during his testimony?  Although 10 hours is a long time, so perhaps it's not fair to ask that question.  I'm sure years from now with historical papers we will know the answer.

[SallyJ]

Oh one other thing I got out of the testimony...Russia needs a way to launder/move money into the US. The Magnitsky Act and other sanctions shut down Putin in this regard. One of the last remaining ways he moves money into the US? Through the Russian pension program. Most people are Russian gov't employees and they get a pension. Simpson looked into several of these 'ambassador' type of people in the US who are receiving unusually large pensions. Nothing really meaningful yet, but I wonder if this will come back around or be another way law enforcement is looking into shady characters from Russia.

[bowies]

Let's also step back and appreciate that Britain, Australia, and Baltic countries are acting in American interests more than our own GOP and President. It has to be infuriating and scary.

[ESF]

That thread in the OP is a must read. I really didn't have any opinion on Glenn Simpson at all going into this, but after reading it, it's clear that he and Steele were remarkable people who were really trying to save us all. They were private citizens who stumbled into some major shit that floored them, they were concerned not that Trump was going to win but that national security would be endangered because of Russia's ability to blackmail him, and fought like hell to get someone to pay attention. I cannot imagine what must have been going through their heads during the two week period when the FBI came out against Clinton, the NYT claimed there was no Trump-Russia link, and Trump won the election. Now they are not only facing death threats (from Russia, I assume), but having their reputations smeared by the GOP, who want to throw them in prison. If you need any more evidence that the GOP is garbage. this is it.


Also --- one of the things I thought was so interesting was testimony that said that he and Steele were curious about the fact that for many years, Trump kept going to Russia, kept talking about making deals there, but there was no actual evidence of any deals. So what was he doing in Russia?

[Deleted]

If you're not a regular listener of NYT's The Daily podcast, today is about Papadapolous's and Page's role, with a lot of unintentionally funny stuff about Carter Page. What a weird, weird bird.

[SallyJ]

All these crazy connections that come out when new information is released. I just keep thinking what the FBI 'map' must look like. I imagine something vastly more complicated than this:
trump.kimalbrecht.com/network/

[eclaires]

Isn’t one of Grassley’s staffers implicated in something related? Or maybe I’m confusing some other GOP scandalous behavior with the Russian stuff.

[froggy76]

Jan 10, 2018 11:31:47 GMT -5 ESF said:

That thread in the OP is a must read. I really didn't have any opinion on Glenn Simpson at all going into this, but after reading it, it's clear that he and Steele were remarkable people who were really trying to save us all. They were private citizens who stumbled into some major shit that floored them, they were concerned not that Trump was going to win but that national security would be endangered because of Russia's ability to blackmail him, and fought like hell to get someone to pay attention. 

While I agree that they did the right thing by trying to alert everyone to the possibility that Trump was compromised by Russia, I still don't know what I think of Glenn Simpson. Much of what he says about Browder is at odds with Browder's own telling of events, and I don't know whom to believe. FusionGPS supported anti-Magnitsky lobbyists. I don't think this means they were in Russia's pocket, but I also wouldn't paint Glenn Simpson as some kind of hero. They seem willing to work for anyone without any moral compass. Steele is a completely separate entity, though, and really remarkable. I feel like Simpson is maybe riding on his coattails and making it look like he gives a shit about humanity.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2018 11:47:07 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Isn’t one of Grassley’s staffers implicated in something related? Or maybe I’m confusing some other GOP scandalous behavior with the Russian stuff.

One of his staffers (Barbara Ledeen) ran a private investigation into HRC's email. 

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/13/michael-flynn-clinton-email-investigation-russia-dark-web

[bowies]

Jan 10, 2018 12:11:00 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jan 10, 2018 11:47:07 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Isn’t one of Grassley’s staffers implicated in something related? Or maybe I’m confusing some other GOP scandalous behavior with the Russian stuff.

One of his staffers (Barbara Ledeen) ran a private investigation into HRC's email. 

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/13/michael-flynn-clinton-email-investigation-russia-dark-web

And her husband co-authored a book with Flynn during the campaign.

[bowies]

NYT needs to be held to account for that October 31 story, especially now that we know they were getting briefed on the exact opposite. I’m sick of their defensiveness over there. Fire somebody. They FUCKED. UP.

[debatethis]

Jan 10, 2018 11:13:37 GMT -5 SallyJ said:

Oh one other thing I got out of the testimony...Russia needs a way to launder/move money into the US. The Magnitsky Act and other sanctions shut down Putin in this regard. One of the last remaining ways he moves money into the US? Through the Russian pension program. Most people are Russian gov't employees and they get a pension. Simpson looked into several of these 'ambassador' type of people in the US who are receiving unusually large pensions. Nothing really meaningful yet, but I wonder if this will come back around or be another way law enforcement is looking into shady characters from Russia.

I would guess they've been looking at it for years. But why haven't they DONE anything about it? 

See also: Bitcoin, shady real estate transactions, energy sector shenanigans etc. Make it big, painful and public that the US will seize all assets and then some, if you're found to be laundering money here. 

[ESF]

Jan 10, 2018 12:06:07 GMT -5 froggy76 said:

Jan 10, 2018 11:31:47 GMT -5 ESF said:

That thread in the OP is a must read. I really didn't have any opinion on Glenn Simpson at all going into this, but after reading it, it's clear that he and Steele were remarkable people who were really trying to save us all. They were private citizens who stumbled into some major shit that floored them, they were concerned not that Trump was going to win but that national security would be endangered because of Russia's ability to blackmail him, and fought like hell to get someone to pay attention. 

While I agree that they did the right thing by trying to alert everyone to the possibility that Trump was compromised by Russia, I still don't know what I think of Glenn Simpson. Much of what he says about Browder is at odds with Browder's own telling of events, and I don't know whom to believe. FusionGPS supported anti-Magnitsky lobbyists. I don't think this means they were in Russia's pocket, but I also wouldn't paint Glenn Simpson as some kind of hero. They seem willing to work for anyone without any moral compass. Steele is a completely separate entity, though, and really remarkable. I feel like Simpson is maybe riding on his coattails and making it look like he gives a shit about humanity.

Interesting. I'll have to look into the Browder stuff later. It's insane how Russia seemed to have quietly built ties with so many in the US and now all these links are popping up everywhere.

[froggy76]

Jan 10, 2018 12:36:54 GMT -5 ESF said:

Jan 10, 2018 12:06:07 GMT -5 froggy76 said:

While I agree that they did the right thing by trying to alert everyone to the possibility that Trump was compromised by Russia, I still don't know what I think of Glenn Simpson. Much of what he says about Browder is at odds with Browder's own telling of events, and I don't know whom to believe. FusionGPS supported anti-Magnitsky lobbyists. I don't think this means they were in Russia's pocket, but I also wouldn't paint Glenn Simpson as some kind of hero. They seem willing to work for anyone without any moral compass. Steele is a completely separate entity, though, and really remarkable. I feel like Simpson is maybe riding on his coattails and making it look like he gives a shit about humanity.

Interesting. I'll have to look into the Browder stuff later. It's insane how Russia seemed to have quietly built ties with so many in the US and now all these links are popping up everywhere.

There were some people on Twitter yesterday saying they trust Browder and Steele, but not Simpson. But some of those people seemed to be aligned with Louise Mensch, who I still think is maybe a little off her rocker. It's so hard to figure out the truth.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 10, 2018 13:25:24 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

Jan 10, 2018 11:42:49 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

If you're not a regular listener of NYT's The Daily podcast, today is about Papadapolous's and Page's role, with a lot of unintentionally funny stuff about Carter Page. What a weird, weird bird.

this is enough to draw me in. CP amuses me to no end.

It's his hat choices.

[sporklemotion]

Jan 10, 2018 13:34:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jan 10, 2018 13:25:24 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

this is enough to draw me in. CP amuses me to no end.

It's his hat choices.

And the vacant smile. He really is the Gilligan of the group.

[SallyJ]

Jan 10, 2018 12:06:07 GMT -5 froggy76 said:

Jan 10, 2018 11:31:47 GMT -5 ESF said:

That thread in the OP is a must read. I really didn't have any opinion on Glenn Simpson at all going into this, but after reading it, it's clear that he and Steele were remarkable people who were really trying to save us all. They were private citizens who stumbled into some major shit that floored them, they were concerned not that Trump was going to win but that national security would be endangered because of Russia's ability to blackmail him, and fought like hell to get someone to pay attention. 

While I agree that they did the right thing by trying to alert everyone to the possibility that Trump was compromised by Russia, I still don't know what I think of Glenn Simpson. Much of what he says about Browder is at odds with Browder's own telling of events, and I don't know whom to believe. FusionGPS supported anti-Magnitsky lobbyists. I don't think this means they were in Russia's pocket, but I also wouldn't paint Glenn Simpson as some kind of hero. They seem willing to work for anyone without any moral compass. Steele is a completely separate entity, though, and really remarkable. I feel like Simpson is maybe riding on his coattails and making it look like he gives a shit about humanity.

Browder is interesting for sure.  His ties to Russian mafia and pro-Putin stuff does make me skeptical of his motivation.  I disagree with your characterization of Fusion supporting anti-Magnitsky lobbyists.  They were hired by anti-Magnitsky lobbyists to find information about the case.  Now, I agree that they didn't do anything in regards to moral dilemmas in that case, but they didn't do anything in regards to the Trump stuff either.  Steele went to the FBI and Fusion was just 'eh, you do you'.   So definitely agree that Simpson isn't a hero.

[Deleted]

Jan 10, 2018 13:36:38 GMT -5 sporklemotion said:

Jan 10, 2018 13:34:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

It's his hat choices.

And the vacant smile. He really is the Gilligan of the group.

The podcast calls him an "odd duck" and "lonely" and talks about his off-putting personality. It's just everything we've been saying about him here for a while.

[WOT?*]

I thought this unrolled thread was a good read of the dossier as well.
threadreaderapp.com/thread/950884746082562048.html

[phunluvin82]

Jan 10, 2018 12:24:40 GMT -5 bowies said:

NYT needs to be held to account for that October 31 story, especially now that we know they were getting briefed on the exact opposite. I’m sick of their defensiveness over there. Fire somebody. They FUCKED. UP.

Yeah, one of my takeaways from that Hoarse Whisperer thread was definitely, "WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK NYT?!?!"

[eclaires]

I suspect the NYT had sources in that NY field office that are the root of that story.

[ESF]

Jan 10, 2018 17:58:44 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I suspect the NYT had sources in that NY field office that are the root of that story.

Yep. That is definitely where it seems the rot is. I understand the NYT wants to protect its sources, but when the sources fed it propaganda to get it to further a political agenda, the story is the identity of the source. It needs to name them. 

[tessalb]

Thank you, ESF and @wot?* for the threads. They were immensely helpful!

Fuck the GOP.