How worried should I be about this?

[mustardseed2007]

My daughter (the one who is speech therapy now) has another weird thing. She does not draw pictures. She LOVES to draw, but still only scribbles. She's 4 and will be 5 in March. 

Her teacher pointed this out in a parent teacher conference and so I asked her to draw me a picture of something specific. I told her a spider and she did draw a circle with legs (all legs on one side of the body more like a dog but it definitely had resemblance). She proceeded to draw a rainbow with one arc...and the scribbled in a bunch of colors under the arch and called it a rainbow. More recently when I ask for a picture of something she refuses, says she can't, or says she loves her art how it is, says she only wants to scribble or says she's writing words and then writes a horizontal scribbly line (so it's sort of representative?).

Is this something or is it not? 

Her teacher says she's on track academically as far as letters and math. Her areas of concern were her speech (and now she's in speech therapy) and she said she would expect at her age to see more representative drawings and less scribbles as a precursor to writing.










 

[traveltheworld]

I wouldn't be worried at all.

DS, who is 6.5, couldn't "draw" anything until the past 6 months. All he did before that were scribbles, circles and lines.

[mommyatty]

How is she with tracing letters and numbers, which I assume they are doing at school? If she’s struggling with that, I would be concerned. You can get a preschool workbook and let her do the games to get an idea of whether she’s struggling with the steps it would take to draw something (not something to worry about) or if it’s that she really can’t hold and control a writing instrument (may be something to worry about).

DS at 4 still scribbles quite a bit, but he also rocks mazes and games where you draw a line to the objects that go together and tracing his letters and numbers. So I don’t worry.

Just an odd observation. We found out DD is a global or gestalt learner. So she has a very hard time seeing the steps it takes to do a thing but grasps whole large concepts very easily. Writing is hard for her. Drawing is really terrible. But overall she rocks school. So you may have a global learner on your hands.

[mustardseed2007]

They don't have them trace on paper, or not that I've seen, but they use sandpaper letters and she traces with her finger. She also enjoys doing pin push work. You take a push pin and follow the line of a drawing so that you either cut out the shape or create a picture of the shape on the back in tiny holes.

[erinshelley21]

DS is getting ready to turn 5 in a few weeks and has just started drawing within the last couple of months. His drawing consisted of houses for like a month. And only one kind of house. He just recently branched out into other objects since he knows he can draw.

I wouldn't be worried. You know she can draw a picture. She may just not like too. I know when DS asks me to draw a picture, I end up writing bubble letters or the same kind of flower I've been doodling on paper for 15+ years.

[k3am]

DD just started drawing more than scribbles in kinder...

[mustardseed2007]

Ok then no big deal. Thank you guys. On the one hand if she needed OT she could get it from the place that she's getting her speech therapy from, but on the other hand I didn't want to do more therapy!!!!

[waverly]

DS is terrible at writing and drawing. I consider him behind in these areas. It could be fine motor skill because he was in OT last year. Or it could be it is hard, so he doesn't want to do it. And thus avoids it, and doesn't get practice.

We are doing Handwriting without Tears at home. He is in 2nd grade, and his drawings are still terrible. He would still scribble if he could get away with it, but he can draw if we sit right next to him and force him to.

[2chatter]

I’d just make sure she can color in - my three were taught to color by outlining and then shading the same direction. My youngest hated it but could do it beautifully when required before K. My middle sucked at it because she had a really weird pencil grip.

It’s caused middle some issues, so may be worth seeing if the ability is there but the will is lacking.

[sandandsea]

I think it’s normal as she’s only 4. She’s probably capable but not interested. I’d wait and see how it progresses during the next year. Ds did this at the beginning of K when he didn’t want to try something he thought was difficult as he didn’t want to fail or if he was uninterested. He got over it.

[abs]

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent. I'd have an OT evaluation. If the teacher mentioned something it's worth checking out. I obviously don't think she needs to be drawing masterpieces at this age but it sounds like there could be an issue. FWIW my daughter was in speech for 3 years and around the age of 4 I realized she really couldn't draw a circle very well. I had an OT evaluation for her and yes she had a delay. Within 3 months she was caught up. Not being able to draw a picture could also be a motor planning issue--that was an issue for us.

[honeydew1894]

Nov 17, 2018 7:48:19 GMT -5 abs said:

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent. I'd have an OT evaluation. If the teacher mentioned something it's worth checking out. I obviously don't think she needs to be drawing masterpieces at this age but it sounds like there could be an issue. FWIW my daughter was in speech for 3 years and around the age of 4 I realized she really couldn't draw a circle very well. I had an OT evaluation for her and yes she had a delay. Within 3 months she was caught up. Not being able to draw a picture could also be a motor planning issue--that was an issue for us.

This...it doesn't hurt and to hear that nothing is wrong is just fine. We did an OT with our son for spatial issues (standing too close, bumping into things, etc.), and it turned out to be nothing. That said, I am glad to "officially" know that.

Also, I think you DD is probably fine.

[akafred]

I think there is a milestone for this. Let me look it up. OK it’s draws a person with a body. I thought it was more body parts than that, but it would just be body, so I think your kiddo is meeting that (with the spider thing).

[mommyatty]

Nov 17, 2018 16:29:32 GMT -5 honeydew1894 said:

Nov 17, 2018 7:48:19 GMT -5 abs said:

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent. I'd have an OT evaluation. If the teacher mentioned something it's worth checking out. I obviously don't think she needs to be drawing masterpieces at this age but it sounds like there could be an issue. FWIW my daughter was in speech for 3 years and around the age of 4 I realized she really couldn't draw a circle very well. I had an OT evaluation for her and yes she had a delay. Within 3 months she was caught up. Not being able to draw a picture could also be a motor planning issue--that was an issue for us.

This...it doesn't hurt and to hear that nothing is wrong is just fine. We did an OT with our son for spatial issues (standing too close, bumping into things, etc.), and it turned out to be nothing. That said, I am glad to "officially" know that.

Also, I think you DD is probably fine.

I literally don’t know a SINGLE CHILD who has had an OT eval and been found not to need OT. Some kids need it, but a lot of it is a scam, especially around handwriting. There was a whole Washington Post article about it. An example, DD was doing well in ice skating lessons and balances on anything that slightly resembles a balance beam. She is a nut on her balance bike. Her OT assessment showed balance deficits. Yeah. Whatever.

The handwriting thing preys on every bit of parental guilt around “doing everything to give your child every advantage.” We fell for it, until an educational psychologist told us OT for handwriting was doing more harm than good because twice a week we were telling our daughter she was so bad at writing she needed special help. We stopped and her handwriting immediately started making great progress. So we basically paid a few thousand dollars to screw up our kid’s head.

Also, developmentally, the triangle grip needed for good pencil control doesn’t develop until 5 and is still considered within normal limits if it doesn’t fully develop until 7. Sending a 4 year old to OT for handwriting, in the words of the psychologist, is like taking your 9 year old to a gynecologist because she hasn’t started her period when 2 girls in her grade already have. 

[abs]

Nov 18, 2018 10:36:57 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

Nov 17, 2018 16:29:32 GMT -5 honeydew1894 said:

This...it doesn't hurt and to hear that nothing is wrong is just fine. We did an OT with our son for spatial issues (standing too close, bumping into things, etc.), and it turned out to be nothing. That said, I am glad to "officially" know that.

Also, I think you DD is probably fine.

I literally don’t know a SINGLE CHILD who has had an OT eval and been found not to need OT. Some kids need it, but a lot of it is a scam, especially around handwriting. There was a whole Washington Post article about it. An example, DD was doing well in ice skating lessons and balances on anything that slightly resembles a balance beam. She is a nut on her balance bike. Her OT assessment showed balance deficits. Yeah. Whatever.

The handwriting thing preys on every bit of parental guilt around “doing everything to give your child every advantage.” We fell for it, until an educational psychologist told us OT for handwriting was doing more harm than good because twice a week we were telling our daughter she was so bad at writing she needed special help. We stopped and her handwriting immediately started making great progress. So we basically paid a few thousand dollars to screw up our kid’s head.

Also, developmentally, the triangle grip needed for good pencil control doesn’t develop until 5 and is still considered within normal limits if it doesn’t fully develop until 7. Sending a 4 year old to OT for handwriting, in the words of the psychologist, is like taking your 9 year old to a gynecologist because she hasn’t started her period when 2 girls in her grade already have. 

I think this depends on the OT. At 2.5 we had an OT eval and learned DD has hypotonia but no therapy was recommended at the time. It wasn’t holding her back and never has. At 4 we had another rival and did qualify because her fine motor skills weren’t developing like they should. FWIW DD loved OT! She thought it was so fun and it gave me ideas on how to strengthen her fingers in fun ways. In no way was it a scam. I can see where that might happen but no qualified therapist will recommend therapy unless you truly need it. They are too busy for that.

I’m in no way saying OP’s child needs OT. I am saying if the teacher has recommended an evaluation it’s worth pursuing. Information is always a good thing. There most likely is nothing else going on but if there is it’s best to catch it early.

[akafred]

When DD was 1 1/2, she was turned down for OT services.

A different place accepted her at 4 (fine motor but especially sensory). The second place also turned her down for speech therapy when I had concerns about pragmatic. So it definitely happens.

Technically to qualify as “delayed” you have to be less than something like 25th percentile. I can see they might fudge a child who is a little higher and still recommend services, but probably not as they approach true average.

[mustardseed2007]

My concern was pretty much exactly that if I had her tested she'd end up needing it according to the OT people and it wouldn't help that much...or who know, maybe it would.

This is kind of based on her needing PT for well over a year for torticollis and the therapy alone never fixed it, she needed a botox shot plus therapy to fix it.

This will be her THIRD time in speech therapy, actually. She was in it as a baby for feeding, then in it a year ago for speech, and now in it again for speech. This time the speech therapy seems to have more focus on articulation and more express instruction, plus it's very very clear that she needs it, so I'm happier this time with it.

But we've done a lot of therapy that I kind of felt didn't go where it was supposed to go. Not a total waste of time and not a scam exactly, just not entirely effective.

For what it's worth, DS was turned down for speech. We had him evaluated last year for articulation. He still switches "W" for R and L sounds, but from the speech therapist we learned that until age 7 it's normal. Of course he's going to be 7 next month...

We gave her a book this weekend to trace letters and she was ALL over it. But she seems nearly (not completely) incapable of coming up with how to draw a thing on her own. She does somewhat within the lines though.

[supertrooper1]

We just had a similar conversation at our PTC for DS on Friday. He's in kindergarten and was in a developmental preschool the last 2 years as a model student. He's never been into drawing or coloring and I think he gets that from me because that is where I lacked as a kid (and still do). His teacher thinks it is a time thing, where he would rather rush and do something he likes doing instead of spending time on drawing and coloring. I've looked at his work posted in the hallway compared to other kids in his class, and most of them are neatly colored between the lines and DS just scribbles.

One thing that stuck out in your OP is that you ask your DD to draw something. Since DS's preschool was for kids with disabilities, they kept books of his work for progress. What they would have the kids do is copy a teacher done example. For example, the teacher would draw and color a house and then have the students copy it to the best of their ability. I know DS did better at copying an example than being asked to draw a house. And it was amazing to see his progress from the beginning of his 4 year old preschool class to the end of the year.

[waverly]

On the therapy topic, I have definitely waffled on what to do and when and if he needs it. We do a triage approach paired with a schedule approach aimed at avoiding burn out.

We address major issues first- heart surgery, hearing aids. Because of that we held off on therapies.

I always felt the earlier the better with intervention but honestly there wasn’t much difference in OT and PT at 3, 5 or 7. Even at the older age he benefitted and probably worked harder as he understood it better. A long winded way of saying it’s ok to hold off a while and do the wait and see approach.

[traveltheworld]

I don't know how to post pictures here from my phone, but if I could, if post a picture that DS drew at 4.5 of submarines going to a treasure Island - it literally was 6 random circles (not even real circles). I was slightly concerned but had bigger things to worry about. He also never coloured or drew much. Then in the last 3 months his drawing went from nothing to full pictures of real identifiable objects.

I'm a big proponent of therapy - both of my kids had speech therapy (DD is on her second set of speech), and arguably neither needed/needs it, but I always go with the "meh, what's the harm" approach. But, honestly I don't think this is something that you really should worry about. If she had good pencil grip and can trace, then I don't think there's an issue; so if therapy is a hassle, I wouldn't even pursue it - because I tend to agree with others, if you ask for an evaluation (especially if it's private out of pocket), chances are something would be recommended.

[HeartofCheese]

I wouldn't worry either. My almost 6yo DS is only just starting to draw stick figures. You could always try to help her trace pictures if you're concerned. I have something like this and the kids love it.

[2chatter]

DD was screened for autism twice and had two OT evals. Zero diagnosis or services. Current ped said we could electively do some executive function and motor therapy and OT (mostly handwriting), but he sees it as a function of giftedness and not 2E.

Pretty much, she’s analyzing things and it appears as poor planning or poor motor to us but she’s actively evaluating and choosing. He used a couple questions from some measure (very fuzzy recollection of this) to illustrate this and reiterated that 123 Magic was a good choice for her.

So...my opinion remains to see capabilities. And asking questions sometimes yields interesting information, so for sure ask providers when you see them.

[waverly]

Same 2chatter. After we did the therapies which he did need. Now the school pointed out that it is a factor of his giftedness.

Subcontext school won’t offer OT unless child is severely disabled and don’t do gifted programs because gifted is not mandated by our state. So they didn’t use those words exactly.

Basically they thought it was because his mind was moving so fast his handwriting and pictures didn’t keep up. It also didn’t help that he had little interest in this area and the school forming letters curriculum is lacking. Now they have moved onto writing stories and non fiction. There is no actual letter formation curriculum at this grade hence us doing it at home.