May his family find peace in his long life and the fact that he is with Barbara again. At 94 with 73 years of marriage, I hope that brings them comfort.
May his family find peace in his long life and the fact that he is with Barbara again. At 94 with 73 years of marriage, I hope that brings them comfort.
Maybe it’s that he’s part of the “greatest generation” — but he did some really amazing and heroic things without fanfare or recognition, because he felt they were the right things to do. I can’t help but compare that to our current president, who couldn’t find the right way out of a paper bag, and who has never done anything for anyone other than himself for his entire life, yet takes every opportunity to remind everyone of how great he is.
I've seen him out and about so many times supporting Houston. I've seen him at Astros game, at musicals, at the ballet. I couldn't help but like him and Barbara. I wish his family peace during this time.
I have so many friends who posted pics with him at various charity events they worked or supported. <3
May his family find peace in his long life and the fact that he is with Barbara again. At 94 with 73 years of marriage, I hope that brings them comfort.
Maybe it’s that he’s part of the “greatest generation” — but he did some really amazing and heroic things without fanfare or recognition, because he felt they were the right things to do. I can’t help but compare that to our current president, who couldn’t find the right way out of a paper bag, and who has never done anything for anyone other than himself for his entire life, yet takes every opportunity to remind everyone of how great he is.
Post by sugarglider on Dec 1, 2018 15:42:12 GMT -5
I didn’t realize how much he had done before I read his obituary. I’m glad he was able to be at Barbara the younger’s wedding. I suspect that was part of the reason for the swift engagement. I think there’s comfort that he’s joined his wife. I wonder what it will be like for the family at Christmas having lost both this year, though.
According to the NYT, Trump wrote (or had someone write) a decent memorial and he will be at the funeral. Should be fun, considering what he's said about Dubya, Jeb and also (while gentler) Senior.
I noticed in 45’s statement he mentioned spending time with HW. Is he lying about that I wonder and when did that happen.
Local news report says his last words were to GW in response to GW telling him he had been a wonderful dad and he loved him. "I love you, too," were his last words.
Moments before that he reportedly asked his best friend, James Baker, who was at his side, "Where are we going Bake?" "We're going to heaven," said Baker. "That's where I want to go," said Bush.
I'm not crying - you're crying! (except Pixy who is kindly biting her tongue, wink).
While there were several aspects of his politics that I disagree with, I have a tremendous amount of respect for this man and his lifetime of public service. Did you know that as a Navy fighter pilot he was shot down over Chichijima? He was one of nine pilots to be shot down -- the other eight were captured by the Japanese and severely beaten and tortured, then beheaded. George HW Bush was the only one to evade capture. He was only 20. Let that sit with you for a while.
You know, I read stuff like this and then you think about the individuals like HW and McCain and all the other presidents and true servants of this nation who have sought the greater good for this country and its people and the ideals of freedom and democracy and I can’t help but wonder, what will people say when Trump dies someday?
Yes and I think this is so difficult for people to grasp when someone like this dies. And I’m sure on a lesser scale we all do this when someone close to us dies. I think a lot about my grandma who was amazing in so many ways but of course she had her faults! She wasn’t perfect because humans aren’t perfect. Her faults/biases/mistakes just affected a lot fewer people than someone who was as powerful as HW.
People, in general, are complicated, and that is especially clear to me when they live for 94 years and have immense power and impact over the course of their lifetime.
While there were several aspects of his politics that I disagree with, I have a tremendous amount of respect for this man and his lifetime of public service. Did you know that as a Navy fighter pilot he was shot down over Chichijima? He was one of nine pilots to be shot down -- the other eight were captured by the Japanese and severely beaten and tortured, then beheaded. George HW Bush was the only one to evade capture. He was only 20. Let that sit with you for a while.
You know, I read stuff like this and then you think about the individuals like HW and McCain and all the other presidents and true servants of this nation who have sought the greater good for this country and its people and the ideals of freedom and democracy and I can’t help but wonder, what will people say when Trump dies someday?
While there were several aspects of his politics that I disagree with, I have a tremendous amount of respect for this man and his lifetime of public service. Did you know that as a Navy fighter pilot he was shot down over Chichijima? He was one of nine pilots to be shot down -- the other eight were captured by the Japanese and severely beaten and tortured, then beheaded. George HW Bush was the only one to evade capture. He was only 20. Let that sit with you for a while.
You know, I read stuff like this and then you think about the individuals like HW and McCain and all the other presidents and true servants of this nation who have sought the greater good for this country and its people and the ideals of freedom and democracy and I can’t help but wonder, what will people say when Trump dies someday?
It's obvious that McCain and HW loved deeply and were loved in return.
I'm honestly not sure if 45 actually knows how to love our if his narcissism keeps him too self-centered. For me, that makes am impact on my immediate reaction to a death (thinking of the people they left behind).
But yeah, even if I understand that HW was flawed and that he deeply hurt (even killed) a lot of people, I do still have the sense that he was trying for something deeper than himself, and I can respect that even if I would have protested some of his decisions as President.
I dunno, maybe the news was different enough then and I was too young and HW wasn't. But I find it hard to picture 45 writing anything like that letter HW left for Clinton.
I can definitely see how the hagiography (I learned a new word in via Twitter about how we remember HW!) that makes up the mainstream remembrances if HW can feel hurtful to communities he's harmed, though. I don't have a problem also talking here about the ways he was hateful. I don't think we have any of his family members here.
My uncle is gay, is pretty clearly living with AIDS but we haven't talked about it, and came out in the 80s. Bush's policies hurt him and his community. His life partner lived such a short life as a result.
My sister is intellectually challenged. My aunt is missing her forearm. Others in my family have other disabilities. Bush's policies and support of the ADA helped advance educational and career opportunities for people with disabilities so instead of being marginalized as "retards" they are now regarded as persons with disabilities - people first, who happen to have disabilities.
I can't separate the two. But i can honor that after his presidency he worked across party lines for the good of so many across the world. And that is a good thing.
I can definitely see how the hagiography (I learned a new word in via Twitter about how we remember HW!) that makes up the mainstream remembrances if HW can feel hurtful to communities he's harmed, though. I don't have a problem also talking here about the ways he was hateful. I don't think we have any of his family members here.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Reagan and HW Bush also the ones who harnessed evangelicals to really politicize abortion/women's healthcare too?
Complicated is certainly an apt way to describe him. He did some really good and honorable things, and he also did some things that harmed a lot of vulnerable people. I'm not surprised that there are mixed emotions about his passing and legacy.
While there were several aspects of his politics that I disagree with, I have a tremendous amount of respect for this man and his lifetime of public service. Did you know that as a Navy fighter pilot he was shot down over Chichijima? He was one of nine pilots to be shot down -- the other eight were captured by the Japanese and severely beaten and tortured, then beheaded. George HW Bush was the only one to evade capture. He was only 20. Let that sit with you for a while.
You know, I read stuff like this and then you think about the individuals like HW and McCain and all the other presidents and true servants of this nation who have sought the greater good for this country and its people and the ideals of freedom and democracy and I can’t help but wonder, what will people say when Trump dies someday?
You can see how the narrative is going to change just by looking at how people treat Dubya now - the lovable fool, who paints pictures and is besties with Michelle. Not the man who threw us into a pointless war and doomed us to die from climate change.
We have to be critical about the ways we remember people. We're creating history when we memorialize a president, and there needs to be room for accomplishments and failures.
While there were several aspects of his politics that I disagree with, I have a tremendous amount of respect for this man and his lifetime of public service. Did you know that as a Navy fighter pilot he was shot down over Chichijima? He was one of nine pilots to be shot down -- the other eight were captured by the Japanese and severely beaten and tortured, then beheaded. George HW Bush was the only one to evade capture. He was only 20. Let that sit with you for a while.
You know, I read stuff like this and then you think about the individuals like HW and McCain and all the other presidents and true servants of this nation who have sought the greater good for this country and its people and the ideals of freedom and democracy and I can’t help but wonder, what will people say when Trump dies someday?
The old white men who were public servants, who have recently passed, were undoubtedly flawed. But ultimately, they were public servants. They devoted their lives to this serving this country, and while they certainly made mistakes, and ended up taking positions that did hurt people, I don't believe they did so from a position of selfishness. They did some great things, they did some really not great things, but I don't think the not great things stemmed from a desire for revenge, manipulation, or undermining democracy.
The same can't be said for 45. He doesn't give a single fuck who he hurts, as long as he comes out on top. When he dies, I don't think there will be much analysis of balancing his good (are there any?) vs bad deeds. I think it will be more psychological armchair quarterbacking about why his particular brand of narcissism appealed to so many people, and what actions have, or have not, been taken to address the aftermath of his administration. I'm sure Breitbart will post some sort of white nationalistic tribute, and Fox will probably talk about his "challenges" in running the country, framed around forgiveness of "troubled" soul.
I know as a deceased president, he'll probably get the same national ceremony around his funeral, which is gross to think about, but I don't see many people publicly mourning him. As with his inauguration, an empty/sparsely attended funeral procession route is what I anticipate, and what he would deserve. He will be missed by few, as he is truly loved by far fewer.
I feel like the Bush's are seen in better light now that we have such an abomination in the White House. Their narratives definitely were changed once 45 stepped on the scene.
You know, I read stuff like this and then you think about the individuals like HW and McCain and all the other presidents and true servants of this nation who have sought the greater good for this country and its people and the ideals of freedom and democracy and I can’t help but wonder, what will people say when Trump dies someday?
You can see how the narrative is going to change just by looking at how people treat Dubya now - the lovable fool, who paints pictures and is besties with Michelle. Not the man who threw us into a pointless war and doomed us to die from climate change.
But I actually think again some of this is by observing his relationship with people like Michelle. We do often judge people by their relationships. I'm just having a hard time imagining 45 seeming genuinely friendly with anyone. He only seems to care about transactional relationships.
I grew up in Maine, only a few minutes from his summer home. (Though he spent many months out of the year here.) He attended most, if not all, of the Memorial Day parades I marched in (band) as a child and teen. He stood in the town square, we stopped in front of him, turned, and performed. He was such a big part of our town. He was actually friends with people on both sides of our family. An older cousin on my mom's side flew with him on AF1 a few times. When my cousin passed, George sat in the same pew as me at his funeral.
On my dad's side of the family -- My grandpa was a Maine state trapper. (Catch and release / relocate.) When I was a kid, he went to their residence to trap a problem skunk that had sprayed their dog Millie. My grandpa made some comment to Barbara about how "I know who will be sleeping outside in the doghouse tonight!!" (Referring to the stinky dog.) Barbara immediately replied: "Yes, GEORGE! Millie will sleep in the house, skunk smell or not!" My grandpa often stopped by our house to show me the animals he had trapped, before driving them upstate to release. I remember seeing the skunk in the back of his truck and laughing when he told me the story. <3
So many memories of interacting with them in town over the years. Shortly after DH and I got married we were sailing up the river back to the local marina. DH jokingly said "I hope I get to see one of the Bush presidents today!" Funny timing. I said "turn around, here he comes on his boat!" DH turned, and GWB waved. He was always waving at everyone when he was out and about, and often when he was on his grounds and he saw tourists on the rocks opposite his property. (Water separated the public area with his estate.)
He will surely be missed in Maine. I'm sure he had a similar impact on his community in Texas.
I can definitely see how the hagiography (I learned a new word in via Twitter about how we remember HW!) that makes up the mainstream remembrances if HW can feel hurtful to communities he's harmed, though. I don't have a problem also talking here about the ways he was hateful. I don't think we have any of his family members here.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Reagan and HW Bush also the ones who harnessed evangelicals to really politicize abortion/women's healthcare too?
Complicated is certainly an apt way to describe him. He did some really good and honorable things, and he also did some things that harmed a lot of vulnerable people. I'm not surprised that there are mixed emotions about his passing and legacy.
My understanding, and I'm not a historian, is that yes, Reagan started it and HW kept building on it.
I definitely don't like the man for many of his policies. His shepherding of the ADA has made a huge positive impact on one of my family members, and I appreciate that.
Post by centralsquare on Dec 2, 2018 13:11:29 GMT -5
All of this comparison to 45 is skewing things. 45 is an aberration. He’s a fraud. He’s not worthy of discussion.
Looking at Bush I and Bush II somewhat admirably in comparison is a fallacy. Yes, I long for a time our leaders weren’t a complete embarrassment. But we still need to hold HW accountable, in all his complexities. He doesn’t get a pass for the many shitty things he did, just bc he also wasn’t a narcissistic fool.
Post by newboardnewme on Dec 2, 2018 15:25:44 GMT -5
I've been biting my tongue at all the accolades I see too. I agree he was complicated - having done some good things and some super shitty ones. I also agree that having 45 as a comparison will forever change the way we see all past presidents - the "retrospect" glasses will always be rose colored now.
One of the bombshells in Bagman (Maddow podcast) was that GHW Bush actively participated in an attempted conspiracy to obstruct justice that, had it been successful, would have made it possible for Agnew to be president once Nixon was out. The consequences of that altered history are unimaginable. History books fail to accurately depict just how criminal Agnew was. He actively took bribes while Vice President (money stuffed in white envelopes delivered to his office and home) and managed a whole criminal operation with multiple participants, and he had accepted bribes and kickbacks throughout his entire political career before that. Yes, there was tax evasion and tax fraud, but that was the tip of the iceberg. The plot failed and Agnew was out, but he participated in it nonetheless!
In today's climate, participation in a conspiracy to obstruct justice would potentially be career ending for GHW Bush. But his participation and the conspiracy went undetected (despite being evident in archival tapes and transcripts) until Maddow's podcast brought it to light. How different would our country have been (and the Bush family legacy for that matter) had he been indicted and removed from the political playing field in the early 70's? We'll never know.
Binge listen to Bagman if you haven't already. Worth it!