I know people have horror stories about their PhDs so as a counter point I’m going to say this: I loved my PhD. I think I loved every second of it. Independent research was my jam.
I interviewed advisors and chose one where expectations were clear and mindsets were similar. I also chose a lab/project that affected me personally.
I’ve described my PhD as me learning how to learn. It wasn’t about knowing every thing in science but more learning how to ask the right questions to get the right answers and think critically at every level of an experiment. For myself, this level of synthesis would never have happened for me at master’s level research.
I knew that I did not want to become a PI so I’ve translated these skills 100% to my industry job. I have no regrets over pursuing my PhD and it can be a great experience.
But I have friend with other stories. And so do other people in this thread. I
EDIT - my PhD was six years, I post doced for five years then became a staff scientist for a year before moving to industry. I’m two years into industry now.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Feb 9, 2019 12:24:59 GMT -5
I only came in here because I’ve recently thought about getting my PhD so I can go the community college route of teaching. I also remember the 8 years of MA and PhD for my husband all too well, and I’m not sure if I want to do that to my family (although he handles stress poorly lol).
Understand exactly what you are hoping to get out of it, and why a PhD is necessary to achieve that.
However long they tell you it will take, assume it will take longer. Your major profesor can hold you hostage as long as he/she wants to.
You are at the mercy of your professor. If they are the world's worst boss, you can't just quit and find a new job (well you might be able to but it'll delay you by years)
Takes long hard look at what the job will look like. Do you want to spend 5 years on a PhD plus 2-5 on post docs and fellowships, then compete ruthlessly for a position, then spend 10 more years working endlessly to get research funding? Be really realistic about what that looks like.
If you're like "nah, I'm going to find a job in industry" then skip the PhD and just go get a job.
If you go do research on how horrible academia is, and still want to do it, then maybe you should. But professors and programs will absolutely mislead you about the reality. They are the 1% who beat the system and won. Odds are you won't be.
It sounds like the OP is going into a DDS/PhD program. I used to help train those in these programs, and in my experience all have stepped into teaching positions in dental schools fairly easily. Every single one had a tenure track faculty position before they defended their thesis.
This is one place where I believe that this is an excellent track if she has the interest. Faculty in dental schools is aging, and while a PhD is not a requirement, it IS well considered when stepping into these positions.
I used to work in strictly academia, but worked within a dental school (which is why I worked with DDS/PhD students) on the PhD side of their degree. I would never recommend anyone get a PhD in the sciences these days, expecting to work in academia. This is the one exception.
Congratulations! I did not have children when I was in my PhD program, but I know of several people who did. It takes a lot of self-discipline and a supportive partner.
Some questions to think about - what is the average time a student in the program takes to complete the PhD? What are the courses required for the degree? With the stipend, are there any teaching assistantship requirements? Stipends are taxed differently from income, and if you have a tuition waiver, check how that is reported/taxed.
The professional relationship with your PhD advisor is critical. Definitely try to talk to current students to see if the environment is a good fit for you.
M6 biggest suggestion is to choose your mentor VERY carefully. There are a few mentors where the students had wayyyy more difficulty than they should have. If you can talk to someone who has gotten their PhD through a particular mentor, it might be best.
Between residency and PhD, you’ll have no life. It does loosen up some once your residency requirements are completed, but in my experience, that time usually goes to the lab. But it is more flexible.
I did my PhD while H did med school/residency. Your DDS/PhD situation, I would think, would be a little different than the strictly PhD situation that many of us have experienced.
It will be a lot of work. The MD/PhD students in my husband’s med school all dropped out of the PhD program.
Another thing to consider is how much longer the PhD program will make your residency and how much longer you can go without earning your final salary.
Understand exactly what you are hoping to get out of it, and why a PhD is necessary to achieve that.
However long they tell you it will take, assume it will take longer. Your major profesor can hold you hostage as long as he/she wants to.
You are at the mercy of your professor. If they are the world's worst boss, you can't just quit and find a new job (well you might be able to but it'll delay you by years)
Takes long hard look at what the job will look like. Do you want to spend 5 years on a PhD plus 2-5 on post docs and fellowships, then compete ruthlessly for a position, then spend 10 more years working endlessly to get research funding? Be really realistic about what that looks like.
If you're like "nah, I'm going to find a job in industry" then skip the PhD and just go get a job.
If you go do research on how horrible academia is, and still want to do it, then maybe you should. But professors and programs will absolutely mislead you about the reality. They are the 1% who beat the system and won. Odds are you won't be.
It sounds like the OP is going into a DDS/PhD program. I used to help train those in these programs, and in my experience all have stepped into teaching positions in dental schools fairly easily. Every single one had a tenure track faculty position before they defended their thesis.
This is one place where I believe that this is an excellent track if she has the interest. Faculty in dental schools is aging, and while a PhD is not a requirement, it IS well considered when stepping into these positions.
I used to work in strictly academia, but worked within a dental school (which is why I worked with DDS/PhD students) on the PhD side of their degree. I would never recommend anyone get a PhD in the sciences these days, expecting to work in academia. This is the one exception.
Thank you and to everyone else for your advice! As mich1 says, I will be in a dental residency/PhD track, so my situation might be a bit different but I am definitely going to be asking a lot of questions and be wary of my commitments.
I did my PhD while H did med school/residency. Your DDS/PhD situation, I would think, would be a little different than the strictly PhD situation that many of us have experienced.
It will be a lot of work. The MD/PhD students in my husband’s med school all dropped out of the PhD program.
Another thing to consider is how much longer the PhD program will make your residency and how much longer you can go without earning your final salary.
Yes, this is a consideration. I will be talking to the school about this. I don't think I could have done DDS and a PhD. I would have dropped out too. But this is not a super crazy intensive residency, so I have some hope of balancing both.
I only came in here because I’ve recently thought about getting my PhD so I can go the community college route of teaching. I also remember the 8 years of MA and PhD for my husband all too well, and I’m not sure if I want to do that to my family (although he handles stress poorly lol).
Congratulations! Good luck in every aspect.
Do you need a PhD to teach community college? I thought just MS? Maybe REGIONAL
Ditto the sentiment of making sure you know what the plan is and whether a PhD serves that plan. It's a great idea for some people, but those ppl are a very very small percentage of the ppl who actually get a Ph.D. As someone who worked in a cancer research lab for over a decade, I can tell you that all the hard work in the world doesn't guarantee success, and your timelines can be completely out of your control. It can be a labor of love, but it can also derail your career or pigeon hole you into jobs you don't want.
It sounds like the OP is going into a DDS/PhD program. I used to help train those in these programs, and in my experience all have stepped into teaching positions in dental schools fairly easily. Every single one had a tenure track faculty position before they defended their thesis.
This is one place where I believe that this is an excellent track if she has the interest. Faculty in dental schools is aging, and while a PhD is not a requirement, it IS well considered when stepping into these positions.
I used to work in strictly academia, but worked within a dental school (which is why I worked with DDS/PhD students) on the PhD side of their degree. I would never recommend anyone get a PhD in the sciences these days, expecting to work in academia. This is the one exception.
Thank you and to everyone else for your advice! As mich1 says, I will be in a dental residency/PhD track, so my situation might be a bit different but I am definitely going to be asking a lot of questions and be wary of my commitments.
Ooooh it's a joint program? That's a different beast altogether.
Thank you and to everyone else for your advice! As mich1 says, I will be in a dental residency/PhD track, so my situation might be a bit different but I am definitely going to be asking a lot of questions and be wary of my commitments.
Ooooh it's a joint program? That's a different beast altogether.
I did my PhD while H did med school/residency. Your DDS/PhD situation, I would think, would be a little different than the strictly PhD situation that many of us have experienced.
It will be a lot of work. The MD/PhD students in my husband’s med school all dropped out of the PhD program.
Another thing to consider is how much longer the PhD program will make your residency and how much longer you can go without earning your final salary.
Yes, this is a consideration. I will be talking to the school about this. I don't think I could have done DDS and a PhD. I would have dropped out too. But this is not a super crazy intensive residency, so I have some hope of balancing both.
That’s good - I’m basing all my assumptions on H’s ortho residency which was hell (we’re old enough for him to have entered his program prior to the mandatory 80 hour work week requirements). 5 years of Q3 call (last year was Q4 - yay!)
I only came in here because I’ve recently thought about getting my PhD so I can go the community college route of teaching. I also remember the 8 years of MA and PhD for my husband all too well, and I’m not sure if I want to do that to my family (although he handles stress poorly lol).
Congratulations! Good luck in every aspect.
Do you need a PhD to teach community college? I thought just MS? Maybe REGIONAL
Here you can adjunct with an MS but you need a PhD to be on faculty.
I know people have horror stories about their PhDs so as a counter point I’m going to say this: I loved my PhD. I think I loved every second of it. Independent research was my jam.
I interviewed advisors and chose one where expectations were clear and mindsets were similar. I also chose a lab/project that affected me personally.
I’ve described my PhD as me learning how to learn. It wasn’t about knowing every thing in science but more learning how to ask the right questions to get the right answers and think critically at every level of an experiment. For myself, this level of synthesis would never have happened for me at master’s level research.
I knew that I did not want to become a PI so I’ve translated these skills 100% to my industry job. I have no regrets over pursuing my PhD and it can be a great experience.
But I have friend with other stories. And so do other people in this thread. I
EDIT - my PhD was six years, I post doced for five years then became a staff scientist for a year before moving to industry. I’m two years into industry now.
I’m gonna assume PI doesn’t mean private investigator here??
Principal Investigator. I had no inclination for this either because the better you get, the more political the position becomes. My PI was a phenomenal PI/politician. He let me run with projects, and I got to play in the lab. It was great because I got a lot of input as to both how to do things and new projects. I was incredibly lucky in that I was able to work with the same PI for over 30 years (in 4 different institutions). That rarely happens these days though. Before I left, I knew what he wanted before he wanted it. He is 10 years older than me....,and is part of this group of aging faculty that is going to need to be replaced.
Post by cinnamoncox0 on Feb 9, 2019 20:33:12 GMT -5
I don’t have any advice, but I just wanted to say you are such a badass with your drive and accomplishments and I’m always in awe/impressed by the things you have done and are doing. You are living your best life. I’m sorry things aren’t great marriage wise right now (I’ll delete this if you want I didn’t see a pdq on this part). Are you trying a therapist together or is there no time? You’re fantastic good luck in this program although you don’t need luck you’re rocking life.
I don’t have any advice, but I just wanted to say you are such a badass with your drive and accomplishments and I’m always in awe/impressed by the things you have done and are doing. You are living your best life. I’m sorry things aren’t great marriage wise right now (I’ll delete this if you want I didn’t see a pdq on this part). Are you trying a therapist together or is there no time? You’re fantastic good luck in this program although you don’t need luck you’re rocking life.
Not creepy just really impressed:) !
Thank you. I do appreciate your wishes because I need all the luck I can get lol.
Post by 2boys2danes on Feb 9, 2019 22:20:57 GMT -5
First off, congrats to you -- sounds like an awesome program. I'm old so I did my PhD program 1992-1997. I was out of state but they waived my tuition and paid me a stipend which was nice. Make sure the stipend is a year round one and not like 9 months. And I agree, hook your wagon to a great prof who wants you to succeed quickly and not hold you up. Sounds like you have a great plan -- Good luck!
Which dental residency? I did my DDS + specialty, but did not do a PhD. My young undergrad self thought about doing it because all the cool Biology kids (I put myself in that category also LOL) were doing or discussing MD-PhD/DDS-PhD/regular PhD programs, but somehow I talked myself out of that one. That was probably the right decision. I had 12 years in clinical practice (that includes my 4 years of residency) before I wound up with a disability. After the disability everyone was like "go teach!" So I poked around on some school websites looking at job openings and although PhDs were sometimes sought, there seemed to be some opportunities without one. We certainly need academics in our field and it's awesome if that's your career goal, but realistically, most go into clinical practice because it's much more lucrative. Even as a disabled doctor, I still make more and have more flexibility with my kids owning a practice (and believe me I am a half-ass boss and phone it in way too much) than I would if I had to be a committed academic with or without a PhD.
I have my PhD in the same field as what you are looking into. My number one piece of advice would be to make sure you have a reason for why you want to go into the program. If you don’t have a defined goal of what you want to do with the degree, that can only be done with the degree, then don’t do it.
I came in to say exactly this. My story has a happier ending because I have a job that I love which requires a PhD (teaching at a liberal arts college). So I'm glad I did it--I think. But man, did it suck while I was in the depths of it. Soooo much anxiety and depression. This was pre-kid so I only had my husband to screw up. I wouldn't say our marriage almost didn't make it, but it was definitely hard on us. Many labs (I am in chemistry) have an expectation of ~60 hours/week of work, including at least one weekend day. Some biology research can require odd hours for cell cultures or animal studies. The only reason I stayed in my program was because I felt this strong calling to teach college, and getting a PhD put me in the best position to do that. If you feel similarly, then go for it! But I would carefully evaluate your motivations first.