I have never understood this argument about changing pads. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% “splurge on whatever baby item you want to splurge on”, but regular changing pads can be used without a cover. I chose to use a cover, but the material of our $30 changing pad is such that it is 100% waterproof and wipeable and doesn’t NEED a cover. The keekaroo wouldn’t have worked for us due to size, but I also just never understood the wipeable versus not wipeable selling point. Do they actually sell changing pads that aren’t waterproof and wipeable?
I think I just assumed that since they were sold with covers that they weren’t waterproof? IDK, it was confusing and I was barely (ok, bit really) keeping my shit together during pregnancy. I’m now mildly disappointed that we spent so much money if we could’ve gotten the same functionality for less. Oh well! It’s done.
Well the overall look and material in nicer on the keekaroo (& lord knows I splurged on some questionable purchases lol). I know people love them, so it might still be a great purchase, that point just always confused me.
So basically it’s safer because your kid won’t fall asleep in it. The only safe baby products are the ones that keep you and your kid awake as long as possible.
This is what it's beginning to sound like to me. I don't have any infants or any plans to have an infant again so I have no dog in this fight. But god I remember how brutally hard it was. My first baby literally didn't sleep in longer than two hour stretches for 4 months. I almost lost my damned mind.
When it comes to these issues, I feel like there is very little attention paid to why parents need these things. The implication is almost that we're being lazy. There's a lot of shaming about unsafe sleep practices (i.e. using swings, Rock-N-Play, car seats, etc. all of which I admit that I used or tried) but very little attention paid to the hardship of long term sleep deprivation and what parents can do about that.
Between the pressure to breastfeed and the back to sleep campaign (plus the lack of mandated maternity leave, what can mom do to get some sleep? Sleep is so central to mental health. And yet we wonder why PPD is so common in this country.
Newborns need to sleep, too. Sleep is rather important to that developing brain.
This whole situation is a mess. We need a fresh perspective and approach to the entire issue.
I've got to say all of this is bringing up really bad memories and feelings.
+1
I also can’t believe this got the axe before the dockatot. My son is a pretty crappy sleeper (7.5 months and still waking to nurse every 3-4 hours around the clock) but that was one product I was too afraid to ever try. And I’ve been pretty desperate — add me to the list of parents who have set themselves up for much greater risk of death (unsafe driving, accidentally passing out in a chair while nursing in an attempt to avoid bed sharing). Infant sleep has really impacted my life more than I would have expected.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Apr 13, 2019 17:57:28 GMT -5
I just googled the dockatot. I'd just assumed from the name it was safe, because I figured it was for toddlers, and they can sleep pretty much however they want. But... holy crap, how is it even legal to sell that thing?!?! I mean, how is that supposed to be any better than a nest of pillows and blankets?
Confession. I really want a dockatot, I'm just too cheap. It would be to use on the couch next to me though, not for unattended sleep.
Maybe try a boppy lounger? It was a lifesaver when I had my second. That pillow went everywhere so I could set ds down. (I didn’t have it with my first so not sure if it’s just awesome or my kid just like it). He never slept on it but just happily chilled on it where ever set it in the house.
Is the snoo unsafe? I almost bought one in desperation MOTN for ds. Both my kids slept in rock n plays and I think I would splurge on a snoo if we had a hypothetical third. (Both my kids were crappy sleepers and the rock n play wasn’t magical but it was better then flat or on my chest. They did 2-3 hour stretches before they were 4 months old/rolling and we moved them to the crib)
I just googled the dockatot. I'd just assumed from the name it was safe, because I figured it was for toddlers, and they can sleep pretty much however they want. But... holy crap, how is it even legal to sell that thing?!?! I mean, how is that supposed to be any better than a nest of pillows and blankets?
Supposedly the sides are breathable. No clue. My old coworker and his wife used one for a long time, and that was what she said. Of course even if that’s true, it still doesn’t fall within AAP recommendations, as it’s not a firm mattress.
I just googled the dockatot. I'd just assumed from the name it was safe, because I figured it was for toddlers, and they can sleep pretty much however they want. But... holy crap, how is it even legal to sell that thing?!?! I mean, how is that supposed to be any better than a nest of pillows and blankets?
Supposedly the sides are breathable. No clue. My old coworker and his wife used one for a long time, and that was what she said. Of course even if that’s true, it still doesn’t fall within AAP recommendations, as it’s not a firm mattress.
The Canadian government has refused to allow them to sell it as a sleeping device. The explanation on their website and the limited approved uses are pretty obvious.
Supposedly the sides are breathable. No clue. My old coworker and his wife used one for a long time, and that was what she said. Of course even if that’s true, it still doesn’t fall within AAP recommendations, as it’s not a firm mattress.
The Canadian government has refused to allow them to sell it as a sleeping device. The explanation on their website and the limited approved uses are pretty obvious.
Oh, they’re most definitely not a safe sleeping device...for a number of reasons. I was just giving an example of an excuse I have heard from parents who have used them as to how it is different than a pile of pillows.
I mean, the entire thing is ridiculous. The website suggests it as an overnight cosleeper. Ummm...what?!
Is the snoo unsafe? I almost bought one in desperation MOTN for ds. Both my kids slept in rock n plays and I think I would splurge on a snoo if we had a hypothetical third. (Both my kids were crappy sleepers and the rock n play wasn’t magical but it was better then flat or on my chest. They did 2-3 hour stretches before they were 4 months old/rolling and we moved them to the crib)
From my research yes. It was created by a pediatrician who is a well known sleep expert and has won safety awards.
Is the snoo unsafe? I almost bought one in desperation MOTN for ds. Both my kids slept in rock n plays and I think I would splurge on a snoo if we had a hypothetical third. (Both my kids were crappy sleepers and the rock n play wasn’t magical but it was better then flat or on my chest. They did 2-3 hour stretches before they were 4 months old/rolling and we moved them to the crib)
Babies in the snoo sleep flat and strapped in. If it makes you feel better about not trying it, we had one gifted to us, but weren't able to use it until DD's reflux eased up at around 3 months. MOTN feedings, diaper changes, and the transition to daycare sleep (no swaddles allowed) were hard since there is no way to use the motion and sound of the snoo without the baby being fully swaddled. It also turns off completely if the baby cries for more than a few minutes and I felt it "gave up" too easily.
This might be a stupid question, but is rebreathing a concern with mesh? DD sleeps in a Halo Bassinest with full mesh sides. Every night she scootches herself as close to us as she can get and when I wake up she’s on her side with her face pressed against the mesh.
This might be a stupid question, but is rebreathing a concern with mesh? DD sleeps in a Halo Bassinest with full mesh sides. Every night she scootches herself as close to us as she can get and when I wake up she’s on her side with her face pressed against the mesh.
No. The mesh allows airflow. E1 did the same thing in the PNP when he was little.
Confession. I really want a dockatot, I'm just too cheap. It would be to use on the couch next to me though, not for unattended sleep.
So my LC calls them overpriced dog beds... and if you think about it, she’s kind of right. I would not personally put my kid in a dog bed but the concept really is kinda the same.
Confession. I really want a dockatot, I'm just too cheap. It would be to use on the couch next to me though, not for unattended sleep.
So my LC calls them overpriced dog beds... and if you think about it, she’s kind of right. I would not personally put my kid in a dog bed but the concept really is kinda the same.
The Canadian government has refused to allow them to sell it as a sleeping device. The explanation on their website and the limited approved uses are pretty obvious.
Oh, they’re most definitely not a safe sleeping device...for a number of reasons. I was just giving an example of an excuse I have heard from parents who have used them as to how it is different than a pile of pillows.
I mean, the entire thing is ridiculous. The website suggests it as an overnight cosleeper. Ummm...what?!
It feels criminal. But maybe since they haven’t sold nearly as many as the RNP they’re skating by for now?
I’ve heard the “breathable” argument when an IRL mom friend was trying to talk me into one and I had to actively work to keep my eyebrows down. No no no no.
Confession. I really want a dockatot, I'm just too cheap. It would be to use on the couch next to me though, not for unattended sleep.
I also registered for a boppy lounger instead of the dockatot as I am too afraid of the dockatot. I’ve heard great things about the boppy lounger. I plan to use it for the exact same reasons.
Confession. I really want a dockatot, I'm just too cheap. It would be to use on the couch next to me though, not for unattended sleep.
I had a dockatot and boppy lounger. The boppy lounger is great for infants use as you described. DS was pretty small (5.9 lbs at birth) and I would put him on that on the couch, bed, table to sleep next to me. He outgrew it pretty quickly, but I loved it.
I returned the dockatot. I bought it when I was trying to transition my DS out of the RNP. It didn’t make him any less of a shitty sleeper and I didn’t think it made cosleeping any safer (which is its purpose). We ended up full on cosleeping and then transitioning him to his crib.
Is the snoo unsafe? I almost bought one in desperation MOTN for ds. Both my kids slept in rock n plays and I think I would splurge on a snoo if we had a hypothetical third. (Both my kids were crappy sleepers and the rock n play wasn’t magical but it was better then flat or on my chest. They did 2-3 hour stretches before they were 4 months old/rolling and we moved them to the crib)
From my research yes. It was created by a pediatrician who is a well known sleep expert and has won safety awards.
The Snoo doesn’t meet safety standards which is why it’s called a baby bed / sleeper and not a bassinet. The use of the positioner in it (the swaddle that holds the baby down) is not safe, and it doesn’t work without the baby being in the positioner. If you use just the bassinet part of it, it’s safe but then it’s just a really expensive bassinet.
The Snoo doesn’t meet safety standards which is why it’s called a baby bed / sleeper and not a bassinet. The use of the positioner in it (the swaddle that holds the baby down) is not safe, and it doesn’t work without the baby being in the positioner. If you use just the bassinet part of it, it’s safe but then it’s just a really expensive bassinet.
Can you say more about this? Though I didn't love the product, I was never able to find any resources indicating safety risks with the snoo. I don't know if "bassinet" is a regulated term, but if it is, they do use it on the snoo website: "SNOO is a responsive bassinet that boosts sleep for babies—and parents!".
Post by mccallister84 on Apr 14, 2019 7:56:05 GMT -5
In one of my local mom group FB pages someone shared a screenshot where FP had specifically responded to a message from a parent saying that the baby could safely sleep in the rock n play all night. The mom has messaged them saying her pediatrician said it was unsafe and FP responded that it was safe for overnight sleep.
The Snoo doesn’t meet safety standards which is why it’s called a baby bed / sleeper and not a bassinet. The use of the positioner in it (the swaddle that holds the baby down) is not safe, and it doesn’t work without the baby being in the positioner. If you use just the bassinet part of it, it’s safe but then it’s just a really expensive bassinet.
Can you say more about this? Though I didn't love the product, I was never able to find any resources indicating safety risks with the snoo. I don't know if "bassinet" is a regulated term, but if it is, they do use it on the snoo website: "SNOO is a responsive bassinet that boosts sleep for babies—and parents!".
Bassinet is a regulated term. The bassinet part of the Snoo is safe. However, the “Snoo sacks” that are included are not safe — those are the things that swaddle but also position the baby by attaching to the bassinet. Because they position they baby, they are “sleep positioners” and not safe, which is why the whole product is a “smart sleeper” (not a regulated term).
This is what it's beginning to sound like to me. I don't have any infants or any plans to have an infant again so I have no dog in this fight. But god I remember how brutally hard it was. My first baby literally didn't sleep in longer than two hour stretches for 4 months. I almost lost my damned mind.
When it comes to these issues, I feel like there is very little attention paid to why parents need these things. The implication is almost that we're being lazy. There's a lot of shaming about unsafe sleep practices (i.e. using swings, Rock-N-Play, car seats, etc. all of which I admit that I used or tried) but very little attention paid to the hardship of long term sleep deprivation and what parents can do about that.
Between the pressure to breastfeed and the back to sleep campaign (plus the lack of mandated maternity leave, what can mom do to get some sleep? Sleep is so central to mental health. And yet we wonder why PPD is so common in this country.
Newborns need to sleep, too. Sleep is rather important to that developing brain.
This whole situation is a mess. We need a fresh perspective and approach to the entire issue.
Yeah I hate the one sided approach to this, the solution is always for kids to just sleep flat in an empty crib at all times - but many babies absolutely won’t and a human can only take so much sleep deprivation before they crack.
Also If five million kids slept in a rock n play doesn’t that also affect the numbers? That’s a huge volume of babies. Like how many babies die in cribs over a 10 year period? Things dont exist in a vacuum.
Just glad I don’t still have an infant because I remember how frickin hard it is when they just won’t sleep, and this would be a very difficult decision for me.
Can you say more about this? Though I didn't love the product, I was never able to find any resources indicating safety risks with the snoo. I don't know if "bassinet" is a regulated term, but if it is, they do use it on the snoo website: "SNOO is a responsive bassinet that boosts sleep for babies—and parents!".
Bassinet is a regulated term. The bassinet part of the Snoo is safe. However, the “Snoo sacks” that are included are not safe — those are the things that swaddle but also position the baby by attaching to the bassinet. Because they position they baby, they are “sleep positioners” and not safe, which is why the whole product is a “smart sleeper” (not a regulated term).
I think this is less black and white than it’s a positioner because it positions the baby. The snoo is a bassinet that moves, and without the anchored swaddle, that motion is absolutely not safe. Because its primary purpose is to keep the baby from hitting sides of the bassinet while it is moving (not to hold the baby in a particular sleep position) it seems different from a sleep positioner to me. The whole product is also designed to sleep babies on their backs with zero fabric anywhere near the face, which to me seems consistent with the guidance against positioners, just accomplishing the end goal in a different way.
Anyway, if there are studies or examples of babies being harmed by a snoo, I just wanted to know since we still have the thing.
I think this is less black and white than it’s a positioner because it positions the baby. The snoo is a bassinet that moves, and without the anchored swaddle, that motion is absolutely not safe. Because its primary purpose is to keep the baby from hitting sides of the bassinet while it is moving (not to hold the baby in a particular sleep position) it seems different from a sleep positioner to me. The whole product is also designed to sleep babies on their backs with zero fabric anywhere near the face, which to me seems consistent with the guidance against positioners, just accomplishing the end goal in a different way.
Anyway, if there are studies or examples of babies being harmed by a snoo, I just wanted to know since we still have the thing.
The sponsored Google link and emails from Happiest Baby all refer to the Snoo as a bassinet, FWIW.
The evidence based sleep group on FB has discussions about rolling to belly in the Snoo sack. It is different than the old school sleep positioners for sure, but still inhibits movement of the baby just like positioners do — the danger isn’t in the initial placement of the baby, but what happens when the baby then moves in an unintended way and can’t get into a safe position because the positioner restricts movement. Even that link says it’s “approved for use with baby” but not doesn’t say approved for sleep. I would specifically ask if the Snoo sacks have been approved (because the bassinet is, just not the sacks) and by what agency. The FDA has said that any positioner devices should submit a 501k to show it can be used safely for sleep and they have not done so. There are other things about it that also don’t meet safe sleep recommendations — they say it can be used for 6 months or when baby is on hands and knees (not after being able to roll). AAP recommendation for swaddling is 8 weeks. The extended legs are also considered positioners and not recommended or approved. As I’ve said in other posts we definitely need guidance on incremental safe sleep methods, and I don’t fault parents at all for using them. But the Snoo doesn’t meet current guidance. Here’s the link from the FDA that says that any product designed to hold an infant on his back should not be used: www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm227575.htm
Bassinets must have a sleep surface that is within 10 degrees of flat. The extended legs of the SNOO make it an inclined sleeper, which is 10-30 degrees, rather than a sleep positioner.
Regarding other products that make claims of breatability, there is no standard or test for breathability. Well, there is one test from Britain, but it’s from the 70s. So if anyone is making claims of breath ability, ask how they proved it.
This is why I think there will be dockatot deaths. They are HEAVILY recommended in BFing groups as a “safer” way to cosleeping. But then parents are using them to transition from cosleeping to crib. It’s not the intended or safe use and it’s scary.
This is why I think there will be dockatot deaths. They are HEAVILY recommended in BFing groups as a “safer” way to cosleeping. But then parents are using them to transition from cosleeping to crib. It’s not the intended or safe use and it’s scary.
It’s not even safe for cosleeping, it’s “intended” use. It makes absolutely zero sense that it is suggested for cosleeping, but not for a crib. Their face can still get smushed into the side, even if they are sleeping right next to you.