April book club - There, There by Tommy Orange

[minzy]

Thoughts, opinions, comments? Discuss.

[minzy]

I thought this was an interesting look at many issues within Native American culture. I liked how different characters were used, though it was initially difficult to keep them all straight. Still, I thought the details were rich and great. I thought the technique of making the chapters shorter as the story went on was very effective at conveying a rising panic as you got closer to the events at the pow-wow; that was masterful, in my opinion. With all the talk about spiders and webs, he did weave a pretty good story, cranking things tighter and tighter until the end, and you felt like you were trapped right along with everybody else in the coliseum.

I didn’t know much about the book going in except that it was about a pow-wow, so was caught a little off guard with the mass shooting, but appreciated(?) the timeliness(?) of a present day mass shooting in America, the drone usage, the 3D printed gun. Unfortunately, it felt very possible that such a thing could happen. Of course, it was very symbolic about the continued crush of disadvantage stacking the deck against Native Americans, and I really hoped for a different outcome. (At the same time, I wanted to know what exactly the outcome was. Would Orvil or Edwin survive? Would Blue talk with her mom? Etc. I thought it ended kind of abruptly.) I wanted the theft to be thwarted, and them all not to have to go through yet another awful thing.

I’ve read a few of Sherman Alexie’s books and there were definitely similar themes in terms of the disadvantages facing Native Americans. This author notably brings an urban perspective, whereas Sherman Alexie talked a bit more about being on a reservation. Especially since Sherman Alexie was wrapped up in the #metoo stuff, I am glad for another voice (and I saw that Tommy Orange acknowledged Alexie at the end).

[ufcasey]

tagging people who may have read this book:

meowmaps, toepick, Gato, travella, rainbowchip, aurora

[travella]

I wasn't sure how to rate this book. There were aspects that I liked and those that I didn't. I liked how the characters were written, but I still struggled to connect to them. There were too many main characters and the chapters were too short to really connect to any of them. I probably would have enjoyed the book more had I known that all the characters were connected some how and kept track of who was related to whom and how from the start.....however, I didn't realize that until later in the book and I didn't want to go back at that point.

I liked how the book covered some of the lesser known issues of the urban Native American. These are issues that I had some insight into from stories from my grandfather who was a local police officer for a district with a nearby reservation. The stories in the book ring true to what I remember being told by him when I was younger.

The ending was a let down. I expected more. It felt rushed. In the end I gave it 3*.

[meowmaps]

I really liked this book. I’m a little murky on the details since I read it late last year so I don’t think I can contribute much.

I also found it difficult to keep all the different characters straight and even had to go back at the end to make sure I knew who was who. I liked how everything snowballed to culminate in the pow-wow and the various connections between characters. Tommy Orange has a way with words.

I learned a lot. I had never heard of the Alcatraz takeover before.

Mostly, I felt sad and angry on behalf of Native Americans.

[aurora]

Apr 25, 2019 9:19:57 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

tagging people who may have read this book:

meowmaps, toepick, Gato, travella, rainbowchip, aurora

I'm at 90%! I'll be back after my bus ride home to read and comment.

[dontlook]

Apr 25, 2019 10:05:45 GMT -5 travella said:

I wasn't sure how to rate this book. There were aspects that I liked and those that I didn't. I liked how the characters were written, but I still struggled to connect to them. There were too many main characters and the chapters were too short to really connect to any of them. I probably would have enjoyed the book more had I known that all the characters were connected some how and kept track of who was related to whom and how from the start.....however, I didn't realize that until later in the book and I didn't want to go back at that point.

I liked how the book covered some of the lesser known issues of the urban Native American. These are issues that I had some insight into from stories from my grandfather who was a local police officer for a district with a nearby reservation. The stories in the book ring true to what I remember being told by him when I was younger.

The ending was a let down. I expected more. It felt rushed. In the end I gave it 3*.

I agree with this. Way too many characters to keep track of. I’m glad I read the book but I’m surprised it’s getting so much hype since I felt it fell flat at the end.

[sarahswim]

I was confused by the multiple characters as well. I found myself flipping back and forth way too often. I did love how the characters ended up connected to one another-I tried to predict some of the connections but couldn't because I wasn't great at keeping everyone straight.

I really wanted more of a wrap up at the end but I get how that was part of his point-the disappointment, hardship, and loss woven through all of their lives is heartbreaking. There is so much I didn't know about the history of Native Americans-the book itself was just so sad. I'm glad I read it, though-I want to find a few other articles about the author and his own story.

[expectantsteelerfan]

I wasn't bothered by the abrupt ending, but maybe that was because I wasn't emotionally invested in any of the characters? Even though I read the book in 2 days (because I JUST got it from the library!) I lost track of a few of the stories, but didn't care enough to even go back and figure it out, but then when the stories converged at the end, I wished I had but felt it was too late at that point.
I thought the book overall was eye opening for me about the struggles of current Native people, which is something that was not really on my radar previously. Parts of it were so well written and resonated as universal truths. I as glad to have read it even though there were some issues.

[tacokick]

I started it but didn’t really get engaged by it,
unfortunately. I did get my library to buy it so hopefully others will enjoy it more.

[rainbowchip]

I agree that the characters were so hard to keep track of. I liked most of the stories as I read them but it was frustrating how the book jumped around in time with no real connection between the stories. It made it really confusing and less enjoyable. He should have ditched half the characters and expanded the others and maybe kept it chronological.

Once the shooting started I became very uneasy. It's way too realistic that I, or my family, would get caught up in a shooting and it's really really scary. I was a little confused as to what exactly happened because that also jumped around a lot in time. So did any of the "robbers" survive?

I also do not like books that leave endings so vague. Am I really not supposed to care of these characters lived or died?

[aurora]

I thought it was a great book. I have always liked multiple perspective books, and Orange did a really nice job IMO letting the characters tell whatever stories they wanted to for us to get to know them (in much the same way as Dene's video grant), then weaving them together over the course of the book. I liked how it told a modern story to make visible some Native Americans living in a modern city.

It's driving me crazy not to be sure who actually survived at the end, so I guess that must have been a well-done plot device (because I'm still thinking about it). I'm especially wondering about Orvil...we were so close to hearing from Opal's perspective!

I did have a little trouble remembering which character had which background in the middle, but it would have been easier if I wasn't so lazy about flipping back to my index on Kindle.



I'm not sure I'd re-read it, but I'm glad we picked it for book club.

[aurora]

Apr 25, 2019 22:56:36 GMT -5 rainbowchip said:

...I also do not like books that leave endings so vague. Am I really not supposed to care of these characters lived or died?

I think the fact that you do care, and yet still wonder, is a powerful plot device! How often in life do we actually know the endings to stories?

[aurora]

Apr 24, 2019 22:01:28 GMT -5 minzy said:

I thought this was an interesting look at many issues within Native American culture. I liked how different characters were used, though it was initially difficult to keep them all straight. Still, I thought the details were rich and great. I thought the technique of making the chapters shorter as the story went on was very effective at conveying a rising panic as you got closer to the events at the pow-wow; that was masterful, in my opinion. With all the talk about spiders and webs, he did weave a pretty good story, cranking things tighter and tighter until the end, and you felt like you were trapped right along with everybody else in the coliseum.
...

Yes, definitely!

If you're looking for a happy, well-wrapped, feel good story, this isn't it. But if you're looking for someone who's quite good at using literary techniques to create a compelling story, I think it is!

[rainbowchip]

Apr 26, 2019 19:27:15 GMT -5 aurora said:

Apr 25, 2019 22:56:36 GMT -5 rainbowchip said:

...I also do not like books that leave endings so vague. Am I really not supposed to care of these characters lived or died?

I think the fact that you do care, and yet still wonder, is a powerful plot device! How often in life do we actually know the endings to stories?

I HATE not knowing stuff! IRL I get super annoyed when I don't know what's going on. So in my reading, I need to know!!! I really dislike books that don't tie stuff up in the end.

[wesleycrusher]

I finished it this morning and I am just going to +1 everything minzy said.

I did feel connected to some characters more that others. I liked Orvil the best.

[CrazyLucky]

I liked the first part, introducing the first set of characters. After that, I spent a lot of time flipping back and forth, trying to figure out who was related to whom. It was kid of frustrating. I thought the characters were interesting, but not fully fleshed out. Like, for the most part, you just learned one aspect of each character.
The ending killed it for me. I did not like it at all. Why did they start shooting each other? Why did they bring so many bullets if the original plan was just theft? How many bullets can a plastic gun fire before it melts? Did Orvil or Edwin survive? Did Edwin get to talk to his father? Did Blue talk to her mother? Too many loose ends and questions for me.

I also read the original book chosen for this month - The Woman in the Window. I will say I liked There There much better than that one.

[Gato]

@crazylucky I felt the same way you did. Great book up until the ending, but that was implausible to me. It seemed forced, when so much else about the story and characters had felt so real up until then.

I did really like the book and put it in my top ten favorites read last year. I wish I could remember more so I could come up with something insightful to say!

[aurora]

May 1, 2019 7:28:31 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

I liked the first part, introducing the first set of characters. After that, I spent a lot of time flipping back and forth, trying to figure out who was related to whom. It was kid of frustrating. I thought the characters were interesting, but not fully fleshed out. Like, for the most part, you just learned one aspect of each character.
The ending killed it for me. I did not like it at all. Why did they start shooting each other? Why did they bring so many bullets if the original plan was just theft? How many bullets can a plastic gun fire before it melts? Did Orvil or Edwin survive? Did Edwin get to talk to his father? Did Blue talk to her mother? Too many loose ends and questions for me.

I also read the original book chosen for this month - The Woman in the Window. I will say I liked There There much better than that one.

I agree that's exactly what he did, and it was very purposeful (following the same idea he outlined in Dene's grant application, where everyone chooses the story they want to tell about themselves). It really made me think as a reader! Why is this what this character wants to tell me?