Post by litebright on May 12, 2019 22:10:41 GMT -5
I thought Arya was dead like three times. And each one reminded me that GoT is and has always been a ruthless show where you can't count on anyone being safe. It felt very possible that she could be trampled or burned to death on the streets of KL two weeks after killing the NK, because there was just so much madness in the episode.
I’m so glad Arya survived, due to her unnatural ability to withstand concussions!
I’d read that GRRM had a bleak view of human nature, and this episode sure conformed to that. But everyone acted as their characters would, except for Tyrion, who is still disappointingly hazy. Jaime and Cersei didn’t go down as I expected, but that did feel to me like a good and correct ending for them.
Surely Tyrion and Jon will turn against Dany. I expect she won’t make it to the end of the final episode. Will she start accusing people of treason right and left, including Sansa? Will Tyrion die in an attempt to save Sansa? Will Jon have to chose family over Dany? And if Dany dies, no one will want the throne, so how will they conclude this thing? I can’t wait.
Jon you fucking idiot. The writing has been on the goddamn wall and this is ON YOU. THIS IS WHY SANSA DIDNT KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT. YOU GODDAMN MORON. YOU TOO TYRION.
I’d like to change the name of the show to listen to Sansa.
But how has the writing been on the wall? Where has she been shown as a merciless, insane queen before tonight? She was all about freeing slaves and stopping soldiers raping before crossing the sea. This is shit writing. 🤷🏻♀️
You’d think after last week, getting to look Cersci in the eye would be more desirable that her possibly escaping or being buried in the rubble.
I am so upset at them ruining Brienne with this ending. They should not have even had Jamie sleep with her if he was just going to run back to Cersci. I hate these writers so so much.
Also, somehow the fleet took out a dragon in like two shots last week and this week the dragon can just fly around without a single shot landing??
Jon you fucking idiot. The writing has been on the goddamn wall and this is ON YOU. THIS IS WHY SANSA DIDNT KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT. YOU GODDAMN MORON. YOU TOO TYRION.
I’d like to change the name of the show to listen to Sansa.
But how has the writing been on the wall? Where has she been shown as a merciless, insane queen before tonight? She was all about freeing slaves and stopping soldiers raping before crossing the sea. This is shit writing. 🤷🏻♀️
You’d think after last week, getting to look Cersci in the eye would be more desirable that her possibly escaping or being buried in the rubble.
I am so upset at them ruining Brienne with this ending. They should not have even had Jamie sleep with her if he was just going to run back to Cersci. I hate these writers so so much.
Also, somehow the fleet took out a dragon in like two shots last week and this week the dragon can just fly around without a single shot landing??
Just ugh.
Executing the Tarlys should have been a pretty big clue for Jon. He knows nothing. Listen to Sansa. Or even Ygritte
Jon you fucking idiot. The writing has been on the goddamn wall and this is ON YOU. THIS IS WHY SANSA DIDNT KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT. YOU GODDAMN MORON. YOU TOO TYRION.
I’d like to change the name of the show to listen to Sansa.
But how has the writing been on the wall? Where has she been shown as a merciless, insane queen before tonight? She was all about freeing slaves and stopping soldiers raping before crossing the sea. This is shit writing. 🤷🏻♀️
You’d think after last week, getting to look Cersci in the eye would be more desirable that her possibly escaping or being buried in the rubble.
I am so upset at them ruining Brienne with this ending. They should not have even had Jamie sleep with her if he was just going to run back to Cersci. I hate these writers so so much.
Also, somehow the fleet took out a dragon in like two shots last week and this week the dragon can just fly around without a single shot landing??
Just ugh.
She has always always ruled by fear and has to be talked out of her worst impulses. And even then she wasn’t always talked out of it. It’s been obvious in every interaction in this season and last that she is not a good ruler and doesn’t care about the people. It has been heavy handed in the show in my opinion (but obvious). She’s jealous, she burns food and doesn’t give a shit, she threatens Sansa. She’s never wanted to work collaboratively really and seeing people loving others (like Sansa) just made her crazier. But it was particularly obvious this season and it has always been 100% obvious that this whole Jon and Dany relationship was not a love story but a tragedy (to the viewers but people didn’t want to see it).
Dany was always going to be the final villain. Probably someone can find posts on here from years ago where I said it too.
Maybe a lot of that is from a viewer’s perspective but there were plenty of moments this season where it was clear Dany was not a good ruler and was consumed with the throne. And where Jon knew she was scary and capable of terrible things. Tyrion too. They just hoped they could keep her from this I guess. Look how that worked out!
I'm sad that all these wonderful tv shows choke in the final seasons. It's almost like they overestimate their cleverness. So many plot points could have more layers added to them. We don't need a watered down version of the story.
For example, when killing the NK, they could have had a stark alliance take him down. While Bran sat as bait, Jon on Rhaegal(RIP) rain fire and while the NK aims his spear to take him, Arya could have stabbed him.
Euron who is possibly the most useless character on TV has so much history with Yara. And it has no payoff. Why did Theon rescue Yara? I thought it was for a rival Greyjoy fleet to show up. Why did Euron kill Jaime? They have no history together and their fight was so pointless. Why did Cersei tell Euron she is pregnant with his child? why did Euron never mention that after Tyrion outs it?
IDK, there are so many amazing possibilities and the current story is so monotonous and simplistic.
And though the writing was terrible, I loved the way the episode was directed. It truly captured the horrors of war and made it clear that Dany needs to go. I loved Qyburn's death. I loved Emilia's acting right before Dany went mad. I loved the shock on Jon's face while he killed a fellow Northman. I like that they took the perspective of Arya, a hardened killer who was completely shaken by the horror. But also, why didn't Arya fight with Sandor and then leave after they fell? Why just waste Arya as a witness?? idk
But how has the writing been on the wall? Where has she been shown as a merciless, insane queen before tonight? She was all about freeing slaves and stopping soldiers raping before crossing the sea. This is shit writing. 🤷🏻♀️
You’d think after last week, getting to look Cersci in the eye would be more desirable that her possibly escaping or being buried in the rubble.
I am so upset at them ruining Brienne with this ending. They should not have even had Jamie sleep with her if he was just going to run back to Cersci. I hate these writers so so much.
Also, somehow the fleet took out a dragon in like two shots last week and this week the dragon can just fly around without a single shot landing??
Just ugh.
She has always always ruled by fear and has to be talked out of her worst impulses. And even then she wasn’t always talked out of it. It’s been obvious in every interaction in this season and last that she is not a good ruler and doesn’t care about the people. It has been heavy handed in the show in my opinion (but obvious). She’s jealous, she burns food and doesn’t give a shit, she threatens Sansa. She’s never wanted to work collaboratively really and seeing people loving others (like Sansa) just made her crazier. But it was particularly obvious this season and it has always been 100% obvious that this whole Jon and Dany relationship was not a love story but a tragedy (to the viewers but people didn’t want to see it).
Dany was always going to be the final villain. Probably someone can find posts on here from years ago where I said it too.
Maybe a lot of that is from a viewer’s perspective but there were plenty of moments this season where it was clear Dany was not a good ruler and was consumed with the throne. And where Jon knew she was scary and capable of terrible things. Tyrion too. They just hoped they could keep her from this I guess. Look how that worked out!
I mean, a lot of that is for the viewers. As a viewer I’m not shocked at this and wasn’t expecting Dany and Jon to live happily ever after (their “relationship” is so bizarre to me, but that’s a mix of zero chemistry between the actors and again, rushing to stick them together without showing the development). I was questioning the in-show “she’s crazy!” conclusions. I just think there wasn’t enough character development to get from Dany of the first 6 seasons to the Dany of the 8th season.
If he kills Dragon Lady he’s going to have to also kill Soldier Boy.
Just to be clear. People seem to like him. He’s not going to let her die and just let Johnny Boy stroll off. So prepare for that I guess.
He seems like a coward right now so not sure too many people would cry over him at this point. Plus I think his character has been the biggest victim of this pacing and no time. Who even is he right now?
I loved Jon for a long time but at this point I’m like die, or don’t, and just fuck off to be all emo by yourself. Either way, bye.
She has always always ruled by fear and has to be talked out of her worst impulses. And even then she wasn’t always talked out of it. It’s been obvious in every interaction in this season and last that she is not a good ruler and doesn’t care about the people. It has been heavy handed in the show in my opinion (but obvious). She’s jealous, she burns food and doesn’t give a shit, she threatens Sansa. She’s never wanted to work collaboratively really and seeing people loving others (like Sansa) just made her crazier. But it was particularly obvious this season and it has always been 100% obvious that this whole Jon and Dany relationship was not a love story but a tragedy (to the viewers but people didn’t want to see it).
Dany was always going to be the final villain. Probably someone can find posts on here from years ago where I said it too.
Maybe a lot of that is from a viewer’s perspective but there were plenty of moments this season where it was clear Dany was not a good ruler and was consumed with the throne. And where Jon knew she was scary and capable of terrible things. Tyrion too. They just hoped they could keep her from this I guess. Look how that worked out!
I mean, a lot of that is for the viewers. As a viewer I’m not shocked at this and wasn’t expecting Dany and Jon to live happily ever after (their “relationship” is so bizarre to me, but that’s a mix of zero chemistry between the actors and again, rushing to stick them together without showing the development). I was questioning the in-show “she’s crazy!” conclusions. I just think there wasn’t enough character development to get from Dany of the first 6 seasons to the Dany of the 8th season.
Jon witnessed a lot over the past two seasons and it is specifically some of his interactions with dany that I thought telegraphed who she was. Same with Tyrion.
Post by suburbanzookeeper on May 12, 2019 23:32:36 GMT -5
I stand by my first post in this thread. The writing jumped the shark this season in all of their eagerness to wrap it up. Theon had an amazing arc and glorious death, Jorah too... but this, my goodness. There were a handful of great deaths but overall I pretty much watched with a solid WTF look the whole time.
If he kills Dragon Lady he’s going to have to also kill Soldier Boy.
Just to be clear. People seem to like him. He’s not going to let her die and just let Johnny Boy stroll off. So prepare for that I guess.
He seems like a coward right now so not sure too many people would cry over him at this point. Plus I think his character has been the biggest victim of this pacing and no time. Who even is he right now?
I loved Jon for a long time but at this point I’m like die, or don’t, and just fuck off to be all emo by yourself. Either way, bye.
I'm thinking/ hoping he'll take off to the North just like Bilbo left the Shire at the end of it all.
Can we just stop and talk about the best moment of this episode for a minute - where right as Clegane Bowl is about to start and the Mountain has killed Qyburn, Cersei is just like, "Well clearly this is none of my business," and just peaces out? LMAO!!! Somehow this scene was both hilarious and exactly fitting for Cersei, and for the Hound and the Mountain to just ignore her because they are so focused on each other.
Can we just stop and talk about the best moment of this episode for a minute - where right as Clegane Bowl is about to start and the Mountain has killed Qyburn, Cersei is just like, "Well clearly this is none of my business," and just peaces out? LMAO!!! Somehow this scene was both hilarious and exactly fitting for Cersei, and for the Hound and the Mountain to just ignore her because they are so focused on each other.
But how has the writing been on the wall? Where has she been shown as a merciless, insane queen before tonight? She was all about freeing slaves and stopping soldiers raping before crossing the sea. This is shit writing. 🤷🏻♀️
You’d think after last week, getting to look Cersci in the eye would be more desirable that her possibly escaping or being buried in the rubble.
I am so upset at them ruining Brienne with this ending. They should not have even had Jamie sleep with her if he was just going to run back to Cersci. I hate these writers so so much.
Also, somehow the fleet took out a dragon in like two shots last week and this week the dragon can just fly around without a single shot landing??
Just ugh.
She has always always ruled by fear and has to be talked out of her worst impulses. And even then she wasn’t always talked out of it. It’s been obvious in every interaction in this season and last that she is not a good ruler and doesn’t care about the people. It has been heavy handed in the show in my opinion (but obvious). She’s jealous, she burns food and doesn’t give a shit, she threatens Sansa. She’s never wanted to work collaboratively really and seeing people loving others (like Sansa) just made her crazier. But it was particularly obvious this season and it has always been 100% obvious that this whole Jon and Dany relationship was not a love story but a tragedy (to the viewers but people didn’t want to see it).
Dany was always going to be the final villain. Probably someone can find posts on here from years ago where I said it too.
Maybe a lot of that is from a viewer’s perspective but there were plenty of moments this season where it was clear Dany was not a good ruler and was consumed with the throne. And where Jon knew she was scary and capable of terrible things. Tyrion too. They just hoped they could keep her from this I guess. Look how that worked out!
This.
The show runners have sprinkled in a lot of these "Mad Queen" elements since earlier seasons. They were there. She's been the "savior" and the tyrant since she came to power with her dragons and armies. It's truly tragic. A once beloved and sympathetic character can become the show's ultimate villain.
This article explains it well. One thing is certain, this season, especially Dany's evolution into "Mad Queen," feels rushed. It could have been handled better.
Post by foundmylazybum on May 13, 2019 0:57:35 GMT -5
Generally speaking it annoys me that Dany : a character who has built armies from nothing, raised three dragons from stone eggs, been on the run bc her whole family was killed..etc etc is labeled as "mad," for being ambitious and okay..she makes harsh decisions. Meanwhile Jon, who is by all accounts mediocre and doesnt even want the job is labeled as "a hero" and a good leader 🙄
In terms of the episode, I cant really figure out why she just totally lost it and was burning down everything. Like the stress of losing so much combined with wanting the iron throne THAT BADLY?
It just felt forced.
Plus side?
Euron is dead! Ring the bells! Questions: that guy was basically a sniper pulling off kill shots last week. Pure luck? Because this week, he barely got off two shit rounds and then the deadly Scorpions at kings landing were also big flops.
Will Tyrion try to kill Dany? Now that he sees how wrong he was, to try and make up for his mistake and the innocent people killed, and also maybe as an echo of his Kinglsayer brother's legacy of killing the mad tyrant to save the kingdom? Or will she kill him before he can try, since he betrayed her again (letting Jaime go free, I assume she'll find out about that)?
I'm sad that all these wonderful tv shows choke in the final seasons. It's almost like they overestimate their cleverness. So many plot points could have more layers added to them. We don't need a watered down version of the story.
For example, when killing the NK, they could have had a stark alliance take him down. While Bran sat as bait, Jon on Rhaegal(RIP) rain fire and while the NK aims his spear to take him, Arya could have stabbed him.
Euron who is possibly the most useless character on TV has so much history with Yara. And it has no payoff. Why did Theon rescue Yara? I thought it was for a rival Greyjoy fleet to show up. Why did Euron kill Jaime? They have no history together and their fight was so pointless. Why did Cersei tell Euron she is pregnant with his child? why did Euron never mention that after Tyrion outs it?
IDK, there are so many amazing possibilities and the current story is so monotonous and simplistic.
euron - with their fight, i expected at least a “the queen is pregnant with my child” and the Jamie just starts laughing at him and tells him that no, it’s not his kid.
There was “nothing”’about that scene and it was pointless, especially as Jamie goes on to find Cersei and they both die. Um.... ok.
Post by karinothing on May 13, 2019 5:39:11 GMT -5
I really did not feel like Dany burning the city was forced or that unexpected. I mean I guess I did felt surprised in that I REALLY didn't think anyone could be that bad to take out an entire city of people. However, Dany has always had a bit of a heartless side. I mean sure she wants to free slaves from the masters but she always shown a great propensity for violence. And the books (and show) keeps mentioning the coin. We have two Targaryen's now. The coin flipped twice. It can't be expected to land on the peace and sanity side both times.
I do agree the pacing could have been better in the show, but I don't think it came out of nowhere.
I REALLY wanted Dany to fly to Cersei's window and blast her though.
The real tragedy is that Robert Baratheon was right.
Noble Ned Stark could take-up war but would not abide the murder of Targaryen children. We now understand that he was desperately shielding his own nephew from being targeted for murder. But Robert said Dany and her brother should be killed and even ordered it in season 1.
Dany lived. Look what happened.
She came back on a dragon and burned the city and everyone who lives there.