Game of Thrones S8 E5 discussion *spoilers*

[litebright]

Also, although I agree that just listening to the Hound and turning around didn't seem believable that early in the episode (I would have bought it later in the episode after she had seen more of the destruction of the city), I liked the fact that we saw Arya, kill-list Arya who has been so focused on revenge/murder, realize that she does want to live and that so much death and destruction can be too much even for her. And for her to turn immediately to trying to help complete strangers, and then to not be able to save them. It's an interesting change from two weeks ago where she was mowing down wights and stabbing the NK.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2019 23:06:48 GMT -5 pugz said:

I am frustrated they refused the two 10
episode seasons that HBO offered

This is where I'm at too. They could have taken more time to wrap these stories out. I know filming this season with its 55 evenings of night shoots had to suck ass big time, you're in the homestretch at that point. And if you take all the extra 15 and 20 minutes from this season, it wouldn't have been four full episodes more. 

[picksthemusic]

May 13, 2019 6:25:43 GMT -5 MrsDarcy said:

I 100% believe that since we didn’t literally see Jaime and Cersei get crushed, they’re still alive. They’ll come back.

This is what DH thinks - though, he's pretty sure Jamie is dead, but Cersei will crawl out of the rubble.

I'm super torn about last night's episode. I was severely underwhelmed with Jamie and Cersei's demise (?) - it felt so cheap and was such a letdown! But I loved Cleganebowl and how that ended. It was apt. Now, Dany burning the shit out of King's Landing, I mean - yes, she's been building up to it, I can see that. I guess I feel like since Varys went out like he did, and all the rest of it was done so poorly that it undermined this too. I don't know how to explain it.

[pugz]

I feel like the writers clearly said they were dead in their commentary after. “Born together/die together” comment

[karinothing]

I think jon could have show dany more love. I mean he says he loves her but doesnt want to be her nephew lover so she thinks she is alone? Why not remind her that they are family. She has not really had family love but she could maybe understand she is not alone. We know targaryens being alone is a dangerous thing.

[meganew]

May 13, 2019 0:57:35 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Generally speaking it annoys me that Dany : a character who has built armies from nothing, raised three dragons from stone eggs, been on the run bc her whole family was killed..etc etc is labeled as "mad," for being ambitious and okay..she makes harsh decisions. Meanwhile Jon, who is by all accounts mediocre and doesnt even want the job is labeled as "a hero" and a good leader 🙄


In terms of the episode, I cant really figure out why she just totally lost it and was burning down everything. Like the stress of losing so much combined with wanting the iron throne THAT BADLY?

It just felt forced.


Plus side?

Euron is dead! Ring the bells! Questions: that guy was basically a sniper pulling off kill shots last week. Pure luck? Because this week, he barely got off two shit rounds and then the deadly Scorpions at kings landing were also big flops.

A lot of gripes I get, but I don’t understand this one. Dany burnt the city to the ground! She massacred women and children! That’s not a tough decision, that’s going mad. I still don’t think it’s fitting for her character (because it feels rushed, not because I don’t think she’d get there eventually), but we have seen her bend this way before. I really don’t get the “Jon is mediocre” feel. He’s fought in how many battles? Won how many battles? (With help, of course). His moral compass is straight as an arrow. He’s united people under his leadership. I don’t get what’s so ugh about him.

[jeaniebueller]

May 13, 2019 9:30:07 GMT -5 @princessbubbleyum said:

May 12, 2019 21:59:05 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

If there is one thing we can all be greatful for, it’s that we no longer have to see unintentionally hilarious shots of Jamie’s golden hand.

You mean like him waving it at the guards hoping they'd see him and let him in? 

Any time a glimpse of that dumb hand was in a shot, it made me laugh. 

[msmerymac]

May 13, 2019 9:46:23 GMT -5 meganew said:

May 13, 2019 0:57:35 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Generally speaking it annoys me that Dany : a character who has built armies from nothing, raised three dragons from stone eggs, been on the run bc her whole family was killed..etc etc is labeled as "mad," for being ambitious and okay..she makes harsh decisions. Meanwhile Jon, who is by all accounts mediocre and doesnt even want the job is labeled as "a hero" and a good leader 🙄


In terms of the episode, I cant really figure out why she just totally lost it and was burning down everything. Like the stress of losing so much combined with wanting the iron throne THAT BADLY?

It just felt forced.


Plus side?

Euron is dead! Ring the bells! Questions: that guy was basically a sniper pulling off kill shots last week. Pure luck? Because this week, he barely got off two shit rounds and then the deadly Scorpions at kings landing were also big flops.

A lot of gripes I get, but I don’t understand this one. Dany burnt the city to the ground! She massacred women and children! That’s not a tough decision, that’s going mad. I still don’t think it’s fitting for her character (because it feels rushed, not because I don’t think she’d get there eventually), but we have seen her bend this way before. I really don’t get the “Jon is mediocre” feel. He’s fought in how many battles? Won how many battles? (With help, of course). His moral compass is straight as an arrow. He’s united people under his leadership. I don’t get what’s so ugh about him.

He's mostly won the battles in spite of himself, not due to his amazing skills. And characters with unshakable moral compasses have traditionally not fared well in this show - demonstrating you need to know how to play the game, like Sansa is doing. A few well-placed rumors, a bit of scheming and secret keeping on behalf of the greater good, all while walking the line to not become too power hungry a la Cersei or Dany. So, for example, someone a bit more clever would have kept the damn secret of Jon's parentage OR used it to their own advantage when needed in the future (like Sansa did).

[msmerymac]

May 13, 2019 9:47:14 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

May 13, 2019 9:30:07 GMT -5 @princessbubbleyum said:

You mean like him waving it at the guards hoping they'd see him and let him in? 

Any time a glimpse of that dumb hand was in a shot, it made me laugh. 

Probably my favorite line was when Tyrion asked if Jaime had considered taking the hand off while trying to sneak in and he said, "Cersei once said I was the stupidest Lannister."

[foundmylazybum]

May 13, 2019 9:33:38 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

May 13, 2019 6:25:43 GMT -5 MrsDarcy said:

I 100% believe that since we didn’t literally see Jaime and Cersei get crushed, they’re still alive. They’ll come back.

This is what DH thinks - though, he's pretty sure Jamie is dead, but Cersei will crawl out of the rubble.

I'm super torn about last night's episode. I was severely underwhelmed with Jamie and Cersei's demise (?) - it felt so cheap and was such a letdown! But I loved Cleganebowl and how that ended. It was apt. Now, Dany burning the shit out of King's Landing, I mean - yes, she's been building up to it, I can see that. I guess I feel like since Varys went out like he did, and all the rest of it was done so poorly that it undermined this too. I don't know how to explain it.

Serious question: In terms of plot, why in the world would Cersei crawl out of the rubble? And then do what? In the series finale? 

I'm just trying to play this out in my mind where this story would go. 

[CurlyQ284]

May 13, 2019 9:46:23 GMT -5 meganew said:

May 13, 2019 0:57:35 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Generally speaking it annoys me that Dany : a character who has built armies from nothing, raised three dragons from stone eggs, been on the run bc her whole family was killed..etc etc is labeled as "mad," for being ambitious and okay..she makes harsh decisions. Meanwhile Jon, who is by all accounts mediocre and doesnt even want the job is labeled as "a hero" and a good leader 🙄


In terms of the episode, I cant really figure out why she just totally lost it and was burning down everything. Like the stress of losing so much combined with wanting the iron throne THAT BADLY?

It just felt forced.


Plus side?

Euron is dead! Ring the bells! Questions: that guy was basically a sniper pulling off kill shots last week. Pure luck? Because this week, he barely got off two shit rounds and then the deadly Scorpions at kings landing were also big flops.

A lot of gripes I get, but I don’t understand this one. Dany burnt the city to the ground! She massacred women and children! That’s not a tough decision, that’s going mad. I still don’t think it’s fitting for her character (because it feels rushed, not because I don’t think she’d get there eventually), but we have seen her bend this way before. I really don’t get the “Jon is mediocre” feel. He’s fought in how many battles? Won how many battles? (With help, of course). His moral compass is straight as an arrow. He’s united people under his leadership. I don’t get what’s so ugh about him.

Yes. Last night when the commander of the Golden Company is unhorsed and sees the Dothraki coming he turns and tries to run terrified back to the city wall.

It looked almost exactly like the Battle of the Bastards when Jon Snow is alone after Rickon is killed and Ramsey sends the calvary. He looks resigned, then pulls out his sword and gets ready to fight even though he's sure he's going to die.

He held the wall when it was attacked by the wildlings and giants, and older men in the NW were hiding in the larder. He is the person they turned to when the night was darkest as Sam said.

He's not perfect, but he is not mediocre in my opinion. He's a standup guy.

[pugz]

It would be interesting to hear Dany’s inner monologue if it plays out the same in the books

[foundmylazybum]

May 13, 2019 9:46:23 GMT -5 meganew said:

May 13, 2019 0:57:35 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Generally speaking it annoys me that Dany : a character who has built armies from nothing, raised three dragons from stone eggs, been on the run bc her whole family was killed..etc etc is labeled as "mad," for being ambitious and okay..she makes harsh decisions. Meanwhile Jon, who is by all accounts mediocre and doesnt even want the job is labeled as "a hero" and a good leader 🙄


In terms of the episode, I cant really figure out why she just totally lost it and was burning down everything. Like the stress of losing so much combined with wanting the iron throne THAT BADLY?

It just felt forced.


Plus side?

Euron is dead! Ring the bells! Questions: that guy was basically a sniper pulling off kill shots last week. Pure luck? Because this week, he barely got off two shit rounds and then the deadly Scorpions at kings landing were also big flops.

A lot of gripes I get, but I don’t understand this one. Dany burnt the city to the ground! She massacred women and children! That’s not a tough decision, that’s going mad. I still don’t think it’s fitting for her character (because it feels rushed, not because I don’t think she’d get there eventually), but we have seen her bend this way before. I really don’t get the “Jon is mediocre” feel. He’s fought in how many battles? Won how many battles? (With help, of course). His moral compass is straight as an arrow. He’s united people under his leadership. I don’t get what’s so ugh about him.

Which battles did Jon win again? 

Like, on his own, by being a master tactician? He's a soldier, yes and a reasonably good one but he's also a reluctant one and a reluctant leader. Quite frankly he's pretty BAD at tactics and really only knows one style of battle which is to do formations and to fight with his big heavy sword and charge into things head on. He had to be completely rescued during the Battle of the Bastards by Sansa, he fled during Hardhome, his amazing leadership got Viserion killed, during the Battle for Winterfell he yelled and during this battle he was *kinda* a minor player. I mean, let's face it--the guy is no master general. As far as uniting people...I mean again--kinda. Remember back when he went to first see Lyanna Mormont and DAVOS had to get her on board lol! 
  
Both characters have strengths and weaknesses.  It's not like Dany has been clearly marching towards madness the entire show. She united a ton of people, freed thousands of slaves, built huge armies and worked from nothing. She showed a lot of kindness and worked (at a pace that made a lot of people want to fast forward) to improve herself as a leader as well. Now, because she burned it all and the show is presenting her in this way we all are grasping onto that evidence that she was cray and Jon was some great leader.  It's just interesting. 

[foundmylazybum]

The real crime was that Cersei died with that pixie cut

[suburbanzookeeper]

I have way less issue with how the game pieces are set now - Dany has lost her shit and burned it down (never been a fan of hers so meh), Jon realizes once again messing around with women are bad (why the crows don't take wives), Sansa is safely in the north, The Hound & Mountain fought it off, etc. and instead the roll out of how we got here. Imagine what character development could have been paced out with an extra SIX episodes in the last two seasons!

Also further proof the writers are men:
www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-the-bells-baffling-decision-to-turn-daenerys-into-a-crazy-murderous-ex-girlfriend?fbclid=IwAR2EXkuWK1y9WiT5z7Q4Uf05VfCwQ9SrxXU3kiI7UVfT8aBfAaLqDwMRo4g

[TR]

I just hope that in the next intro they show King’s Landing burned.

[thelurkylulu]

I think John is going to have to kill Dany because she is going to go after Sansa.

The episode sucked. It was like 45 minutes of dragon fire and innocent people dying. I have not invested years of my life for this shit! Ugh and didn’t the writers say something like they expect people to be angry after they watch the finale? I’m prepping myself to hate it already.

[taratru]

Now that I'm awake and thinking more, I was ALL IN on CLEGAAAAAAANNNNNE BOOOOWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLL!!!!! I've been dying for that, and Cersei just how do you doing her way by that might be one of my favorite scenes EVER.

There is so much to wrap up next week, I don't know how it's going to happen. AND we are going to see Trevor Noah that night, so I'm going to have to take the damn morning off on Monday to watch or something.

[CurlyQ284]

May 13, 2019 10:12:49 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

May 13, 2019 9:46:23 GMT -5 meganew said:

A lot of gripes I get, but I don’t understand this one. Dany burnt the city to the ground! She massacred women and children! That’s not a tough decision, that’s going mad. I still don’t think it’s fitting for her character (because it feels rushed, not because I don’t think she’d get there eventually), but we have seen her bend this way before. I really don’t get the “Jon is mediocre” feel. He’s fought in how many battles? Won how many battles? (With help, of course). His moral compass is straight as an arrow. He’s united people under his leadership. I don’t get what’s so ugh about him.

Which battles did Jon win again? 

Like, on his own, by being a master tactician? He's a soldier, yes and a reasonably good one but he's also a reluctant one and a reluctant leader. Quite frankly he's pretty BAD at tactics and really only knows one style of battle which is to do formations and to fight with his big heavy sword and charge into things head on. He had to be completely rescued during the Battle of the Bastards by Sansa, he fled during Hardhome, his amazing leadership got Viserion killed, during the Battle for Winterfell he yelled and during this battle he was *kinda* a minor player. I mean, let's face it--the guy is no master general. As far as uniting people...I mean again--kinda. Remember back when he went to first see Lyanna Mormont and DAVOS had to get her on board lol! 

Ok I disagree with pretty much all of this. He won the battle at the wall against the wildlings by himself and he brought the wildlings into the fold. I didn't see Sansa out there with a sword during the BotB. Yes she got the Knights of the Vale but I consider it a joint effort. Fleeing during Hardhome? That's really going to be held up against him? He had like 10 guys on an intended rescue mission against infinite zombies, what else was he supposed to do there?

I also don't figure how he got Visarion killed, they dragons were under Dany's orders when that happened.

He isn't a master general but Dany isn't either. Her strategy is just to burn shit down. She never even held a sword until she was dumped off of Drogon at Winterfell. I said last week the master military minds are all dead (Tywin, Robb, Tarly), this is what's left.

I just don't get where people are coming from. This is a Song of Ice and Fire. Jon is ice (Stark) and fire (Targ). All signs pointed to Jon from the beginning.

[2curlydogs]

A thread for everyone bitching.

[Dumbledork]

May 13, 2019 9:59:05 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

May 13, 2019 9:33:38 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

This is what DH thinks - though, he's pretty sure Jamie is dead, but Cersei will crawl out of the rubble.

I'm super torn about last night's episode. I was severely underwhelmed with Jamie and Cersei's demise (?) - it felt so cheap and was such a letdown! But I loved Cleganebowl and how that ended. It was apt. Now, Dany burning the shit out of King's Landing, I mean - yes, she's been building up to it, I can see that. I guess I feel like since Varys went out like he did, and all the rest of it was done so poorly that it undermined this too. I don't know how to explain it.

Serious question: In terms of plot, why in the world would Cersei crawl out of the rubble? And then do what? In the series finale? 

I'm just trying to play this out in my mind where this story would go. 

[

She has the baby and the baby is raised as the new Dany, running for its life and seeking vengeance.


I thought she burned the city to show the North what’s up if they don’t start being thankful for her help. She spent her army helping them instead of going after what she wanted and they basically brushed her to the side and raised Johnny Boy up in wonder and awe at riding a dragon.

If the North is to be ruled in fear, then this is a clear way to get the message kicked off.

[2curlydogs]

[taratru]

I don't know if anyone reads these consistently, but man, I love the NPR recaps.

www.npr.org/2019/05/13/722629681/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-let-it-be-fear

[MrsDarcy]

May 13, 2019 9:59:05 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

May 13, 2019 9:33:38 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

This is what DH thinks - though, he's pretty sure Jamie is dead, but Cersei will crawl out of the rubble.

I'm super torn about last night's episode. I was severely underwhelmed with Jamie and Cersei's demise (?) - it felt so cheap and was such a letdown! But I loved Cleganebowl and how that ended. It was apt. Now, Dany burning the shit out of King's Landing, I mean - yes, she's been building up to it, I can see that. I guess I feel like since Varys went out like he did, and all the rest of it was done so poorly that it undermined this too. I don't know how to explain it.

Serious question: In terms of plot, why in the world would Cersei crawl out of the rubble? And then do what? In the series finale? 

I'm just trying to play this out in my mind where this story would go. 

See, that’s the thing. There’s just not enough time. Perhaps so someone can actually kill her? I just feel like, like someone else said, her death was so easy. Dying in the arms of her love. Bah. She deserves worse (and yes, I know dying the way she did wasn’t peaceful or anything).

[flex]

Thoughts:
I think Arya listened to the voice of reason when The Hound told her to leave. I mean, she barely escaped with her life many times during the carnage, so she made the right decision. Now I did groan a bit when the white horse seemed to magically appear but perhaps there's a clue in there. Dany's first horse was white, right?

I did notice the looks on both Tyrion and Jon when Dany lost her shit. It was like "Oh damn...what have I done? She has to go."

I think Jon better get back to WF and protect Sansa before Dany gets there.

I was glad Varys did not scream.

[jeaniebueller]

May 13, 2019 10:46:44 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

A thread for everyone bitching.

I'm honestly convinced that GRRM has no idea how to end these fucking books

[CurlyQ284]

May 13, 2019 10:59:18 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

May 13, 2019 10:46:44 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

A thread for everyone bitching.

I'm honestly convinced that GRRM has no idea how to end these fucking books

He says something about writing like a garden, plant seeds and see what grows.

Ya planted too many seeds GRRM!
One thing I am thankful for with the show is that they eliminated all the fake characters pretending to be other people. Ugh prune GRRM! Prune!

[goldengirlz]

May 13, 2019 7:25:53 GMT -5 hermione said:

I feel like the writers don’t know what they’re doing with Arya. She’s been hellbent on killing Cersei since season 1. The idea that she’d get all the way to the Red Keep and turn around because the Hound tells her to is...odd.

I thought this at first too but having mulled it over a bit more, maybe she realized that her skills were needed elsewhere. The hound warned her that if she stayed in the Red Keep, she would die there. She knew he was right and wanted to be alive to fight Dany. Maybe?

[karinothing]

Dany's army was dothraki and unsullied. Merciless killers. Why would it end differently?

[wildrice]

I don't understand why people are saying nobody killed Cersei. Dany killed her. Maybe not in hand to hand combat but she destroyed her city and the building that was her home. I have to imagine her intent was largely to ensure Cersei died. Maybe it would have been satisfying to see someone stab her or strangle her but I think having her safe place in the city she ruled literally crumble on top of her was fitting.