Trump voter votes against his interests & doesn't understand

[suburbanzookeeper]

elections have consequences (title my own, obviously).


"He voted for Trump. Now he and his wife raise their son from opposite sides of the border"


www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-voter-immigration-family-separation-georgia-20190519-htmlstory.html

Jason listened to conservative Christian radio, and his favorite talking heads, like James Dobson, the evangelical psychologist who founded Focus on the Family, convinced him that electing Trump would lead to a Supreme Court that would overturn Roe vs. Wade, the landmark 1973 decision legalizing abortion.



Cecilia urged him to pay attention to Trump’s vows to build a wall along the southern border and amass a huge “deportation force.”


Jason told Cecilia not to worry, that the government wasn’t interested in her.



But she became increasingly fearful, scanning Univision broadcasts and local Facebook pages and showing him stories of people picked up by “la migra” when they were leaving for work or walking their kids to the school bus.



As immigration arrests surged, Cecilia became afraid to take Ashton to the park. She stopped driving. Her hair fell out in thick clumps.



What would happen if they came for her? Cecilia wondered. If they asked for her papers?



For the last few years, the couple had met with ICE once a year to renew Cecilia’s work permit. Under the Obama administration, ICE granted renewable work permits to many law-abiding immigrants who had been in the country at least five years.



But with their next appointment in November 2017, Jason and Cecilia had to decide: Should she go and risk being deported? Or should they skip the meeting, risking the possibility that ICE agents might knock on their door?



Ashton was 4. More than anything, Cecilia wanted to spare him the trauma of watching her be hauled away.



They decided to go to the ICE appointment with a plane ticket and a plan. If you allow us to spend Christmas and New Year’s together, they told the immigration agent, Cecilia would self-deport in January.



They were not sure it would work. As they waited at a cubicle, a woman sobbed as she was given a few moments to say goodbye to her young children. But the ICE agent agreed.



So they roasted a beef tenderloin over Thanksgiving and piled presents under the tree at Christmas. After New Year’s, Jason and Ashton flew with Cecilia to Guadalajara and took an Uber to her family’s home in the rural town of Juanacatlán.



It was Jason’s first time in Mexico and he was shocked by the poverty of her hometown. Stray dogs roamed the dirt roads, and mosquitoes buzzed inside homes with no air conditioning or drinkable tap water. Locals ran tiendas inside their rundown homes.



Unbelievable to him, there was no McDonald’s or Walmart.



Until then, Jason had not really grasped why his wife took the risk of crossing the border for a better life.



But God wanted his family to be together, he felt sure. Eventually, immigration officials would consider that Cecilia was married to an American citizen and had a child in the U.S.



“Mommy will be home soon,” he promised Ashton.

[seeyalater52]

Classic. Other people in the same situation are “bad” and “undeserving” but not them. When voting, this guy prioritized a hypothetical ban on abortion over his OWN family. He deserved exactly what he got.

His wife and child on the other hand, I feel awful for. She saw the writing on the wall and he just steamrolled right over her.

[bowies]

Toxic masculinity at its finest. Dude couldn’t resist having his input on what a stranger does with her body at the expense of his own wife. I bet everyone in his life gets to listen to him wax on about his suffering.

[tacokick]

I can’t imagine being with someone like this. Did he think she was exaggerating the threat or the conditions of her hometown?

[Jalapeñomel]

May 19, 2019 16:48:55 GMT -5 tacokick said:

I can’t imagine being with someone like this. Did he think she was exaggerating the threat or the conditions of her hometown?

Yes. And that Trump wouldn’t take his family, only the other families...or worse, that Trump wouldn’t actually do what he said he’d do.

[ESF]

I strongly dislike the phrase voting against one’s own interest when applied to these situations.

People like this are not voting against their own interests as their interests are seeing white supremacy upheld and strengthened.

[biscoffcookies]

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump despite his wife's pleas and the rhetoric because Trump promised to help overturn Roe. And he says that even with what's happening that he's not sure he made a mistake because it was for the "greater good" of ending abortion and "God will bless his decision."

I don't understand how the GOP has successfully made abortion an issue that blinds their followers to everything else.

[msmerymac]

May 19, 2019 17:29:28 GMT -5 ESF said:

I strongly dislike the phrase voting against one’s own interest when applied to these situations.

People like this are not voting against their own interests as their interests are seeing white supremacy upheld and strengthened.

I mean, obviously his wife being deported is not in this guy's best interest, but we're on track for Roe v. Wade to be overturned, so that's something!

I just finished Strangers in the Own Land on audio. While I don't want to be all, "Conservatives: they're just like us!" about it, it did really clarify the "voting against their own interests" thing. The author talked to tons of self-identified members of the Tea Party in rural Louisiana, most of whom liked Trump and voted for Bobby Jindal too, and despite most of them having been affected by honest-to-god visible and tangible pollution due to lax corporate regulations (including some being driven out of their own homes due to sink holes or pollution, or developing cancer or other issues), that wasn't necessarily their concern when voting. And showing them that it was important would... not really be possible.

[msmerymac]

May 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump despite his wife's pleas and the rhetoric because Trump promised to help overturn Roe. And he says that even with what's happening that he's not sure he made a mistake because it was for the "greater good" of ending abortion and "God will bless his decision."

I don't understand how the GOP has successfully made abortion an issue that blinds their followers to everything else.

For some it's abortion, but for some it's immigration, and some it's the general concept of "small government" or "lower taxes" or job creation through less regulation. Everyone has their pet cause, or a combination philosophy consisting of most of the above. 

[tacokick]

May 19, 2019 18:05:58 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

May 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump despite his wife's pleas and the rhetoric because Trump promised to help overturn Roe. And he says that even with what's happening that he's not sure he made a mistake because it was for the "greater good" of ending abortion and "God will bless his decision."

I don't understand how the GOP has successfully made abortion an issue that blinds their followers to everything else.

For some it's abortion, but for some it's immigration, and some it's the general concept of "small government" or "lower taxes" or job creation through less regulation. Everyone has their pet cause, or a combination philosophy consisting of most of the above. 

I really think it shows a serious dearth of critical thinking skills being taught at school at any level. How you can be so obsessed with one issue that it overrides your ability to understand or care about anything else shows a real lack of imagination, reasoning skills and straight up common sense. I know many millions of adults are barely functionally literate and I think that is a huge issue as well.

[pitta12]

May 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump despite his wife's pleas and the rhetoric because Trump promised to help overturn Roe. And he says that even with what's happening that he's not sure he made a mistake because it was for the "greater good" of ending abortion and "God will bless his decision."

I don't understand how the GOP has successfully made abortion an issue that blinds their followers to everything else.

This is a good article about how the Republicans used abortion to get conservative Catholics on their side. Unsurprisingly, they gave no shits about abortion until that point and their real goal was maintaining segregation.

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133

[isabel]

May 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump despite his wife's pleas and the rhetoric because Trump promised to help overturn Roe. And he says that even with what's happening that he's not sure he made a mistake because it was for the "greater good" of ending abortion and "God will bless his decision."

I don't understand how the GOP has successfully made abortion an issue that blinds their followers to everything else.

I am completely fascinated by this. 

My aunt voted for Trump. She really grappled with her decision, per my mom, because of the abortion issue. Ultimately, that was a big enough deal to her to make her vote for Trump over Hillary. I just really cannot understand how this single issue became such a point of contention for people. Especially when the GOP could give a flying fuck about children once they are born, or adults who are struggling and need a social safety net, as my aunt most surely does. 

[ECB]

Fuck this asshole and all the assholes like him. He was shocked there was no Walmart or McDonald’s? Really?!?

And i agree - I’m confounded at how abortion has really become the ONE and only issue these people care about.

[livinitup]

This is the same guy who would be SHOCKED that his wife couldn’t get abortion services after an incomplete miscarriage like Savita Halappanavar.

[bowies]

Abortion has become a touchstone for those who don’t feel in control or particularly great about who/where they are. It’s a quick fix to hop on that bandwagon of “saving innocent lives,” as if that will stick to them and make them better people. It’s an identity thing. It’s a societal thing as we become isolated from each other. It’s hand in hand with the last desperate grabs at a paternalistic society that rewards little effort from white men and the “traditional” women who love them. It’s also an issue in which the consequences may never be felt, and so it becomes easier to moralize from that privilege.

There’s a reason why evangelicals (and other charismatic leaders) can get a hold on so many people. It’s psychology.

[pixy0stix]

The ignorance of these people still astounds me. I guess the republican agenda of dumbing down our general population has worked very well.

[Jalapeñomel]

May 19, 2019 18:05:58 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

May 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump despite his wife's pleas and the rhetoric because Trump promised to help overturn Roe. And he says that even with what's happening that he's not sure he made a mistake because it was for the "greater good" of ending abortion and "God will bless his decision."

I don't understand how the GOP has successfully made abortion an issue that blinds their followers to everything else.

For some it's abortion, but for some it's immigration, and some it's the general concept of "small government" or "lower taxes" or job creation through less regulation. Everyone has their pet cause, or a combination philosophy consisting of most of the above. 

Yes, it’s not just a Republican thing either.

[cville]

May 19, 2019 19:40:00 GMT -5 bowies said:

Abortion has become a touchstone for those who don’t feel in control or particularly great about who/where they are. It’s a quick fix to hop on that bandwagon of “saving innocent lives,” as if that will stick to them and make them better people. It’s an identity thing. It’s a societal thing as we become isolated from each other. It’s hand in hand with the last desperate grabs at a paternalistic society that rewards little effort from white men and the “traditional” women who love them. It’s also an issue in which the consequences may never be felt, and so it becomes easier to moralize from that privilege.

There’s a reason why evangelicals (and other charismatic leaders) can get a hold on so many people. It’s psychology.

I'd never put it together in my head exactly this way before, but it makes perfect sense.  It's the barbaric yawp of "I'm a good person, goddamnit" from the lazy, entitled, do-nothings who want to hold on to their white supremacy with their fingernails.

[katieinthecity]

There was a similar story on The Daily last Thursday, they talked to a guy who owns a company building trucks somewhere in the midwest. In one breath he talked about how the tariffs and immigration policies are hurting his business, and in the next he talked about how he voted for and still supports Trump. Even the reporter was like... so, the presidents two biggest policies are hurting you and yet... you support him? And he was like, well, Americans have to sacrifice to make our country safe. The troops go off to war and risk their lives, my sacrifice is nothing compared to that.

www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/podcasts/the-daily/trump-tariffs-china-trade-war.html

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

[eddy]

May 19, 2019 19:40:00 GMT -5 bowies said:

Abortion has become a touchstone for those who don’t feel in control or particularly great about who/where they are. It’s a quick fix to hop on that bandwagon of “saving innocent lives,” as if that will stick to them and make them better people. It’s an identity thing. It’s a societal thing as we become isolated from each other. It’s hand in hand with the last desperate grabs at a paternalistic society that rewards little effort from white men and the “traditional” women who love them. It’s also an issue in which the consequences may never be felt, and so it becomes easier to moralize from that privilege.

There’s a reason why evangelicals (and other charismatic leaders) can get a hold on so many people. It’s psychology.

Is it weird that I want to get this on a cross-stitch or something lol. 

PREACH

[msmerymac]

May 19, 2019 18:26:27 GMT -5 tacokick said:

May 19, 2019 18:05:58 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

For some it's abortion, but for some it's immigration, and some it's the general concept of "small government" or "lower taxes" or job creation through less regulation. Everyone has their pet cause, or a combination philosophy consisting of most of the above. 

I really think it shows a serious dearth of critical thinking skills being taught at school at any level. How you can be so obsessed with one issue that it overrides your ability to understand or care about anything else shows a real lack of imagination, reasoning skills and straight up common sense. I know many millions of adults are barely functionally literate and I think that is a huge issue as well.

It's not that - maybe this guy claims abortion is number one. Fine. But it's more like... a totally different world view. Like a brain that works differently. I don't know. Obviously they're wrong, but it's not as simple as, "the GOP is harming you, idiot."

[ECB]

May 20, 2019 8:16:44 GMT -5 katieinthecity said:

There was a similar story on The Daily last Thursday, they talked to a guy who owns a company building trucks somewhere in the midwest. In one breath he talked about how the tariffs and immigration policies are hurting his business, and in the next he talked about how he voted for and still supports Trump. Even the reporter was like... so, the presidents two biggest policies are hurting you and yet... you support him? And he was like, well, Americans have to sacrifice to make our country safe. The troops go off to war and risk their lives, my sacrifice is nothing compared to that.

www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/podcasts/the-daily/trump-tariffs-china-trade-war.html

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

This is also what I don't understand.  These people really think that a WALL is going to be what makes our country safe??  

The true threat to our country isn't immigrants from Mexico.  The fact that these yahoos refuse to see that and insist that a stupid wall will make safe.... the narrow focus and refusal to look outside of this amazes me. 

[Velar Fricative]

May 20, 2019 8:16:44 GMT -5 katieinthecity said:

There was a similar story on The Daily last Thursday, they talked to a guy who owns a company building trucks somewhere in the midwest. In one breath he talked about how the tariffs and immigration policies are hurting his business, and in the next he talked about how he voted for and still supports Trump. Even the reporter was like... so, the presidents two biggest policies are hurting you and yet... you support him? And he was like, well, Americans have to sacrifice to make our country safe. The troops go off to war and risk their lives, my sacrifice is nothing compared to that.

www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/podcasts/the-daily/trump-tariffs-china-trade-war.html

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

So there really is something to that ridiculousness that Tom Cotton was spewing recently. People legitimately believe it, and it's not them voting against their interests, they're voting for the interests that but aren't coming out and saying it because it's not "politically correct," but hey, Trump said he'd get rid of political correctness so they can be free to say they don't want black and brown people in this country anymore!

[wambam]

May 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

He was an Obama voter who voted for Trump 

I know these people exist, but goddamn. HOW?

[scout8]

I sort of get this. I'm a white, upper middle class business owner. Most of the GOP's policies do benefit me. Yet, I still vote Dem all the time, because there are way more issues that are important to me. I'm not necessarily going to vote for the candidate that might be best for me personally. Even though I 100% disagree with these people, I can understand their reasoning. Well, maybe not the guy that was willing to lose his wife, but some of the other examples.

[jeaniebueller]

May 20, 2019 8:16:44 GMT -5 katieinthecity said:

There was a similar story on The Daily last Thursday, they talked to a guy who owns a company building trucks somewhere in the midwest. In one breath he talked about how the tariffs and immigration policies are hurting his business, and in the next he talked about how he voted for and still supports Trump. Even the reporter was like... so, the presidents two biggest policies are hurting you and yet... you support him? And he was like, well, Americans have to sacrifice to make our country safe. The troops go off to war and risk their lives, my sacrifice is nothing compared to that.

www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/podcasts/the-daily/trump-tariffs-china-trade-war.html

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

this is where I get annoyed at the Never Trump GOP pundits (Joe Scarborough et al) acting like once the tarriffs hurt, trump's base will turn against him. THEY WON:T

[boiler717]

May 20, 2019 8:56:40 GMT -5 scout8 said:

I sort of get this. I'm a white, upper middle class business owner. Most of the GOP's policies do benefit me. Yet, I still vote Dem all the time, because there are way more issues that are important to me. I'm not necessarily going to vote for the candidate that might be best for me personally. Even though I 100% disagree with these people, I can understand their reasoning. Well, maybe not the guy that was willing to lose his wife, but some of the other examples.

Buttigieg talks about this a lot — how we condemn Trump voters for voting against their interests when plenty of Dems do it as well. It comes across as “knowing whats best for poor people/immigrant families/etc.” Clearly Dem policies are more beneficial, but that may not be someone’s primary concern.

[downtoearth]

That is so heart-breaking, but the worst is the last two lines... he still thinks he voted for the greater good of the country, despite realizing that the majority of these cases are not criminals and drug lords, but normal people, like his wife, who just wants a better life for herself and her future family.

God that article hurt my guts. Why can't he vote for more taxes for public education… that would hurt his family, but be for the greater good. Voting to deport people who are working and living in the US to find a better way to life is NOT for the greater good.

Sometimes he feels stupid or duped or betrayed. But then he thinks back to how he didn’t vote for himself personally but for the greater good — for what he sees as the “noble” cause of outlawing abortion.

“Was it a bad decision for my family? Yes,” he said. “Was it a bad decision for our country? I can’t say. Sometimes you can’t just think about yourself. You have to think about the broader picture.… I feel like God will bless my decision.”

[sonrisa]

May 19, 2019 17:29:28 GMT -5 ESF said:

I strongly dislike the phrase voting against one’s own interest when applied to these situations.

People like this are not voting against their own interests as their interests are seeing white supremacy upheld and strengthened.

There are plenty of abusive men out there who use lack of immigration status as a way to control their wives. 

He saw her fear and it's physical manifestations. He saw her cower. He saw her hide. He still voted for Trump and doesn't regret it. Trump might very well serve his personal interests.

[taratru]

Simple solutions for simple minds. I think we see that on both sides. The lack of critical thinking skills has only grown with the current methods of media consumption, and this kind of decision making illustrates it. I don't feel one bit of bad for this guy or anyone like him, but my heart breaks for his wife and child. That woman was a pawn in his own game of control.