Post by secretlyevil on Jun 27, 2019 11:13:03 GMT -5
The wired mouths and the masks, my empathy and anxiety levels went through the roof.
The beheaded Abraham Lincoln, the prayer service in the mall. Holy fuck was that beyond disturbing. Then the silence on the credits - creepy. I got chills in a bad way.
Aunt Lydia is such a conundrum. She is probably the only true believer in the lot.
Post by foundmylazybum on Jun 27, 2019 12:28:24 GMT -5
I thought the episode had some problems honestly...and some problems are starting to creep up in the season.
In a structure like Gilead where the health of the handmaid's is paramount for pregnancy, you are going to wire their mouths shut?
Aunt lydia..who has used cattle prods on the girls and consistently is one of the true believers in the Gilead system suddenly says she doesnt want the women silenced and is comforting june?
The scene where they put on the collar, it was super tight, and then 5 min later June is able to basically take it off like a scarf?
Some of what is happening in this episode and previous episodes is there for shock value, and then no true consequence for June in particular. I get it..it would be incredibly difficult to see June truly suffer but...they keep setting the stage for her to suffer then nothing bc it's her. In a way it's happened to Fred too. Its hamstringing the plot line truly moving forward
Fred was just demoted and now hes being offered a potential promotion?
And there are problems with Nick and June! I'm not going to lie, I watch the show in part bc of their romance. I'm a shipper lol. They set the scenario for him to be one of her allies and..what!?
I Aunt lydia..who has used cattle prods on the girls and consistently is one of the true believers in the Gilead system suddenly says she doesnt want the women silenced and is comforting june?
I don’t see why this seems far fetched. Aunt Lydia doesn’t see herself as evil. She is loving, she cares for her “girls,” she wants them to thrive (within the confines of being handmaids). She doesn’t want them silenced (though they would all ideally submit to their duties and praise the leaders of Gilead for the privilege). She understands why June seeing someone in the same position as herself but with her mouth wired shut is scary. She’s shown herself to be comforting and kind in her own way over and over through these seasons. That scene was believable to me.
The scene where they put on the collar, it was super tight, and then 5 min later June is able to basically take it off like a scarf?
This criticism is odd to me too. Do you think they switched out the costume piece between scenes? Plenty of materials stretch or have flexibility. Those collars aren’t muzzles. They’re there to hide the unsightly wires.
I Aunt lydia..who has used cattle prods on the girls and consistently is one of the true believers in the Gilead system suddenly says she doesnt want the women silenced and is comforting june?
I don’t see why this seems far fetched. Aunt Lydia doesn’t see herself as evil. She is loving, she cares for her “girls,” she wants them to thrive (within the confines of being handmaids). She doesn’t want them silenced (though they would all ideally submit to their duties and praise the leaders of Gilead for the privilege). She understands why June seeing someone in the same position as herself but with her mouth wired shut is scary. She’s shown herself to be comforting and kind in her own way over and over through these seasons. That scene was believable to me.
Yes. In so many ways Aunt Lydia's relationship to the handmaids mirrors that of an abusive partner or parent. I think she sees the cattle prod and all the other shit as her way of protecting the handmaids from something worse, like ending up on the wall. Not letting her off the hook here - she is culpable for all the suffering she and the other Aunts and the entire power structure of Gilead has caused. But I don't think her intent was ever to cause any more suffering than necessary to keep the handmaids in line.
The scene where they put on the collar, it was super tight, and then 5 min later June is able to basically take it off like a scarf?
This criticism is odd to me too. Do you think they switched out the costume piece between scenes? Plenty of materials stretch or have flexibility. Those collars aren’t muzzles. They’re there to hide the unsightly wires.
Watching the scene where they put it in, it looked to me like it was a muzzle actually. She couldn't put it on without assistance because emotionally and physically it was difficult to manage. It went on so tight it was squashing her skin and Lydia pulled the straps super tight. Elizabeth moss is literally acting her face off and at the end you see the pain in her eyes as she is silenced. They are a silencing method...and then 5 min later...nope off comes the collar.
By her being able to simply pull down the collar 5 min later the pain and emotional work of the previous scene is diminished. Is it a silencer, or not?
This criticism is odd to me too. Do you think they switched out the costume piece between scenes? Plenty of materials stretch or have flexibility. Those collars aren’t muzzles. They’re there to hide the unsightly wires.
Watching the scene where they put it in, it looked to me like it was a muzzle actually. She couldn't put it on without assistance because emotionally and physically it was difficult to manage. It went on so tight it was squashing her skin and Lydia pulled the straps super tight. Elizabeth moss is literally acting her face off and at the end you see the pain in her eyes as she is silenced. They are a silencing method...and then 5 min later...nope off comes the collar.
By her being able to simply pull down the collar 5 min later the pain and emotional work of the previous scene is diminished. Is it a silencer, or not?
She couldn't put it on herself because she didn't know how. The handmaid who lives in that house took hers off just fine. I don't think it's a silencer. It's to hide the fact that their mouths are wired shut, because who wants to look at that? And it looks like the straps in back are adjustable. I don't think Lydia tightened anything.
I think June gets quiet when it is put on because I'm sure it does feel shocking and it probably does prevent her from speaking to a certain degree. I think it's intended to be a mask though, not a muzzle.
Watching the scene where they put it in, it looked to me like it was a muzzle actually. She couldn't put it on without assistance because emotionally and physically it was difficult to manage. It went on so tight it was squashing her skin and Lydia pulled the straps super tight. Elizabeth moss is literally acting her face off and at the end you see the pain in her eyes as she is silenced. They are a silencing method...and then 5 min later...nope off comes the collar.
By her being able to simply pull down the collar 5 min later the pain and emotional work of the previous scene is diminished. Is it a silencer, or not?
She couldn't put it on herself because she didn't know how. The handmaid who lives in that house took hers off just fine. I don't think it's a silencer. It's to hide the fact that their mouths are wired shut, because who wants to look at that? And it looks like the straps in back are adjustable. I don't think Lydia tightened anything.
I think June gets quiet when it is put on because I'm sure it does feel shocking and it probably does prevent her from speaking to a certain degree. I think it's intended to be a mask though, not a muzzle.
Although, June's mouth is not wired shut, so what is the point of her wearing one at all then? I do think it is meant to keep them from speaking, or at the very least, symbolize that they should be silent. I guess I just assumed it was like most fabrics, though, where it doesn't stay tight for long and stretches out, so that's why she could pull it down.
I actually don't imagine that the majority of them have their mouths wired shut, though I don't know. Where did all those handmaids come from? For whatever reason I thought they had traveled to DC from elsewhere (and joined the handmaids living there) but maybe everyone at the Washington Monument WAS a DC -mouth-wired-shut handmaid?
She couldn't put it on herself because she didn't know how. The handmaid who lives in that house took hers off just fine. I don't think it's a silencer. It's to hide the fact that their mouths are wired shut, because who wants to look at that? And it looks like the straps in back are adjustable. I don't think Lydia tightened anything.
I think June gets quiet when it is put on because I'm sure it does feel shocking and it probably does prevent her from speaking to a certain degree. I think it's intended to be a mask though, not a muzzle.
Although, June's mouth is not wired shut, so what is the point of her wearing one at all then? I do think it is meant to keep them from speaking, or at the very least, symbolize that they should be silent. I guess I just assumed it was like most fabrics, though, where it doesn't stay tight for long and stretches out, so that's why she could pull it down.
I actually don't imagine that the majority of them have their mouths wired shut, though I don't know. Where did all those handmaids come from? For whatever reason I thought they had traveled to DC from elsewhere (and joined the handmaids living there) but maybe everyone at the Washington Monument WAS a DC -mouth-wired-shut handmaid?
I assumed she was wearing it to fit in and look like the others. They wouldn't want her looking different. I agree that it's a silencer of sorts, but I think it's primary purpose is to hide their mouths.
I made the assumption that all their mouths are wired shut because in the scene where they were filming the video, Aunt Lydia went over to fix one on one of the girls and that's when she saw that her mouth was wired shut. Plus June's roommate in that house has her mouth wired shut.
Anyway, whatever the case, it's just not a detail I would have picked out to say this season has flaws.
Post by foundmylazybum on Jun 27, 2019 14:28:27 GMT -5
If the point of the collar is to just cover up the rings, then why would June and Lydia even have a tearful, emotional moment and conversation about all women being silenced? Everything in Handmaids has symbolism, so acting like the collars are just covers doesnt make a lot of sense.
Also, i didnt think every woman in DC had those rings. They were another punishment method and Serena even brought up that she wished she had done it to June early on as a punishment. It's not the norm, but the collars are a good way to show dominance.
This is what I'm talking about! They put in all this effort, only to undermine it. 🤷♀️
Finally, Lydia was really interested in the collars all the way through the episode. She stared openly at them at the train station, pulled one down to see the rings later..then was opposed to them later. She has always. ALWAYS been into control of the women through pain. To be against it now was an odd storytelling turn.
Are they going to explain how these women eat with their mouths wired shut? Are they all on feeding tubes? That in of itself seems completely far fetched.
Are they going to explain how these women eat with their mouths wired shut? Are they all on feeding tubes? That in of itself seems completely far fetched.
The detail of the mask doesn't matter as much as the message, so I'm willing to ignore the eating. I told my husband it makes me nauseous to know how many men out there would be literally fine with it: just shut up, I'm going to rape you until you are pregnant to prove I'm a real man. Horrifying.
...In a structure like Gilead where the health of the handmaid's is paramount for pregnancy, you are going to wire their mouths shut? ...
The structure of Gilead is (mostly white) male power. They only care about handmaids' abilities to get pregnant to the extent that it serves that primary goal (helping keep their wives in line, proving their virility).
...In a structure like Gilead where the health of the handmaid's is paramount for pregnancy, you are going to wire their mouths shut? ...
The structure of Gilead is (mostly white) male power. They only care about handmaids' abilities to get pregnant to the extent that it serves that primary goal (helping keep their wives in line, proving their virility).
If this is true, and I'm not arguing against it completely, then why set up a scene in which Commander Winslow has 5 children AND a Handmaid. The children serve as a status symbol of that virility and thus it would be counterproductive and counterintuitive to do things that harm the Handmaid.
Besides that, it has been set up multiple times that there is a crisis of fertility world wide so while your statement is partially true, part of the reason some women are handmaids is because they had children and are proven fertile!
In previous seasons, in fact when June was pregnant, she received quality prenatal care, she received good food and nutrition and even Lydia went to the Waterfords and encouraged them to care for her.
Wiring a persons mouth shut has an impact on how they take in nutrition. It's not that complicated and it goes against some of the principles of Gilead. Was it shocking? Hell yeah it was, but my point in criticism is that the show is moving a little towards shocking for shock sake rather than for story sake, and this an example.
Post by Dumbledork on Jun 28, 2019 13:50:14 GMT -5
Aunt Lydia also threatened to keep pregnant June shackled to a bed in a basement until she gave birth.
Handmaid health is only important as it relates to fetus health.
I think any quality care and pampering delivered to handmaids is because they are expected to be overjoyed by the pregnancy, even though it’s a result of a rape. They’re expected to see that the ends now justify the means because bay-beez!
The structure of Gilead is (mostly white) male power. They only care about handmaids' abilities to get pregnant to the extent that it serves that primary goal (helping keep their wives in line, proving their virility).
If this is true, and I'm not arguing against it completely, then why set up a scene in which Commander Winslow has 5 children AND a Handmaid. The children serve as a status symbol of that virility and thus it would be counterproductive and counterintuitive to do things that harm the Handmaid.
Besides that, it has been set up multiple times that there is a crisis of fertility world wide so while your statement is partially true, part of the reason some women are handmaids is because they had children and are proven fertile!
In previous seasons, in fact when June was pregnant, she received quality prenatal care, she received good food and nutrition and even Lydia went to the Waterfords and encouraged them to care for her.
Wiring a persons mouth shut has an impact on how they take in nutrition. It's not that complicated and it goes against some of the principles of Gilead. Was it shocking? Hell yeah it was, but my point in criticism is that the show is moving a little towards shocking for shock sake rather than for story sake, and this an example.
But it was stated that the fertility crisis was due to environmental toxins, not poor nutrition. Hence the colonies. I think June was treated well when she was pregnant mostly because everyone in the house was so happy about it.
The structure of Gilead is (mostly white) male power. They only care about handmaids' abilities to get pregnant to the extent that it serves that primary goal (helping keep their wives in line, proving their virility).
Wiring a persons mouth shut has an impact on how they take in nutrition. It's not that complicated and it goes against some of the principles of Gilead. Was it shocking? Hell yeah it was, but my point in criticism is that the show is moving a little towards shocking for shock sake rather than for story sake, and this an example.
Those might be removable rings, not wires. Like a piercing ring. They can take them out so the handmaid can eat.
Wiring a persons mouth shut has an impact on how they take in nutrition. It's not that complicated and it goes against some of the principles of Gilead. Was it shocking? Hell yeah it was, but my point in criticism is that the show is moving a little towards shocking for shock sake rather than for story sake, and this an example.
Those might be removable rings, not wires. Like a piercing ring. They can take them out so the handmaid can eat.
YES! I think you're right. Serena's line was "I should have put rings in your mouth the moment you ..."
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
Wiring a persons mouth shut has an impact on how they take in nutrition. It's not that complicated and it goes against some of the principles of Gilead. Was it shocking? Hell yeah it was, but my point in criticism is that the show is moving a little towards shocking for shock sake rather than for story sake, and this an example.
Those might be removable rings, not wires. Like a piercing ring. They can take them out so the handmaid can eat.
Aunt Lydia actually makes the most sense to me. She is like every domestic partner abuser ever. She thinks she loves the Handmaids and when she punished them it’s because they made her do it. If they were good they wouldn’t get hurt. She doesn’t WANT to hurt them- she is teaching them.
I do think the outburst of rage with at the baptism party was more related to PTSD from being attacked by Emily than it was about her role as an Aunt. In that moment she snapped and it really makes me wonder what happened to her niece. @@@tw- I wonder if it was shaken baby syndrome or something like that.
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2019 10:34:09 GMT -5 by bugandbibs
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
There is going to be an Aunt Lydia flashback episode, not next episode, but episode 8: in.amny.com/2Y2fVk0
Aunt Lydia does a lot of things that wouldn't necessarily be good for a pregnancy, cattle prods for instance. I know they track the handmaid's cycles pretty hard, but they could definitely be pregnant before anyone knew and zapping someone in early pregnancy couldn't possibly be healthy.
If this is true, and I'm not arguing against it completely, then why set up a scene in which Commander Winslow has 5 children AND a Handmaid. The children serve as a status symbol of that virility and thus it would be counterproductive and counterintuitive to do things that harm the Handmaid.
Besides that, it has been set up multiple times that there is a crisis of fertility world wide so while your statement is partially true, part of the reason some women are handmaids is because they had children and are proven fertile!
In previous seasons, in fact when June was pregnant, she received quality prenatal care, she received good food and nutrition and even Lydia went to the Waterfords and encouraged them to care for her.
Wiring a persons mouth shut has an impact on how they take in nutrition. It's not that complicated and it goes against some of the principles of Gilead. Was it shocking? Hell yeah it was, but my point in criticism is that the show is moving a little towards shocking for shock sake rather than for story sake, and this an example.
But it was stated that the fertility crisis was due to environmental toxins, not poor nutrition. Hence the colonies. I think June was treated well when she was pregnant mostly because everyone in the house was so happy about it.
Didn't the house get extra ration coupons or something because of her pregnancy though? I swore there was a scene with the Martha talking about being sure to get something at the store because they were entitled to it now. And Janine got ice cream because she was breastfeeding.
They definitely have used food in the past as both a sign of the household's social standing, and as a carrot and stick for pregnant handmaids (drink this healthy smoothie, be rewarded with ice cream, eat the soup or be chained up and force fed).
But it was stated that the fertility crisis was due to environmental toxins, not poor nutrition. Hence the colonies. I think June was treated well when she was pregnant mostly because everyone in the house was so happy about it.
Didn't the house get extra ration coupons or something because of her pregnancy though? I swore there was a scene with the Martha talking about being sure to get something at the store because they were entitled to it now. And Janine got ice cream because she was breastfeeding.
They definitely have used food in the past as both a sign of the household's social standing, and as a carrot and stick for pregnant handmaids (drink this healthy smoothie, be rewarded with ice cream, eat the soup or be chained up and force fed).
Oh, yes, they definitely use food as reward and punishment to try to control the handmaids.
I get the questions about the mouth rings! It also seems crazy to me to want to prevent your fetal incubators from eating*! I'm just saying Gilead would still choose to do it if they thought the net benefit was higher for the commanders given the tradeoffs. Without one thought for the humanity of the handmaids.