Salary negotiation help (updated)

[mbcdefg]

I haven’t been job hunting in over 7 years so I need some help, please. My most recent company shut down suddenly a few weeks ago, so I’m currently unemployed.

I’ve had three separate, promising interviews so far, and I want to be prepared if any of them call with an offer. With my most recent job I was so excited to get an offer that I immediately accepted the salary without negotiating, so this time I’d like to try and get more.

Is there a standard amount to ask for if they offer me $X? Like, a specific percentage, or $5-10k more, for example? I need a job and need at least my most recent salary to make our household budget work, so I can’t really afford to turn something down as long as I make what I was already making ... but what’s your strategy for asking for more? I know to shoot higher than what I’m hoping to get so they’ll maybe meet me in the middle, but how much higher?

I won’t need a new employer’s health insurance because I’m under MH’s really great plan. Can that be used as a bargaining chip for a higher salary? Or maybe more vacation time?

One of the interviews was for a university staff job, and in the job description it mentions a pay step and a union. So how much negotiating can I do for that kind of job, or is everything set in stone and I can’t ask for more salary or vacation time?

Is it better to hear their offer, ask to please think it offer, and then call them back (if so, when? Within a couple hours, or the next day?) to try and negotiate? Or is it better for me to be prepared to immediately negotiate on the first call?

Finally, we were planning a semi-local family vacation for August. It can easily be canceled if need be and we won’t be out any money at all. I know I should ask about that if offered a position and the worst they can say is no, but do employers usually get frustrated about a new employee who wants to take off right away? The topic of why I’m looking for a job came up in each interview so they’re aware that my sudden unemployment is in no way my fault.

Thanks for any advice!

[smock]

It's totally normal to thank them for the offer and take some time to decide what you want to ask for, salary wise. So don't feel like you have to be ready to negotiate on the spot! If they match your previous salary, it can't hurt to ask for 10% more. If they don't have much flexibility on salary, definitely negotiate for more vacation.

And I wouldn't worry about the days off in August. Just let them know you have prior plans. Unless it's like a two week trip, I doubt they'll even bat an eye.

And congrats on so many interviews so quickly! It sounds like you're making the most of a stressful situation.

[oswin]

A few strategies you could try. When they tell you the salary number, you can always respond with something like "it sounds like we're in the right ballpark - is there any wiggle room on that number?" I always try to avoid giving numbers first, because you don't know what their negotiation ability is. For example if they say salary is $X, you don't know if they can only give you $X+2k or $X+20k. So if you ask for $X+5k, and they could have gone higher, they'll be like "sure!" and then you're left wondering how much you left on the table.

The last time I negotiated an offer, I did end up having to give them a number - they wanted to know "what number would really make you happy" and I think they met my number and also upped my bonus bracket.

You can also say things like "well I was really hoping for a number closer to $X+10k, but depending on just how good the benefits/vacation/etc are I could settle for a bit less"

Re: timing - it kind of depends, sometimes the recruiter is the messenger for the offer but they have no power. So then you say you'd like to arrange a time to call the hiring manager to talk about the offer.

As far as taking time off right away, it varies, but it probably can't hurt to mention it when you get to the point of accepting an offer. You'll be discussing start date and you can mention that you already had this planned. It may depend on how they do PTO/vacation time - some companies you have to accrue from nothing and can't borrow against it, others give you it all up front for the year.

Good luck!

[sarahsays]

I find I have better luck negotiating if I can use the market rate for the position versus just trying to move their number up arbitrarily.

At my university union position salaries and benefits are non-negotiable. We advertise the position with the salary for that reason.

I always ask for time to think the offer over and then negotiate, if possible, when I call back (usually the next day.)

Whenever I've had prior plans - I've just told them and it has never been a problem.

[sexycarrot]

The Ask A Manager website is a great resource for all of these questions--she provides scripting and everything. The website will have everything but she also had a podcast for a while.

www.askamanager.org/

Good luck!

[raangoli]

Ditto oswin and sexycarrot. That’s what I’ve prepped in case of salary negotiation. I’ve never had to negotiate salary but I have had to negotiate vacation time, work from home allowance, and a prescheduled trip.

The trip was the easiest. I just said I have plans made to travel on X days and would like to ensure I can make it (in my case it was non-negotiable, I needed to go). They were fine with it.

The vacation time was fine too since it was a “I have X days, you offer Y, can we make it Z?” The WFH was less but my old job was probably unusual in what they let me do, but I still have 2 days at home which is good enough for me.

Good luck! I have my fingers crossed for you!

[Velar Fricative]

I've never seen a union/pay step job that could have its salary negotiated. That's one of the benefits of such a job - there's no guesswork involved (which is why I'm surprised they didn't even post the minimum or the range in the posting?) and it's fair, so it doesn't matter who you are or how well you can negotiate salary. Vacation time is pretty rigid too so that likely can't be negotiated either. WFH and other flexible scheduling opportunities could very well be negotiable though. My employer offers a small "bonus" of sorts for people who opt out of their healthcare plan provided you meet certain conditions (like not otherwise participating in another city employee healthplan through your partner or something), so that's a possibility.

Have you checked glassdoor.com to see if there's information about any of these employers? Before you negotiate, if there's any way to get some data regarding salaries, that would give you an idea of how much wiggle room there could be. Keep in mind that glassdoor doesn't (usually?) take into account number of years, prior experience, etc. so even if a salary for a similar job at the employer is higher than you might expect, it could be due to other factors.

But yeah, ditto the advice regarding what to say during a negotiation. I'd be ready to negotiate upon the offer, which is why it's important to do as much research as you can right now. Then it shouldn't be a problem to tell them you'd like another day (or the weekend if they call on a Friday) to consider everything. This is also why any questions regarding benefits, etc. should be ready to be asked during that first phone call as well.

One other thing - you mentioned you'll be under your DH's healthplan. However, do take note to ask about other benefits and perks that could be offered. Obviously it may depend on size of company/organization and type of role you're pursuing, but you may find that other benefits such as retirement matching and other things could make a difference when you consider the overall offer (provided that they meet whatever salary you were making before at minimum, unless you figure that with certain benefits that you otherwise used to pay for OOP, a small decrease could be worthwhile). Maybe they provide commuter benefits, FSA accounts, an EAP, emergency childcare services, or any number of other non-health-related benefits.

Finally, I'd also mention the planned vacation in August. Some employers may require that you take unpaid leave for such instances if they require that you accrue a certain number of days before you take vacation, so just keep that in mind and ask about that. I've never seen such a request be a big deal as long as it's mentioned during the negotiation/offer phase.

Good luck, I'm so happy you've had a few interviews already and hope at least one of them yields a great offer!

[mbcdefg]

Jul 5, 2019 7:26:15 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I've never seen a union/pay step job that could have its salary negotiated. That's one of the benefits of such a job - there's no guesswork involved (which is why I'm surprised they didn't even post the minimum or the range in the posting?) and it's fair, so it doesn't matter who you are or how well you can negotiate salary. Vacation time is pretty rigid too so that likely can't be negotiated either. WFH and other flexible scheduling opportunities could very well be negotiable though. My employer offers a small "bonus" of sorts for people who opt out of their healthcare plan provided you meet certain conditions (like not otherwise participating in another city employee healthplan through your partner or something), so that's a possibility.

Have you checked glassdoor.com to see if there's information about any of these employers? Before you negotiate, if there's any way to get some data regarding salaries, that would give you an idea of how much wiggle room there could be. Keep in mind that glassdoor doesn't (usually?) take into account number of years, prior experience, etc. so even if a salary for a similar job at the employer is higher than you might expect, it could be due to other factors.

But yeah, ditto the advice regarding what to say during a negotiation. I'd be ready to negotiate upon the offer, which is why it's important to do as much research as you can right now. Then it shouldn't be a problem to tell them you'd like another day (or the weekend if they call on a Friday) to consider everything. This is also why any questions regarding benefits, etc. should be ready to be asked during that first phone call as well.

One other thing - you mentioned you'll be under your DH's healthplan. However, do take note to ask about other benefits and perks that could be offered. Obviously it may depend on size of company/organization and type of role you're pursuing, but you may find that other benefits such as retirement matching and other things could make a difference when you consider the overall offer (provided that they meet whatever salary you were making before at minimum, unless you figure that with certain benefits that you otherwise used to pay for OOP, a small decrease could be worthwhile). Maybe they provide commuter benefits, FSA accounts, an EAP, emergency childcare services, or any number of other non-health-related benefits.

Finally, I'd also mention the planned vacation in August. Some employers may require that you take unpaid leave for such instances if they require that you accrue a certain number of days before you take vacation, so just keep that in mind and ask about that. I've never seen such a request be a big deal as long as it's mentioned during the negotiation/offer phase.

Good luck, I'm so happy you've had a few interviews already and hope at least one of them yields a great offer!

The university job has good GlassDoor ratings and it’s a close commute for me so it’s the one I really want. They advertised the step number and I googled and found the school’s contract so the info is public ... it gives a range for that step’s salary over four years (?) so I know I’d be making st the very least a tiny bit more than my last job.

Another job is an hour away but they said the pay is higher than my last job and hey could offer me 2-3 WFH days.

The third is 100% WFH and a former colleague works there and says she likes it. But they haven’t interviewed me for a particular job ... their company says they’re thinking about acquiring parts of my old company (publishing and perhaps some people.

[Velar Fricative]

mbcdefg - All sound reasonable so hopefully at least one gives you an offer. Even the job an hour away wouldn't be terrible to me because 2-3 WFH days would balance that commute out, IMO.

[Patsy Baloney]

mbcdefg depending on the union/state/university/moon in the 7th house and Jupiter aligned with Mars regulations, you may have some wiggle room with salary negotiation with the union/step position. I began working at a university in a union position, and there was actually up to a 10% increase an applicant can negotiate to before it turns into a thanks-but-no-thanks or a “petition the state for higher pay” situation. If you’re offered the position, ask if there is room for negotiation - they may say yes!

[Roc A Bee]

In my experience with union jobs/steps, the salary range isn’t negotiable but your placement on the range is. So if you have years of experience you can be asked to be placed higher than step 1. Vacation time, work from home is generally outlined in the contract and usually non-negotiable. Good luck!

[thebulldog]

the August time off is the least of your worries - that can be taken unpaid if needed.

[wildrice]

I don't think it hurts to ask about salary with the university staff job. I have not worked as part of a union, but I have worked at 3 universities now. One I did not try to negotiate, one I tried and failed, and the last (my current) I was able to get them to come up $2500. But none of them posted a specific salary in the posting, but rather a range. If there is a hard number posted I wouldn't try to negotiate, but if you were given a range I think it's ok to ask for more. They may say no, but you never know unless you ask. I would find out more about what it means to be in the union and how that will affect you though. I'd also take a close look at retirement options. Universities tend to have great retirement, but (for example) at my current university a non-exempt employee is required to put money into a pension program, and you aren't vested for 10 years. I honestly would have had a hard time accepting a position with that (thankfully I'm exempt and was able to choose a 403b option where I am immediately vested).

Vacation and other benefits at universities tend to be across the board same for everyone in certain classifications, so I doubt you can negotiate those.

I wouldn't worry about the vacation thing, it happens all the time. I would mention it when you get the offer and don't offer to cancel unless they give you a lot of pushback (they likely won't!).

Good luck!!!

[mbcdefg]

Thanks again for the help - I got an offer today from one of the companies (not the university job - the WFH job) and I told them I’d call back tomorrow to finalize things.

We discussed a salary range of $X to $X+$5k. They offered me $X. So I’m going to come back tomorrow asking if they can get any closer to the top of the range. They also offered two weeks’ vacation and I’m going to see if they can do three weeks. I also plan to mention that I won’t need their health insurance if that helps them alter my offer at all.

And we may cancel the August trip anyway ... they want me to start around that same week, plus MH was saying the other day he’s not quite feeling that destination and maybe we should look try something that isn’t as long a car ride so we’re going to plan something else most likely.

If you have any other tips for negotiating or specific phrasing I should use, I’d appreciate it!

[raangoli]

Congratulations!! That’s awesome!!

I’m not so great at the salary negotiation but I have negotiated vacation days and got what I wanted. I told them at this point in my career, I had earned X days and they only offer Y, and so I asked if they can match X. They were fine with it thankfully.

I’m super happy for you!

[leeba25]

Congratulations! That was super quick - nice work. (I was laid off at the end of November, and just started my new job this week, so I’m super impressed.) My new job is also wfh, and this is my first fully remote job, so maybe we can share “don’t go crazy from never being around live people” tips.

If you discussed a range, and they came in at the bottom, it’s absolutely fair for you to negotiate more within the top of the range. If you haven’t already done so, look up askamanager’s tips on how to negotiate salary - what you can say in that convo, etc, to make it a stronger negotiation — she’s got some amazing tips over there.

Good luck, and congrats again!

[mbcdefg]

Jul 20, 2019 9:18:00 GMT -5 leeba25 said:

Congratulations! That was super quick - nice work. (I was laid off at the end of November, and just started my new job this week, so I’m super impressed.) My new job is also wfh, and this is my first fully remote job, so maybe we can share “don’t go crazy from never being around live people” tips.

If you discussed a range, and they came in at the bottom, it’s absolutely fair for you to negotiate more within the top of the range. If you haven’t already done so, look up askamanager’s tips on how to negotiate salary - what you can say in that convo, etc, to make it a stronger negotiation — she’s got some amazing tips over there.

Good luck, and congrats again!

Thanks! Good luck to you as well.

I accepted $x+2500 plus an additional vacation week.

[divanerd]

That's great!