This post is going to turn in to everyone getting upper in the poll but stating they feel middle class. Everyone feels middle class!
I remember in a sociology class back in college we had to write a narrative about our family and how we grew up. We had to discuss what class we thought we were. The professor said that mostly everyone described them and their families as being middle class but based on the descriptions of how people grew up there were a lot of upper class students in the group.
I’ll say it! Upper and I feel it! Lol
Same. And I didn't need a poll to tell me that, lol.
I squeak in at middle class in my area, lower nationally. I was happy to see I am doing average for my neighborhood, I was feeling like a failure. This poll made me feel better actually.
I'm middle, which is predictable for a single 30 something year old professional in the nonprofit hospital world in NYC. I was upper when I was married though. Damnit.
See, the thing is that everyone thinks upper class is living like the Monopoly man because so few people truly understand what it's like to be poor (and I'm not saying I'm one of them) and the availability of credit (at insane, usurious interest rates) means the difference is masked if you look at stuff. If you look at anything other than "do you have a tv and a smartphone", the differences are really fucking acute.
H just got a 30k raise last month. We were in the middle class but that raise puts us in the upper class. We have only had that bump in pay reflected a few paychecks so we aren't totally feeling it yet. But I'm feeling so grateful and lucky.
We are in the upper class according to the poll. Doesn't feel like it at my house lol. But my husband's been very successful and lucky this year at work so things have changed a lot this year.
My only thing with the mortgage is to scale HCOL. I had a conversation at work that in my area you really have to make at least $80 to $100K to not live paycheck to paycheck, which for those of us in my industry means two incomes. I was saying a DINK couple we know won't be able to afford one of the spouses to stop working while going for her PhD. at that rate. If rent or mortgage are $900+ a month then someone making $80K really isn't upper class, they're just making enough to pay for housing AND food.
I completely understand that mine said upper, and I can afford the mortgage I have (which again isn't that big according to my scale) because of the income we have pre-taxes and expenses. I get that I have to make as much as I do to cover my expenses.
Still nope. It's not about expenses, because it's still comparing your income to those around you. Everyone likes to play the VHCOL game, but guess what? You (the generic "you", not picking on you personally) are still upper income because there are still a majority of people in NYC/SF/LA/Seattle who make a shit ton less than you and they still have to survive with the same COL.
We are upper currently, but have a baby on the way in Dec so I plugged in 3 household members and that knocks us down to middle. If I decide to SAH we’ll still be middle, hmm...
Either way, I grew up at the poverty line, so I’m comfortable.
Post by pandora89 on Sept 13, 2019 12:18:35 GMT -5
Lol this thread.
We live in a VHCOL city. We have a $3k mortgage payment and $1900 a month in daycare. I’m not going to subtract that from our income. We are CHOOSING to have a mortgage that big and send our son to the daycare. We could leave the city and commute and have a mortgage 50% less and save several hundred dollars in daycare cost a month. We could choose to send our son to a cheaper daycare here in the city and save $700 a month. We choose not to. We choose to spend this much on those things. That is a privilege we have because of our income. Most people do not have this privilege.
What is the upper class supposed to feel like? Most of the posts on this board are things that the middle/lower class can’t even relate to. Funding large home renovations on savings,, vacations where the budget is “just” three thousand dollars, signing kids up for multiple high dollar camps and activities, planning to fully fund college, etc.
Not being able to afford to stay home while your spouse works and you get a PhD, isn’t indicative of struggle of any kind. It certainly doesn’t mean someone is not upper class.
Post by aprilsails on Sept 13, 2019 12:26:50 GMT -5
I’m in Canada so the survey doesn’t work for me but we are in the top 10% nationally and in the top 20% within our region, which is a fairly well to do place (Ottawa). We are also 35, which means we have many years of high earning potential ahead of us and we will be just fine.
Absolutely Upper. I grew up lower/middle class and I know the difference.
Yep, nope, never have I ever been annoyed when H gets a bonus. I say SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! I’m not in a field where bonuses are a thing, not even a holiday ham.
My H just started at a job that has bonuses. Neither of us had ever had that before. I AM PUMPED. Get that Plaintiffs work money, H!!
I am middle, but I am just $3K away from being upper. Which is crazy to me. But I guess I am also kind of proud because I did this all on my own after getting divorced. So :toot toot: my horn.
Post by litskispeciality on Sept 13, 2019 12:43:18 GMT -5
My point about the PhD. was that the one spouse would struggle a f*ck of a lot more losing the other spouse income in a HCOL area, did the original spouse think about if they can afford for her to not work? That wasn't clear, and not really relevant to this post, although it can go back to the wage gaps because one spouse won't make enough to support two people and would take them from upper to middle class or whatever. I 100% understand staying home is a privilage in this day and age, esp if you can stay home to go to school, although this person would only go for said PhD. if it's fully funded as to not add more debt...but then that's a privilage thing again because you have to have a kicka$$ resume to get picked to be a fully funded student. I digress before we get too off track. People who can stay home complain that they struggle, but you still have enough in that class with your spouses income to not choose between food or rent. My husband's family grew up that way and we understand we have it way better.
That calculator says Upper Middle. Which I guess is true. I just look around at our friends and knowing (approx) what they make compared to us... I don't feel it. In our area, DH and I are on the lower end. There are a lot of upper class people too in our area, which makes it feel more skewed too!
But then I also realize we have a nice house in a nice (but average) neighborhood with good schools. I can't complain. We may not be able to take luxurious trips, but we can take fun, simple trips that still have managed to spark DSs travel bug.
The next point someone will make is that wages have not kept pace with inflation and that everything is more expensive now (houses, college tuition, food, etc.), and that it takes a two income household to produce the same standard of living that a one income household did in the 1950s. So therefore people feel middle class.
It’s true, wages have not kept pace with inflation and 90+% Americans have generally been dealt a shit sandwich. The gap between the wealthiest 1% and everyone else continues to grow, and it’s a huge huge problem. But that doesn’t mean you are not upper class. You are still upper class *relative* to the people below you, regardless of how it feels.
Bolded for emphasis.
8 years ago before I met H I was making less than half what I do now as a single Mom. Trust me. I've experienced the bottom as well as the position that I'm now in. This poll was eye opening for me especially when I look at all of the things that I never had before but take advantage of now - SFH, house cleaners, luxury cars and goods when 8 years ago I would turn off power strips when I left the house just to keep my electric bill down.
My point about the PhD. was that the one spouse would struggle a f*ck of a lot more losing the other spouse income in a HCOL area, did the original spouse think about if they can afford for her to not work? That wasn't clear, and not really relevant to this post, although it can go back to the wage gaps because one spouse won't make enough to support two people and would take them from upper to middle class or whatever. I 100% understand staying home is a privilage in this day and age, esp if you can stay home to go to school, although this person would only go for said PhD. if it's fully funded as to not add more debt...but then that's a privilage thing again because you have to have a kicka$$ resume to get picked to be a fully funded student. I digress before we get too off track. People who can stay home complain that they struggle, but you still have enough in that class with your spouses income to not choose between food or rent. My husband's family grew up that way and we understand we have it way better.
Is this your situation?
If you mean the going to school thing no, it's truely someone else that I know. It's really not my business, they just complain about it all the time, about how they can't achieve a dream because no one will fund it and they have to work instead. I feel for the spouse who would have to carry all the bills, the person seems selfish and thinks the world should give them everything at no cost. This person complains how they're paycheck to paycheck, but a lot of that is debt that probably could hvae been avoided. That does get me when people complain they can't meet the wage gaps, but don't try to do more if they have the means to do so, or just take the risk of adding more debt without thinking of the consequences later. Yes you'll probalby make a higher salary with another degree, but you'll have to pay the loan back. I understand that taking on that loan debt doesn't subtrack and move you down in class.
Have I joked with my DH that I *should* be able to stay home because we don't have kids so what do we need my income for? Absolutely, but it's not a reality if we want a life better than paycheck to paycheck.
Post by lilypad1126 on Sept 13, 2019 13:29:54 GMT -5
The poll tells me that I'm middle class. If I choose any of the other metro areas in my state, I'm upper class. I live in an extremely poor state that is only going to see more economic decline. The only reason my salary puts me in the middle class here is that my metro area is made up of doctors (2 large trauma hospitals across the street from my neighborhood), highly paid big pharma people (we have one big pharma company located here) and the very much over paid college administrators who work for the state's land grant institution.
There is no way I am anything other than upper class in this state. The level of poverty that I see on a daily basis is humbling and awful. Sure, I chose to spend my money on my fancy education which allows me to afford a 2 bedroom condo and a new car (along with allowing me to pay back my enormous student loans), but I fully recognize that I very privileged. And while my salary wouldn't go as far in NYC/Seattle/SF/other VHCOLA, I'm still fortunate and in no way should I be considered much less than middle class.
I grew up with parents who lived paycheck to paycheck. And not in the artificial way some people claim to these days. In the "let's take our few random recyclables to the recycle center and hope they give us a few dollars so we can buy gas/hoard it until the next pay day to pay our electric bill/put it towards our next trip to the grocery store." We were lucky that parents had jobs that they could work opposite shifts from each other so they didn't also have to stress about daycare bills. Which maybe makes it easy for me to recognize that while I'm officially middle class in my county, I'm still incredibly privileged.
This post is going to turn in to everyone getting upper in the poll but stating they feel middle class. Everyone feels middle class!
I remember in a sociology class back in college we had to write a narrative about our family and how we grew up. We had to discuss what class we thought we were. The professor said that mostly everyone described them and their families as being middle class but based on the descriptions of how people grew up there were a lot of upper class students in the group.
This is what I expected for myself, but surprisingly, when I did the calculator I still got solidly middle. So when I say "but I feeeel middle class" I can actually have some credibility. ;-) (at least according to this calculator)
That being said, I feel very fortunate and for the most part financially comfortable.
I do not feel like I'm in the upper class. It could be because I still somewhat support my DS even though he lives on his own (he's in school and cannot have a job). Once he's off my payroll (2 yrs yet) I should be feeling like I have more money to my name.
Even changing my household to 3 people to include my DS it still says upper.
ETA: I feel fortunate for what I have and am not complaining. We live in an average house and have older used cars. We don't live like we're upper class, but we are comfortable and I feel fortunate for that. I was just surprised because I always just figured middle class.
I don't understand not using your full income - we all have expenses. Your income class is based on INCOME, not debt.
I'm solidly middle class, which makes me feel better, honestly, because if I was upper class I'd feel like I did something TERRIBLY wrong in the financial planning department LOL. Reading this, I don't feel so bad because half the people in my state are making more than me.
I am confused on how having a higher income would mean you did something TERRIBLY wrong in the financial planning department?
She's saying if her current income were considered upper, then she must be terrible with her money because she definitely feels middle class.
I got middle but playing with the numbers it’s because my area doesn’t have an upper middle, it goes straight from middle to upper. I would describe us as upper middle so that makes sense to me. As DINKs we were decidedly in the upper bracket, but growing our family and reducing our income (I’m a SAHM now) puts us quite a bit down from what that calls upper.
Post by nospaekae on Sept 13, 2019 14:02:33 GMT -5
We're upper class. I grew up lower/middle-lower class and even though we budget and I live frugally (H not so much) I feel very rich and very thankful.
H grew up upper class and the way we see money and our approaches to it are completely different. It is our main point of arguments.
I don't understand not using your full income - we all have expenses. Your income class is based on INCOME, not debt.
I'm solidly middle class, which makes me feel better, honestly, because if I was upper class I'd feel like I did something TERRIBLY wrong in the financial planning department LOL. Reading this, I don't feel so bad because half the people in my state are making more than me.
I am confused on how having a higher income would mean you did something TERRIBLY wrong in the financial planning department?
I was thinking that if I was considered upper class, then I am way behind on my savings, and I am being careless with my money. Basically, if I make more money than most anyone else, then I shouldn't really be feeling the strain of my expenses and should be able to put more toward savings (retirement, mutual funds, 529s, etc). Knowing that I'm actually middle class makes me feel a bit better about our current situation because I DON'T make more money than most people, but am right in the middle and am probably doing better than I thought we were.
Not sure if I'm explaining that well, but in my head it makes sense and makes me a bit less worried about money (I grew up lower class and being financially sound is a HUGE cause of anxiety for me)
So, we're actually between two different Metro areas that are identified in this poll, but I chose the Philly area and it puts us in the top tier along with 23% of others in the vicinity. If I put in Reading, which is actually closer by 20 miles, it puts us in the top 19%. *I put this info because I know that there are quite a few other Philly area ladies on this board.
Also upper with 23% but considering that includes Camden, I think the numbers are skewed. Our HHI in Camden would make us ballers, but in Philadelphia we're firmly middle. We'd be lower middle on the Main Line tbh.