He was a bumbling idiot in the debates last time around and that didn’t matter. He just has to be a general asshole to please his base and he’s quite practiced at that. They DGAF if what he says makes any sense or not.
Exactly. It doesn’t matter whether or not he “wins” the debate based on actual facts and logic. I remember from the GOP Primary someone saying that trying to prep for a debate with him was like preparing for a NASCAR race where one driver is going to be drunk. Or maybe it was blind. I can’t remember. But something like that.
He was a bumbling idiot in the debates last time around and that didn’t matter. He just has to be a general asshole to please his base and he’s quite practiced at that. They DGAF if what he says makes any sense or not.
Exactly. It doesn’t matter whether or not he “wins” the debate based on actual facts and logic. I remember from the GOP Primary someone saying that trying to prep for a debate with him was like preparing for a NASCAR race where one driver is going to be drunk. Or maybe it was blind. I can’t remember. But something like that.
He was a bumbling idiot in the debates last time around and that didn’t matter. He just has to be a general asshole to please his base and he’s quite practiced at that. They DGAF if what he says makes any sense or not.
Exactly. It doesn’t matter whether or not he “wins” the debate based on actual facts and logic. I remember from the GOP Primary someone saying that trying to prep for a debate with him was like preparing for a NASCAR race where one driver is going to be drunk. Or maybe it was blind. I can’t remember. But something like that.
I honestly don't like Warren because I just don't see her increasing minority turnout any more than Clinton did. The democratic base is voting against Trump no matter what. But how do we get minority voters who didn't show up in 2016 to show up in 2020? Will they really turn out for another older white women who is even less in touch with the minority communities ?
I'm sure she has tons of policies and ideas that are great. But so did someone else. As much as this is a cynical view, we can't govern if we can't win. I don't see Warren winning against as much as I would love to be proven wrong.
I don't understand the comments that Trump would beat Warren in a debate. He's an idiot and I am pretty sure even *I* could beat him in a debate. He'll be a bully to whomever is up there, but do we want to pick our next President based on whether or not Trump can bully them in a conversation where he doesn't know what he's even talking about?
I have been Warren and Harris for a long time. I read both of their books recently and connected better with Warren. I can't even quite put my finger on it but she got me excited. So I'm with Warren as my #1 but will be happy with Harris or a number of the others if they are selected.
I did not watch the debate and oddly haven't seen as much debate coverage in the news as the last couple of times (or maybe I've just been paying attention less - idk) so the debate didn't impact my choice. I do hope I can watch the next one.
I don't understand the comments that Trump would beat Warren in a debate. He's an idiot and I am pretty sure even *I* could beat him in a debate. He'll be a bully to whomever is up there, but do we want to pick our next President based on whether or not Trump can bully them in a conversation where he doesn't know what he's even talking about?
I.
Trump isn’t going to debate anyone so who will do best against him doesn’t matter to me. But even if there was a debate, it’s not going to be a truthful and thoughtful discussion of issues. The moderators ask loaded questions that assume the truth of GOP talking points, and Trump will lie and insult. Warren’s 14 paragraph Medium post answer about her Aunt Bea will be streamrolled by a barrage of insults and lies. She’s not going to be able to hit him back with zingers. She’s not mean enough, and she’s thoughtful to a fault.
Think about Harris going for Biden. Think about how Harris spoke directly to Trump in the last debate. That’s not Warren.
For the same reasons, I do worry about Warren in a head to head general with Trump. She doesn’t do biting quips, and she let Trump bait her into that stupid DNA test.
I like Warren and these are probably surmountable problems. But I think they are real.
I don't understand the comments that Trump would beat Warren in a debate. He's an idiot and I am pretty sure even *I* could beat him in a debate. He'll be a bully to whomever is up there, but do we want to pick our next President based on whether or not Trump can bully them in a conversation where he doesn't know what he's even talking about?
I have been Warren and Harris for a long time. I read both of their books recently and connected better with Warren. I can't even quite put my finger on it but she got me excited. So I'm with Warren as my #1 but will be happy with Harris or a number of the others if they are selected.
I did not watch the debate and oddly haven't seen as much debate coverage in the news as the last couple of times (or maybe I've just been paying attention less - idk) so the debate didn't impact my choice. I do hope I can watch the next one.
It’s not really that he could beat her in a debate. It’s that he can damage her in a debate and I haven’t really seen strong evidence that she could punch back.
Warren is a wonk. She should be president. I think she would be excellent as POTUS. I’m not convinced a policy wonk will out fox a tyrant. 🤷♀️ It didn’t work for HRC. She also had shit ton of brilliant plans. Where are those plans now? I know so many people who are all in for Warren. It gives me hope. All those people are white. It gives me pause.
I honestly think Dems should stop focusing on who has the best plans. They are all combinations of probably not realistic to fine to great. We should be focusing on who can carry the load of trouncing Trump. Most of them seem to beat him in head to head challenges NOW. But this shouldn’t matter much. HRC was beating him at this point too. Who can keep beating him in Sept, Oct., and Nov 2020? When the scary shady shit starts to fly? Like a suspicious FBI letter in October? Or a wiki dump in Sept?
Debates didn’t help us last time. I think Warren is going to have to wrestle with persuading people that M4A will work and you won’t have private insurance any longer. 45 can easily run on she wants your private insurance gone not even having to talk about Obamacare at all. Polls show that people don’t want to give up their private insurance. I think her healthcare policy will be a problem for the general. If they dig Into the polls further it may be a reason why Biden continues to stay in the lead. Harris changed her plan based on those polls and now has a 10 year phase out of private insurance.
I am still torn between Warren and Harris. I like Warren and I think she's got the most genuine, clear story of any of the candidates about who she is, why she's running, and what she wants to do in office. However, like heyjude said, the overwhelming whiteness of Warren's fan base is really concerning and doesn't seem to be getting better. That's going to be a big problem. I also think 45 himself will be the least of her problems if she's the nominee because all of corporate America will have a collective freak out and start pouring money into R races at a whole new level. I'm not sure how she'll stand up against that.
I think Harris is awesome and wanted her to blow the rest of the field away, but so far that hasn't happened in the way I expected. She reminds me a bit of Hillary in the way that she is great at connecting with people one-on-one but really doesn't like to talk about herself at all. I totally get that and don't blame her one bit, but in a campaign it comes across as guarded and untrustworthy. We know what the right wing trolls will do with that since we saw it in 2016.
Both of them would make amazing presidents and I would work my ass off for either of them but I can't say either of them is a sure thing for a 2020 win by any stretch and it is all pretty terrifying to me right now.
I'm shocked people think Warren would be too nice in a debate! Have you seen her go after someone in Senate hearings? She is so tough. I think she'd be amazing against Trump.
With that said, I don't think Trump will agree to a debate.
Post by turnipthebeet on Sept 16, 2019 16:08:11 GMT -5
I get that currently, Warren's base is very white. But doesn't Biden poll the best among POC? The last time I saw, which was maybe a month ago, he did.
I saw an argument that POC just want whomever can beat Trump, that they don't have the luxury at this point or historically of picking a candidate that they genuinely prefer, and that at this time that seems to be Biden.
I'm shocked people think Warren would be too nice in a debate! Have you seen her go after someone in Senate hearings? She is so tough.
I’m here. She got in my radar from how hard she went after people in senate hearings. She’s the person “nevertheless, she persisted” came from because she wouldn’t stop when being told to. She doesn’t shy away from confrontation.
Good points. But she hasn’t debated Trump. He seemed to “win” whatever war they were waging over her background.
I’m here. She got in my radar from how hard she went after people in senate hearings. She’s the person “nevertheless, she persisted” came from because she wouldn’t stop when being told to. She doesn’t shy away from confrontation.
Good points. But she hasn’t debated Trump. He seemed to “win” whatever war they were waging over her background.
Exactly. In a normal debate, policy issues, maybe even moral ones, she'd be amazing. But he'll attack personally and call her Pocahontas and make a bunch of sexist jabs and won't discuss policy.
How do you debate someone who doesn't care about the truth, and whose supporters also don't seem to care about the truth?
He'll just come up with some ridiculous, untrue talking points (Medicare for All will kill 5 million people a year!), repeat them ad nauseum, and cry "fake news" when anyone tries to point out that they are untrue.
Post by picksthemusic on Sept 16, 2019 16:58:11 GMT -5
Chiming in that Warren and Harris are tied for my top spot right now. I love how fiery Kamala has been, and how steady Elizabeth is as well. I think they are very complimentary to each other, and I think they'd do well in a double ticket (either on the top for me, I don't care).
Good points. But she hasn’t debated Trump. He seemed to “win” whatever war they were waging over her background.
Exactly. In a normal debate, policy issues, maybe even moral ones, she'd be amazing. But he'll attack personally and call her Pocahontas and make a bunch of sexist jabs and won't discuss policy.
I'm not convinced she has the chops for that.
I don't know. I think it's a valid critique, but Warren has been the best so far at pointing out how her policies will help working Americans. I think she'll be the best at connecting how government, and her administration in particular, can make people's day-to-day lives better. So all she really needs to do is bring that in. Trump calls her Pocahontas and makes a bunch of sexist remarks, she talks about the jobs lost due to Trump's trade war, the money farmers are losing due to the tariffs and the acceleration of climate change, which Trump is doing nothing about, the fact that health insurance premiums continue to increase, the fact that he's made himself and his friend's richer, but you still can't afford to buy a house or send your kids to college or retire... I trust her more than probably any candidate to be able to explain and connect those things to Trump's failings.
Exactly. In a normal debate, policy issues, maybe even moral ones, she'd be amazing. But he'll attack personally and call her Pocahontas and make a bunch of sexist jabs and won't discuss policy.
I'm not convinced she has the chops for that.
I don't know. I think it's a valid critique, but Warren has been the best so far at pointing out how her policies will help working Americans. I think she'll be the best at connecting how government, and her administration in particular, can make people's day-to-day lives better. So all she really needs to do is bring that in. Trump calls her Pocahontas and makes a bunch of sexist remarks, she talks about the jobs lost due to Trump's trade war, the money farmers are losing due to the tariffs and the acceleration of climate change, which Trump is doing nothing about, the fact that health insurance premiums continue to increase, the fact that he's made himself and his friend's richer, but you still can't afford to buy a house or send your kids to college or retire... I trust her more than probably any candidate to be able to explain and connect those things to Trump's failings.
I don't know. I think it's a valid critique, but Warren has been the best so far at pointing out how her policies will help working Americans. I think she'll be the best at connecting how government, and her administration in particular, can make people's day-to-day lives better. So all she really needs to do is bring that in. Trump calls her Pocahontas and makes a bunch of sexist remarks, she talks about the jobs lost due to Trump's trade war, the money farmers are losing due to the tariffs and the acceleration of climate change, which Trump is doing nothing about, the fact that health insurance premiums continue to increase, the fact that he's made himself and his friend's richer, but you still can't afford to buy a house or send your kids to college or retire... I trust her more than probably any candidate to be able to explain and connect those things to Trump's failings.
This could also be said about Clinton, though.
No. I think Clinton did have good policies, of course, but she was never able to connect them to people the way Warren does.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Sept 17, 2019 15:36:24 GMT -5
Warren is still my top choice based on which candidate is the most qualified for the job. She has clearly thought so many more things through than almost every other candidate. She has a solid and consistent voting record that I don’t expect to bite her in the ass as much as someone like Biden who has been all over the place.
That said, what I’m missing from almost everyone in the primaries is passion. Humanity. Humility. The courage to have an unpopular opinion (aside from Biden, again, who seems to be running on the unpopular belief that he should do this at all). In that sense, the only candidate I am connecting with emotionally (this is worded strangely and I can’t quite brain a better way to say this) is Beto. Guys, he’s fucking nailing it for me on gun control. While every candidate has a left leaning position for stronger background checks, banning assault rifles, or one of the other talking points, Beto is demonstrating that same quality that endeared Obama to me in 2008. He’s genuinely fucking angry about the weapons that keep winding up in the hands of the wrong people, the world our kids are growing up in, and it evokes the anger and pain in Obama’s speech after Sandy Hook.
I’m not even saying Beto is my top pick or anything, but if I could make a plea to every other primary contender it would be to give me some of this on some issue (but someone please tell Bernie I’m not asking for any more shouting). I’m so goddamn tired of politicians who can’t seem to admit that they made mistakes in the past and have evolved their beliefs, that they aren’t a mess of jaded senators and representatives and mayors and millionaires. I need them to emote and care. I think that’s why nobody has been standing out yet on a national level as someone people are really connecting to. Maybe I’m looking for charisma from people who aren’t as naturally charismatic, but I don’t think you’re going to get the passion and groundswell from supporters of all different backgrounds that we need without it.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."