We got a new VP a couple years ago who is totally anti wfh, so they've been rolling that back here. That's really ticked people off.
We actually just lost someone who developed a new system we use because his wife got a job in another state, one where we do have offices, and he asked to be allowed to move and wfh with occasional visits to one of the offices there and management refused. So he left and now we're screwed. I don't get people who will hold so tight to a "everyone must be in the office" mindset when it's not true and it totally hurts the company.
This basically happened with us. Employee knew everything about a specific system. He discussed with management that he wanted to move farther away and asked to be able to work remote. They told him no so he found a remote position and quit. And the irony of it all is that the person they ended up replacing him with lives in a different state. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Post by amandakisser on Oct 17, 2019 9:48:01 GMT -5
I currently WFH 3 days a week, and I go into the office the other 2. My university as a whole doesn't support WFH...but my direct boss WFH full time in another state. When I applied, I asked about working remotely a couple days a week and my boss was fine with it because 1) my commute is 2 hours each way and 2) they REALLY NEEDED ME. I'm in meetings much of the day, so I don't feel like I'm losing out on the social aspect, plus I wake up early to go to the gym before work and keep myself busy in the evenings. It's really done wonders for me, and it helps my stress because I have extra time to focus on myself and other areas of interest. I'm working hard to make a great impression because I don't want to lose this great thing I've got going (like, my dog is laying on my lap right now and I am sitting in my kitchen next to the window, a luxury my office does not afford me).
There’s some irony in what I wrote 6 months ago. I’m back doing the project work that is 100% WFH (regardless of a pandemic), but this time I have been too overwhelmed by the chaos of my house to be depressed yet. It’s all anxiety/stress. I don’t miss getting up and getting myself out the door but I do miss having a place to go that doesn’t include my family members. I still need a balance between in-person communication and virtual.
I also wrote about how my H’s friends do remote WFH and yesterday one of them was laid off. The things that I had worried about were the things that put him on the chopping block. He wasn’t as connected to the office as others were.
I love the flexibility part. Lately I have been waking up at my normal early time (right now.) I put 1-2 hours in when the house is silent. As the rest of the household wakes up, I go downstairs to complete a workout. From there I leisurely get ready for the day. So each day I am able to get out ahead of my day, which is really essential for my work.
Since this conversation, my company actually got out of having a physical office location/headquarters altogether. It happened toward the end of last year because they were looking to cut costs and it made zero sense to be paying $12K+ a month so that three people could have desks and we could have a small video space/studio that was rarely used (99% of our video is either shot on-location or recorded via Zoom anyway). So that was fortuitous as something that 1) means we continue to operate day-to-day without much disruption and 2) we've already shed the overhead and lease associated with a physical location, so we're in a better position to weather this.
I wonder what the long-term implications for the commercial real estate market are, as more companies realize that no, they don't actually need any or as much physical space for employees. At my company, I think the only person who was really hanging on to having an office was our CEO/owner. He revived the company after it was shut down and it had re-started as 100% WFH, so I think for him, being at a point where he able to afford an office space kind of signified that we had "made it." But we really didn't need it and it actually made us less cost-efficient. And IMO, investing in sending us all to the same event once or twice a year, where we always set aside time to have a company dinner and/or go out for drinks with each other, gives us the in-person contact that is really nice to supplement the daily slack and the weekly video calls, plus it's cheaper.
Post by Velar Fricative on Apr 9, 2020 7:47:25 GMT -5
So, my zombie thread update.
DH is a teacher. There is no way this is sustainable so schools will go back to normal. Perhaps some families will decide to stick with this kind of model in the future so it remains to be seen if enrollment changes will occur outside of other natural occurrences such as birth rate changes.
I can still WFH. But, as I mentioned previously, our lowest-paid staff tend to be people who cannot WFH long-term. We all are now, but these customer-facing staff are limited in what they can do from home right now because so much of what they do is tied to what’s in our buildings. However, planning for reopening is so tricky because we obviously don’t want to exacerbate inequities by telling our lower-paid staff to go out there and work with the public (while administrators like me get to WFH) without adequate protection and a serious shift in how they even provide service (they have to provide 1-on-1 computer assistance - how does that look with social distancing, for example). So my guess is that while WFH will be allowed as it usually is every now and then, we will not go fully WFH as an organization because of how unfair it looks.
Obviously my WFH situation right now as dramatically changed but I really miss going to my office. I have a short commute and work alone though. If I had a long commute, I’d probably feel differently.
I wouldn't be surprised if our university offers us the ability to work from home and do virtual counselling more often to save money on offices/be able to get more therapists working. I'd be up for it though I do think some people hate it.
PDQ, but one of my closest friends was consistently denied the ability to work from home when needed, or even on a regular schedule, due to a medical condition. ADA requires a company accommodates someone if it's doesn't place an undue burden on the company (potentially not the exact language, but close). But oops, yeah, that would have been too burdensome, so she had to come in and sit in a chair in an office each day.
And yet now companies are finding they can miraculously accommodate working from home. Surprise!
Anyway, I think this could be a game changer for people with disabilities and who need other accommodations.
Prior to this, I would try to WFH one day every other week or so. I needed to have some quiet, heads down time. My office can be so distracting. And I love helping people, but I had a lot of new people visiting my desk asking questions since I have been there a while. Generally new people or hourly people were expected to be in the office. I am sure that will be the case when we get back to the office. I am sure I will do my one day here and there when possible. When I am alone in the house, I can really focus and get a lot done. Now...well...not so much.
I find video calls sort of distracting though. Someone is always echoing because they forgot to mute, or the connection is bad, etc. I miss meeting with people in person actually.
In regards to office space, I am really curious to see how this affects co-working spaces, if at all.
I definitely do see the value in it, but selfishly I never want to get to a point where most people WFH most of the time because it would not be a good fit for me.
Quoting part of what I said in October. Wah!!!
Honestly this working from home hasn't been horrible. I have always said I never wanted a WFH job but I don't think I had really taken into account that my only experiences working from home were not in environments where that was the norm. When you're the only person working from home, it's easy to feel left out. When everyone is working from home, it's a different vibe. I still don't know that I'd want a 100% WFH job long term, but I would be totally fine with going into an office only a couple of times a week.
Then again, I'm a trainer and while I'm adjusting to training online, I do like in-person better. What I'm finding that is interesting is that we're getting much better attendance online, though. I don't know if this is because people don't have enough to do and want to fill the time, or if it's an indication that people actually prefer to attend training when it's online. I may have to see about offering both options in the future.
I have always loved WFH 1-3 days a week. I still hope my job goes back to at least some in-person (it should), but I think at the university level the are going to be a lot of transitions to even more hybrid learning models with a combination of in-person and online.
I wouldn't be surprised if our university offers us the ability to work from home and do virtual counselling more often to save money on offices/be able to get more therapists working. I'd be up for it though I do think some people hate it.
A friend who is a law professor has been told to prepare for virtual classes next year if needed. I can't imagine doing an entire year of law school online (if that's not what you signed up for in the first place), but it seems likely.
Post by turnipthebeet on Apr 9, 2020 8:35:49 GMT -5
I would like to see rural America take this opportunity to invest in high speed internet. There is an overcrowding in cities and exodus from rural areas, and this seems like a good opportunity to highlight low COL and other perks of being in a more rural setting, understanding that it’s not for everyone.
Selfishly, living in a flyover state, I just want more Democrat’s to move here so we can vote out the shysters in the state government and our prick governor.
If you had asked me in October if I could work from home, my answer would have been no fucking way. I teach middle school.
yet here we are, and it's going...fine. A little @@@ content:
It's not nearly the same as being in school but my kids are learning, for the most part. It's actually been really good for some of them - kids who struggle socially, it often impacts their academic performance and those kids are thriving. Kids who are independent workers who hate group work are loving this. My kids who struggle academically are really struggling. I've had to independently zoom with the same 7 kids after every "class" session to help them break down the assignment - something that would take me 30 seconds in class takes 5-10 minutes a kid at home. I miss school. I miss my normal teaching style. I hope this ends before September.
That said, I think this has shown a lot of jobs that were deemed not-WFH friendly actually can be. Telemedicine is something I hope sticks around. My husband (lawyer) can actually WFH just fine most of the time, so I hope his firm adds some leniency when they return.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Post by Velar Fricative on Apr 9, 2020 9:00:29 GMT -5
Since I also talked about the impacts to mass transit funding when this was originally posted, I am *really* worried about that now here. Along with more people WFH, we're supposed to have congestion pricing in Manhattan too but I think more people will just say "fuck it, I'll pay" and still drive into Manhattan after this. That will be nice for our coffers but not so much for the environment and traffic. Mass transit has been seen as an equalizer in this city historically but now it may become just like everything else where the people will means will just utilize other options. And then I fear it'll be like most other areas of the country where money isn't invested into it because "only" poorer people use it. Ugh.
I would like to see rural America take this opportunity to invest in high speed internet. There is an overcrowding in cities and exodus from rural areas, and this seems like a good opportunity to highlight low COL and other perks of being in a more rural setting, understanding that it’s not for everyone.
Selfishly, living in a flyover state, I just want more Democrat’s to move here so we can vote out the shysters in the state government and our prick governor.
This is somewhat @ related because it’s about school. Our district is geographically large and serves a suburban, urban and rural population. I learned last week that one of the biggest barriers we have to managing e-learning is not just funding related for 1-1 but internet access isn’t even just limited to cost related factors. One area of our district is so rural there isn’t even a home internet option.
I think internet should be a public utility and be made available everywhere.
Right before this all happened my H got permission to WFH full time. H's commute was 1-1.5 hours each way on a good day. We were going to move to my hometown, sell our TH and buy a SFH (something we can't afford here in the Seattle area). In our TH H has no private place to work (just an alcove next to our bedroom) so it's fine for days here & there when he had appts etc. Every day is somewhat of a challenge especially now when he's having multiple zoom meetings every day.
Post by Velar Fricative on Apr 9, 2020 9:20:17 GMT -5
~25% of American adults still don't have broadband access at home. Chew on that. They may have internet access through smartphones, but you can't be as productive on a smartphone.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Apr 9, 2020 9:25:11 GMT -5
I didn't reply originally, but I will now.
I've worked 100% WFH and hated it. Same with H. For both of us, WFH 1-3 days a week is perfect. You get time for social interaction and time for focus.
I am basically getting that now. I work in essential manufacturing so our plant is running. I go in 1 day a week because we need a manager on site so 4 of us are rotating. But it for sure stinks for my staff because the nature of being a front line manufacturing employee is that you have to be there.
General thoughts on pros and cons:
-Maybe we are just tech nerds but we normally have two docking stations at home with 32" monitors, and when this started H brought home two more monitors. Y'all need to get more monitors! Our house isn't giant, we normally have one in the guest room/office and one in the living room (doubles as living room TV as we cast to it). We added one station to the master bedroom.
-i can focus more on technical work at home, but remote meetings suck. There are intermittent tech issues, you can't have side conversations, you can't look at stuff in person (we frequently are physically looking at parts or drawings or whatever and it just doesn't work on Teams).
-the social chit chat that happens at work is a time suck, but it's also the glue that holds things together. When I need help two months from now, those social connections pace the way. Additionally there is huge value in bouncing ideas off each other. It isn't the same over chat.
My ideal outcome of all of this is I ask my boss to WFH one day a week.
Since I also talked about the impacts to mass transit funding when this was originally posted, I am *really* worried about that now here. Along with more people WFH, we're supposed to have congestion pricing in Manhattan too but I think more people will just say "fuck it, I'll pay" and still drive into Manhattan after this. That will be nice for our coffers but not so much for the environment and traffic. Mass transit has been seen as an equalizer in this city historically but now it may become just like everything else where the people will means will just utilize other options. And then I fear it'll be like most other areas of the country where money isn't invested into it because "only" poorer people use it. Ugh.
Maybe I’m naive, but I think people will still use mass transit in the city. At least within manhattan. The subway is so much faster than driving and will be even more so if there are more cars than normal. Thankfully there is a finite amount of parking options and as long as those aren’t expanded, I don’t think that many more people will be driving than used to. Maybe more people taking taxis and ubers, but those are shared spaces as well.
I didn't respond in October but if I had I would have said that my work was not WFH friendly. If you HAD to do it for the day it was a maybe but rare and case by case basis. At the beginning of January they started discussing alternative work situations (4 10 hour days, work from home options, etc). They were going to maybe try people working from home 1 day a week as a trial sometime soon and then this happened. We are all allowed to WFH, our office is still technically open but there are minimal people going in. I think this forced my company to try WFH ready or not and I think in general its been successful. I am loving it (and will like it more when other aspects of life are back to normal) and I hope it will be a continued option in the future. I would love to WFH 2-3 days a week for some work/life balance. I am mostly sitting at my desk all day while I'm here but I enjoy being able to throw a load of laundry on a quick break and load the dishwasher at lunch or whatever. I'm more of an introvert anyways so I don't mind being alone.
And yet now companies are finding they can miraculously accommodate working from home. Surprise!
Anyway, I think this could be a game changer for people with disabilities and who need other accommodations.
I have many social media friends who are disability advocates, and all of them are cautiously optimistic at how this will change the landscape for their future working situations. Your (story) is all too common: firms protest about making the smallest accommodation as a way to keep out disabled workers, but this new reality is the naked truth. If you want to make it work that badly, you'll find a way! I really, really, hope this brings about changes.
ps...I did not realize this was a zombie thread when I started reading. I was really tilting my head at all the responses!
Since I also talked about the impacts to mass transit funding when this was originally posted, I am *really* worried about that now here. Along with more people WFH, we're supposed to have congestion pricing in Manhattan too but I think more people will just say "fuck it, I'll pay" and still drive into Manhattan after this. That will be nice for our coffers but not so much for the environment and traffic. Mass transit has been seen as an equalizer in this city historically but now it may become just like everything else where the people will means will just utilize other options. And then I fear it'll be like most other areas of the country where money isn't invested into it because "only" poorer people use it. Ugh.
There's only so many parking spots in Manhattan on the streets and in the garages combined. Commuting into Manhattan daily is an unpleasant idea from where we are in Central NJ. People like my husband will still take NJ Transit. I used to drive in an out all the time from 2010 - 2016. I preferred it over train or bus. With the introduction of bike lanes in Manhattan, even I don't want to drive into Manhattan anymore. The rare times I do go, I take the train.
Post by UMaineTeach on Apr 10, 2020 11:35:09 GMT -5
I wonder what happens when the people working high paying jobs in a large metropolitan area decide to work remotely in rural Montana. The pay presumably stays the same, but COL goes down. What happens to economies in both places?
We would love to move further north and make the same money.
A recent Harvard Business Review study of US Patent and Trade Office workers found their output increased by 4.4 percent after a transition to remote work, with no significant increase in having to rewrite patents due to appeals.
H’s whole company is now working from home with the exception of shipping and receiving going in 2x/wk. He said the company wide utilization is usually around 53-55% and this last period was over 60%.
Post by picksthemusic on Apr 10, 2020 11:58:15 GMT -5
DH works for the county, and has been WFH almost exclusively (unless I'm home and he can go to an empty office to get bigger projects done on two screens), he loves it. He doesn't have to put on work clothes, he can eat from our fridge, and he can sleep in. But he gets the same amount of work done. I think this is going to change the face of how the county does work, because it's been pretty successful.
I wonder what happens when the people working high paying jobs in a large metropolitan area decide to work remotely in rural Montana. The pay presumably stays the same, but COL goes down. What happens to economies in both places?
We would love to move further north and make the same money.
H’s whole company is now working from home with the exception of shipping and receiving going in 2x/wk. He said the company wide utilization is usually around 53-55% and this last period was over 60%.
We adjust people's salaries accordingly. You can't start in SF, get SF wages and then move to Montana without a pay cut.
We don’t adjust wages, but not all positions are able to be fully WFH. I’m jealous of my coworkers making HCOL money (I mean, nonprofit money but still) in LCOL areas.
I won’t lie that deep in my heart I hope that this ends with MH being remote 75% of the time and we can swing moving out of TN and him only being in TN like one week a month, if that. It probably won’t happen but living here through this has really highlighted for me what a terrible fit it is for us. And it’s been 11y, 3 of our 4 parents are over 70 now and I’m done. I want to go home.
I don't remember what the original article/ discussion was about so maybe this was discussed there...but my concerns are that companies like mine will use it as an excuse to further cut costs on real estate and start forcing people to work from home who don't want to. Also that they will decide that remote work is going so well they don't need us anymore and will send a lot of our jobs overseas to people who they can pay 80% less. It seems like my company has toyed with these ideas before but will now have more ammunition to prove it could work (already they've been reducing the sizes of workspaces every few years and talking about maybe getting rid of assigned desks, and moving most of the lower technical work and IT and HR service centers to less expensive countries)