Does anyone have one of these? I've seen the Mitsubishi ones and then I saw these: www.eheat.com/products/.
My furnace is from 1993 and it's been limping along. In 2008 I was told that I needed to redo the supply and return air systems in my house and at that point it was over $3k which I just did not have so it didn't happen. My furnace is in my crawl/body storage space and it is creepy to say the least. I hate going down there to change the furnace filter.
Googling has led me to two possible diagnoses: pressure switch or inducer. I don't think the pressure switch will be too much but the inducer could be several hundred dollars.
Putting a new furnace into the current set-up might be not the best idea? But paying for the fixing of the supply/return air systems will probably be more now so that's why I'm thinking about a new system all together.
My furnace is a gas furnace. I don't have/want air conditioning. I have a swamp cooler that works great and costs almost nothing to run.
Post by aprilsails on Oct 25, 2019 21:56:26 GMT -5
winecat the link didn’t work. I mostly only see ductless systems for AC but they can do heating as well (they are not as efficient as other heating systems). What size is your home? My company generally installs them in condos and up to two bedroom apartments. They will usually indicate a square footage capacity which you would want to adhere to.
Now as I recall these systems aren’t super cheap. Even with your duct replacements you may be better off cost wise with a normal furnace. Of course I can see how it might be worth the money to not have to go into the crawl space.
aprilsails- Technically, or what I pay taxes on, is 950 square feet but it sure doesn't seem like it. I haven't measured in forever. The furnace guy today said that he didn't think it was either. At any rate, one of the rooms at the back of my house doesn't seem to get any heat so my furnace now is heating less. My house is basically a long rectangle. It's 17-20 feet wide, depending on the room, and however long to make it 900ish sq ft.
Does eheat.com work for you? The brand is called Envi and they're "Wall Mounted Panel Heaters" according to the website. My current furnace is Goodman Furnace Model GMP075-3 (GMP0753) but I keep forgetting to check the BTUs.
Ok- so those Envi units are nothing more than square electric baseboards, and they aren’t phenomenally useful ones at that. You would need one for every 150 sq ft of space, as well as something in every room to be properly comfortable. They also use up an outlet and have internal thermostats which are not the best. I would only recommend these to someone who has a cold room in their house, as an alternative to using a space heater in the room.
If you were planning on getting rid of your furnace and switching to electric baseboard heating I would want to do it properly. In the US market I’m most familiar with the Dimplex line of linear convectors (fancy self-induction electric baseboards). Their Connex line is wirelessly controlled via smart thermostats. That limits the amount of wiring required, but enables you to run a house with electric baseboards like a normal house where you can turn the temperature up or down easily.
You would need an electrician to install the wiring and this would damage your walls a bit (some patching and painting) but it would be fairly easy. Cons to going with electric baseboards are: - increased electricity bills (not good if your electricity rates are high) - less air movement in the house (the convector type helps with this a bit as compared to normal baseboards, but it’s still going to be a bit stale in the house) - no humidity control - no A/C
Now a Mitsubishi ductless split (like a Mr. Slim) is more expensive and will do cooling, has a built in fan, and does heat as well. They are the units we usually put into condos like a mentioned. If your house is long and skinny I would recommend that you would need more than one- potentially one for the main living areas and another in the hallway leading to bedrooms. These work best in open floor plans and are not as great for individual bedrooms or small enclosed rooms. You could also blend and do a Mr. Slim for the living spaces if they are open, and baseboard heaters for bedrooms.
In all honesty though a standard ducted furnace will be the most comfortable and efficient method of heating the home. It’s hard to beat.
We have a mitsubishi unit in our basement. It works well for heating and cooling but the basement is pretty well insulated. It is heating/cooling about 1000 sq ft of space.
aprilsails- Thank you so much! My walls are lathe and plaster so wiring is a pain in the rear.
I think one of the problems is that the furnace is too large for the venting? According to the furnace company that recommended the redo of the return/supply air said that "the return air addition will probably be the most beneficial in getting the system to not operate on the 'high limit' setting." The tech that came and did the repair 10 days before I got the second estimate said that the duct work is too small. I'm not sure why the heat isn't getting to my back room, but if I don't worry about it and get one of those "Envi" heaters or another space heater for that room, then I could go with a smaller furnace that would fit the ducting and return/supply air changes? (I like the Envi since it doesn't sit on the floor.)
I won't hold you accountable for any decision I make. I'm trying to figure out if my reasoning is, well, reasonable. The guy from 2008 also said that "The flue vent system is connected, but it is poorly supported and assembled in the crawlspace. It is also single wall pipe in the crawlspace. It has the potential of venting poorly, and more so as outdoor temperature drops. This is a safety issue. Repairing this will not make the system heat any better. It will only provide for good flue gas venting." So I'm guessing that fixing the flue venting is a priority? Again, I realize that this is the internet and you can't see my system. But it sounds like some of the flue venting in the crawlspace might need to be redone but if I get a smaller furnace that doesn't overwhelm the return/supply air then I might not have to redo that? I'm on a limited budget so that's why I'm trying to find the best solution for what I can afford. Thanks again!!
Post by aprilsails on Oct 26, 2019 20:40:44 GMT -5
Hi I’m back! The wall mounted heaters do seem like a great solution for a cold room. Not expensive and an easy install. Totally recommend for a cold bedroom.
As far as the ducts go I think a smaller furnace may run better based on what you’re describing, but it’s hard to tell. You may want a two stage furnace with lower fan speeds since the ductwork is narrow. That would result in less pressure on the entire system.
As far as the venting goes you may be out of luck there. When we replaced our furnace at the last house we had to replace the exhaust piping and venting to bring it up to current code, even if it would have been suitable for the new furnace under previous codes. There is generally no option to leave that kind of stuff as is. Especially if you have a gas or fuel fired furnace.
aprilsails- Thank you! I'll ask about both a smaller furnace and a two stage furnace. Nobody has mentioned a 2 stage furnace. Maybe they weren't a thing when I last had someone really look at it? The venting issue might make me cry but I understand what you're saying. I feel like I was just getting to the point of not feeling buried. Being a grownup blows sometimes. ::: sobs ::: Thanks again! I really appreciate your help.
Ok- so those Envi units are nothing more than square electric baseboards, and they aren’t phenomenally useful ones at that. You would need one for every 150 sq ft of space, as well as something in every room to be properly comfortable. They also use up an outlet and have internal thermostats which are not the best. I would only recommend these to someone who has a cold room in their house, as an alternative to using a space heater in the room.
This, absolutely this. We had one and it barely did anything. Don't bother.
Post by thatgirl2478 on Oct 27, 2019 13:22:00 GMT -5
aprilsails, any thoughts about how to best heat a basement? Doesn't really need a/c as it's pretty cold all year long. We have a 4 ton unit that's adequately heating the 1st and 2nd floor (around 2600 sq ft), but the 1300sq ft in the basement is pretty much always cold. Should we just install a second furnace for the basement?
aprilsails, any thoughts about how to best heat a basement? Doesn't really need a/c as it's pretty cold all year long. We have a 4 ton unit that's adequately heating the 1st and 2nd floor (around 2600 sq ft), but the 1300sq ft in the basement is pretty much always cold. Should we just install a second furnace for the basement?
Basements are tough. Often the ductwork to the basement is poorly laid out. you shouldn’t need a furnace just for the basement. You might want someone to come and see how the ductwork is done, or if there are issues with your insulation. An energy inspection might be a good idea.
aprilsails , any thoughts about how to best heat a basement? Doesn't really need a/c as it's pretty cold all year long. We have a 4 ton unit that's adequately heating the 1st and 2nd floor (around 2600 sq ft), but the 1300sq ft in the basement is pretty much always cold. Should we just install a second furnace for the basement?
Basements are tough. Often the ductwork to the basement is poorly laid out. you shouldn’t need a furnace just for the basement. You might want someone to come and see how the ductwork is done, or if there are issues with your insulation. An energy inspection might be a good idea.
We had an energy inspection done last year. They added 10" of insulation to the attic, sealed the cracks between the 2nd floor and the attic, installed a new bathroom fan and Nest thermostat, and put in the spray foam insulation around the sill plate and rim joist spaces. It's still cold. :/
We have 3 vents in the basement. All in the ceiling off the main runs to the rest of the house. Not much comes out in the basement. They did cut more air vent returns in the wall between the furnace room and the main basement (when we put in the new HVAC system). Basically the only 'solution' we've been offered is to rebalance the whole system, but that's not even guaranteed to work. :/ At least with one of those 'california' wall heaters I'd be able to get heat in the space. (I call them 'california heaters' because on all those flip or flop shows they show them on the walls... they probably have a real official name that I'm not aware of)
Post by aprilsails on Oct 27, 2019 21:29:58 GMT -5
thatgirl2478 sounds like you’ve done all the right things already. That super frustrating. Supplemental heating where you need it is probably the best bang for your buck now unfortunately. I agree that redoing the ductwork is not guaranteed to help.
Ok- so those Envi units are nothing more than square electric baseboards, and they aren’t phenomenally useful ones at that. You would need one for every 150 sq ft of space, as well as something in every room to be properly comfortable. They also use up an outlet and have internal thermostats which are not the best. I would only recommend these to someone who has a cold room in their house, as an alternative to using a space heater in the room.
This, absolutely this. We had one and it barely did anything. Don't bother.
Bummer. I have a Vornado space heater that's pretty small but so far has done a good job. (I got it for my food truck but brought it home just in case....) But I liked the idea of something wall mounted better than a floor unit.
This, absolutely this. We had one and it barely did anything. Don't bother.
Bummer. I have a Vornado space heater that's pretty small but so far has done a good job. (I got it for my food truck but brought it home just in case....) But I liked the idea of something wall mounted better than a floor unit.
I feel like the vornados work ok because they move the heat around. the envi relies on convection currents, which... don't always work in all spaces.
Bummer. I have a Vornado space heater that's pretty small but so far has done a good job. (I got it for my food truck but brought it home just in case....) But I liked the idea of something wall mounted better than a floor unit.
I feel like the vornados work ok because they move the heat around. the envi relies on convection currents, which... don't always work in all spaces.
aprilsails- I finally braved my crawl space again to check out the BTUs for my furnace. The input BTU is 70k and the output is 63k, so it sounds like way bigger than my house might need. Based on this calculator (which isn't a complete load calculator,) it says I need a 42-45k furnace if I'm in Zone 4 or 47-57k if I'm in Zone 5. It's hard to tell from their map which zone I'm in.