More mortgage help

[k3am]

Our current lender is basically the worst. We are in the process of refinancing. At the beginning of November, they sent a payoff letter indicating the new lender needed to pay off our current loan balance and fees and the upcoming 12/10 tax payment. They refuse to pay the taxes out of the escrow account, which has more than 2x the tax amount due.

We don’t want to roll the 12/10 tax payment into the new loan.

Current lender said that we should make the tax payment on our own, and they would revise the payoff letter to reflect just the current balance and fees. We made the payment – it shows as paid on tax assessor website, I have email confirmation and the ACH cleared our account, etc.

It’s been two weeks now and they’re refusing to update the payoff letter to reflect the tax amount as paid. They keep saying they’ll update, sending new payoff letters, but they all continue to include the tax payment.

BofA is now suggesting that we bring the amount of the tax payment due to the closing (even though it’s already paid) and that we’ll somehow get back all the money.

So we’ve already paid the taxes.
Then the current lender would pay the taxes as part of the payoff… but they’ve already been paid.
Then we’re also bringing the amount of the taxes due to new lender?

It’s basically a mess. What do I even do here?

Sorry if this doesn’t make sense. Nothing about this makes sense to me.

[dr.girlfriend]

Sorry, I don't have any ideas, just sympathy, that sounds like a PITA. At the worst wouldn't you end up paying your 2020 taxes early?

[scout8]

I don't know that I have any advice for you. That all seems crazy. I don't understand why your mortgage payoff letter would even include your taxes. In my area, that isn't anything that would be included on the payoff.

I guess I would try a couple of things. First, continue to call the old lender and keep pushing. Second, see what you can do with the second lender. They want your business so they should be helping you with this issue. I don't understand why they can't accept that the taxes have been paid if that is what is showing on the tax assessor's site.

At any rate, if you do decide to go ahead and bring the money to the closing, you will eventually get your money back. I'm not sure how long that will take though. It could be a few months before it all gets sorted out.

[k3am]

I'm not sure what the assessor would do if they received a check for tax payment 1 when payment 1 is already paid.

If they applied it against tax payment 2, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever. If they tried to refund it to the current lender, that would be awful.

I also already paid $11k out of pocket (tax payment 1) that I wasn't expecting to pay, and having to pay another $11k to BofA to refi is just a lot out of pocket, especially when we're in the middle of a renovation.

[tres3]

FWIW when we refinanced a few weeks later we got some huge checks back. If you can front the money you should get refunds from your original bank post closing

[k3am]

tres3, part of my concern is that I have 0 faith in the current lender. No one there seems to know what they're doing. Our escrow account has been so mismanaged it's not even funny. I'm happy to refi to get a better rate, but honestly the biggest reason we started exploring it was to get away from them and the escrow account.

[waverly]

I used to have clients who did not escrow at all. You don’t have to escrow unless the mortgage wouldn’t close without it and since you already closed on your current mortgage and are leaving them it shouldn’t be an issue.

Not sure if this is good advice, and they sound like they suck anyway, but I would demand a check in full for my escrow. I don’t have the money to pay my taxes 3 times over. I would keep calling and bring a pain in their side and escalating it to managers and higher and higher until I get what I want (whatever strategy you decide). If that doesn’t work I would go to social media and if that doesn’t work I would go to the news. Hopefully option A works for you. But they sound awful and at the end of the day I would be full on rage and escalating blood pressure.

[k3am]

waverly we escrowed initially for our convenience. When they messed it up, so began the saga of trying to get the escrow removed... and nope.

They’ll begin the process of refunding our escrow 30 days after they receive the payoff amount. (But reading online complaints, their turn around appears to be 6-8 weeks minimum.)

We have never managed to escalate to a manager. They will only “send an email to a manager so the manager can call us back” and never received a call back. They claim they don’t have a complaints department.

We’ve filed a complaint with BBB, whatever the federal people are, and Yelp. They don’t really seem to care about their reputation since they don’t originate loans.

[5thofjuly]

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Do you mind telling us the name of the first lender?

[k3am]

5thofjuly, Shellpoint. I can't even remember where we were to start with, within a month it sold to United Wholesale Mortgage, now it's at Shellpoint, owned by New Rez LLC.

Our experience with them has been really awful along the way. Every other mortgage company we've had has been uneventful. We make payments, they take payments, rinse and repeat.

[5thofjuly]

Thanks- we just got sold to a what is rated everywhere as a 1-star mortgage servicing company (CENLAR) so I anticipate a similar fight in the future. I hope the rest of the process is uneventful for you. I agree with the suggestion to have the second company fight this for you since they want your business.

[icedcoffee]

Nov 19, 2019 7:26:19 GMT -5 5thofjuly said:

Thanks- we just got sold to a what is rated everywhere as a 1-star mortgage servicing company (CENLAR) so I anticipate a similar fight in the future. I hope the rest of the process is uneventful for you. I agree with the suggestion to have the second company fight this for you since they want your business.

Before I refinanced I had CENLAR for like 4 years.  They were fine.  I had no issues with them while they serviced our mortgage or while going through our refinancing process.  I hope you have the same experience.  I think the problem with ratings with banks is people don't really review them unless they have issues which seems to happen everywhere.  We're currently with Wells Fargo with no issues either.

Anyway OP--when we changed our insurance company we had a similar issue and I just paid things off directly.  It took a couple months, but I eventually got checks back and all is good.

[waverly]

k3am , I am out of ideas, except calling a million times, maybe not getting off the phone until they fax over the correct letter. I'll wait, until you can fax that corrected letter over right now. I don't suppose they have a physical office you can visit, do they?

The other option are spend all the monies at closing, or maybe hire a lawyer. A lawyer could write them a letter. Not sure what the letter would say, but they can certainly draft something. Company sounds so bad that they might just ignore it out of incompetence, but maybe it will get somewhere.

It looks like they have an error resolution address.  You could try writing a strongly worded letter and mailing it.  Also offices in Greenville and Houston if you know anyone there that can shake them down on your behalf.  Talk to your congressman? Try contacting their sister/ parent company NewRez?

[k3am]

DH is a much more patient man than I am. He spent about 4 hours on the phone with them between yesterday and today (a large portion of it on hold), and we got the correct payoff statement.

So hooray! But I swear this process has contributed to the amount of gray hair I keep finding.

[dutchgirl678]

We are in the refi process now and our mortgage was sold to Shellpoint. We were having some issues recently as well with some discrepancy in our escrow account, but I can't find the source of the discrepancy. I will have to find out what is going on with them. Hopefully, we can be rid of them soon as well!

[k3am]

dutchgirl678 good luck with it. If you call customer service, the people you talk to are not the people who calculate the escrow. And you're not allowed to talk to the escrow people, so it's a series of hard paper mailings. And if you have a question about what they mail you, that's another call to customer support, who forwards your information to the escrow people, and another 3-5 business days before you get another hard paper mailing that doesn't actually reference your question at all. I'm not bitter at all.

I hate to be doom and gloom, but as long as you're working with them, make sure you document the date/time of your call, the agent you spoke with, and what you spoke to them about. They will all give you conflicting information.

[waverly]

Nov 19, 2019 11:05:59 GMT -5 k3am said:

DH is a much more patient man than I am. He spent about 4 hours on the phone with them between yesterday and today (a large portion of it on hold), and we got the correct payoff statement.

So hooray! But I swear this process has contributed to the amount of gray hair I keep finding.

Yeah that was what I was saying even if it takes all day 11K + is worth it.  But OMG the poor guy.  I've done that a few times with crappy HMO insurance we had to buy off the market in between DH's jobs. It was so awful that I ended up moving appointments when the new insurance started because I could not deal. 

ETA- they sound like the student loan processors that give everyone bad information on student loan forgiveness. 

[k3am]

waverly, I honestly don't understand how someone who is not very financially stable could manage a loan with them. We are fortunate to be in a position where I was able to make our supplemental tax payments when they refused to use the escrow that they were accruing but refusing to use for payments. And that this time, we were able to make the upcoming tax payment while they refuse to use the escrow they have on hand for it. And that we've had jobs that are flexible enough that we could be on hold for 2+ hours with them while we do other things. A lot of people aren't.

So I can't imagine having everything budgeted out properly but not having extra cash lying around to make up for their mistakes/policies they can't change/whatever. Or having a job where being on hold for hours in an attempt to resolve a problem is impossible.

[waverly]

k3am, right?! Honestly, they sound like one of those companies that forecloses on all kinds of people due to paper errors on their part.

[k3am]

OMG yes. I have read horror stories on their reviews and they ring of truth. Like they bought our mortgage but never told us. We received 0 communication from them about it - the only reason I knew about it was because the outgoing lender sent notice when they received our payment after the transfer. It took them months to send notice of where to send payments, which I thankfully already had since I'd been calling them often. There are reviews from people whose prior lender didn't notify them and kept accepting payments, and 3 months later, Shellpoint sent them foreclosure notice.

It sounds ridiculous and like it shouldn't be possible, but based on my experience.. I wouldn't be shocked.

[k3am]

YOU GUYS.

Shellpoint sent payment from our escrow account for our taxes on 11/13 - AFTER they told me to pay them out of pocket and that they COULD NOT and WOULD NOT pay them out of our escrow account.

And despite that, when I originally posted this on 11/18, they were still refusing to give BofA a payoff letter indicating the taxes were paid.

They really are just the gift that keeps on giving.

[imojoebunny]

k3am, That is some serious bs there. Our taxes are $16K, I would be a raging bull, if they fucked that up, and I had to double pay, and wait for a refund who knows when. I am furious for you, and wish that I had some good advice, but both our mortgage companies, and our tax offices, move at the speed of molasses in a freezer. Does your state have laws about double payment, and refunds?

[tripleshot]

Nov 26, 2019 18:41:20 GMT -5 k3am said:

YOU GUYS.

Shellpoint sent payment from our escrow account for our taxes on 11/13 - AFTER they told me to pay them out of pocket and that they COULD NOT and WOULD NOT pay them out of our escrow account.

And despite that, when I originally posted this on 11/18, they were still refusing to give BofA a payoff letter indicating the taxes were paid.

They really are just the gift that keeps on giving.

At this point I’d consider contacting your state’s attorney general office for help. This is ridiculous. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

[covergirl82]

k3am, we had an issue with the bank where we had the mortgage for our last house. They wanted to continue to charge us interest on the days between closing and when they actually processed the payoff check, which was crazy, because the loan didn't exist. I got nowhere with the bank (Fifth Third), so I ended up filing a complaint/request for assistance with the BBB. The BBB threat was what got Fifth Third to back off. Could you file with BBB and/or contact your AG's office?

[k3am]

According to their customer service, they never told us to pay the taxes directly. Well, considering that it was a conference call with my husband AND they were supposedly recording the call, I'm going to say otherwise. According to them, the tax assessor has received the check and will refund it to us directly. According to the tax assessor, they have *not* received payment, and if/when they receive double payment, the amount will be returned to the check originator, not to the property owner. Back to Shellpoint, who says "this is basically all your fault for paying the tax separately," they won't issue a stop payment on the check, and if/when they receive the refund, they will send us a check within 30 days. Oh and that she'll file a complaint on my behalf, since customers are "not authorized" to file complaints.

*sighs*

We started a new complaint with the CFPB, so hopefully something comes out of that. Not optomistic. Hopefully I'll see my $11k sometime in 2020.

[madisen]

I'd be shooting off complaints to the CFPB like you did, BBB, TrustPilot, any social media they have, and try to get the contact info for the president of the company. Lenders and banks hate that stuff.

[k3am]

Our loan is officially paid off. And I now have no access to view anything regarding the prior loan. So I can't tell you what our escrow account was, when payments were made, etc. =\

But I'm one step closer to being done with them (hopefully) forever.

[sadlebred]

k3am That's mostly good news! I hope you get your escrow money back!

[k3am]

Can I just say how nice it is to be out of that hell hole?

I've had to call BofA for a couple items since we got transferred over, and they don't treat me like a criminal. They've never done the "we are a debt collector" speil and actually have been both helpful and pleasant.

We are still trying to track down our tax payment. Apparently DH knows someone who got us in touch with the person who actually applies the payments at the tax assessor office, so she supposedly noted our file and when received, she'll apply it against the April payment vs. their standard practice of refunding it to the originator.

I spent some time googling the "we are a debt collector" spiel, and technically... they're not. They are a servicer, and our loan was not in default when acquired (nor was it ever in default), so they don't meet the requirement of debt collector under the FDCPA rules. My guess is that a large portion of their loan portfolio may meet those requirements though, since they're doing the mini-mirandazing across the board, in which case, it makes a little more sense that EVERY transaction with them felt adversarial.

[k3am]

WE ARE DONE WITH THEM! YAY!

Our April payment is finally marked as received and PAID! Thus ends the nightmare of our mortgage with Shellpoint, the worst mortgage servicer on the face of the planet.