Fostering Independece

[waverly]

For everyone, but especially moms of older kids, what do you do to foster independence? I guess for both kids ages 6 (almost 7) and 9, but especially the 9 year old.

I just read so many articles on how kids have all this anxiety and delayed adolescence nowadays.  Some of it is good (less teenage pregnancy), and some of it is bad like social media induced anxiety, less hanging out with friends, more phone and internet time.  Lots of it relate more to kids in high school, but trying to set my kids up on a more intentionally independent path, and I will cross the high school bridge/ topics later. 

What we have done so far is chores at home.  I don't get too involved in schoolwork unless they are struggling.  9 year old stays home by himself for short periods of time, landline phone skills, 9 year old delivers stuff back and forth to neighbors.  9 year old went to sleep away camp.

6 year old is still more in the dressing herself, doing chores, doing homework and all that independently. 

Anything your kids are doing, especially at those slightly older ages to take on more responsibility? DS had a talk with DH about respecting him.  More because DH is a yeller (DS was throwing his football at the cat water, but DH can state it and not yell), but I think respect has more connotations in treating him as an older kid and also him doing older kid type things. Instead of treating him like a little kid who is always breaking things and injuring himself (even if he is).

[mommyatty]

DD is younger. She’s 7. But we are emphasizing that she’s in charge of her business. We do it in terms of her stuff and her homework. She has to read at least 20 minutes 3 times per week and do her online math at least 3 days per week until she finishes a section. If she doesn’t, she has to sit out at school during recess to do those things. We let her handle ensuring she’s made her plan and worked her plan. She has an iPad Mini she needs for math homework. She’s in charge of making sure it’s put away, charged, and ready for action. She has started doing little things like setting her own timer for reading time. DH jokes that he’s superfluous at this point. At least he used to have to set the timer for her, but now Siri does it for her.

We also are letting DD cook. She makes microwave popcorn and pancakes on the electric griddle and scrambled eggs on the stove. We’ve emphasized she gets to do this because she follows safety protocol and never does anything with a heat source without an adult present.

DH frankly sucks at all of this. Honest to God, he still tries to put DD’s shoes on her. MIL likewise sucks at this. I’ve literally taken shit out of her hands, walked it back to her car, and made DS go get it. She cannot fathom why I think DS should be responsible for carrying in his own backpack and lunch box.

[mrsGreeko]

A couple of years ago when my DH was deployed I had each kid (they were 5, 7, and 10 at the time) make dinner for the family (with age appropriate help, almost none for 10 year old some for 7 year old and lots for 5 year old) once a week. It has unfortunately fallen to the back burner (mostly because they kept making the same things all the time and I couldn’t take any more hot dogs made into Star Wars tie fighters!). But, it was actually really great at teaching them cooking skills.

My motto is “don’t do for them what they can do for themselves.” And I try really hard to keep to that as much as possible.

My 13 year old can cook quite a bit, she does her own laundry, takes care of her own schoolwork including advocating for herself with her teachers (ie I do not contact her teachers when something is incorrect, I make her do it). She babysits. She has stayed home alone for short periods of time starting at age 8. I always made her call her friends to arrange hanging out when she was younger. Now I make her figure out how she is getting to and from places she wants to go with friends. She has went to overnight camp for the past 3 years and overnight field trips with the school since 2nd grade. She also went on a trip to DC/NYC with the school after 6th grade. She’s basically expected to take care of herself and things pertaining to her as well as some things pertaining to the family (ie doing the dinner dishes once a week). She’s expected to pack her own stuff when we go on trips with almost no interventions from me. She will be expected to get her drivers license at 16 and get a job to buy a car and pay for gas and insurance. She regularly goes to the mall with friends and no adult.

My 10 year old will be starting to do her own laundry here soon. She has also stayed home alone for short periods starting around age 8, expected to call her own friends to hang out, goes off around the neighborhood with friends and has for a couple years, expected to take care of most of her own stuff, and some family stuff (dishes once a week). She has also went to overnight camp for the past 3 summers. And has done overnight field trips with the school since 3rd grade.

My 8 year old starts having a dish night this week since he just turned 8 and that’s the magic age in our house. . He will go to overnight camp this coming summer and every summer thereafter. He will start to be allowed to stay home alone for short periods. I make him call his friends to arrange playing (although his friends parents are much much more likely to text me directly than his sister’s friends’ parents ever were).

I make them order for themselves in restaurants and buy things themselves with their allowances/gift money at the store with no intervention.

From what my oldest tells me I am not the norm in most of this because her friends’ parents still do quite a bit of what I will not do for her for their kids. She is glad that I “make/let” her do a lot of the stuff for herself though because she does recognize that it will be helpful later on and she wonders when her friends will learn some of these independence skills...

ETA: one thing I’ve noticed when I pick my kid’s up from after care is that nearly all the parents carry their children’s backpacks for them to the car. I have literally never done that and it drives my kids batty since every other parent is (why?!?), but i absolutely refuse to be their pack mule.

[waverly]

Sounds like I am on the right track, I do a lot of these things. I can definitely increase their responsibilities with food prep and DS's with laundry. He runs the dryer, and I've shown him the washer, but he doesn't do it on a regular basis and forgets. He has cooked things like scrambled eggs before, and DD helped with cinnamon rolls over the weekend.

I do occasionally carry DD's backpack but only if she has a ton of other stuff to carry. I make them carry it otherwise. I make them order their own stuff at restaurants, and I give them money and make them go to counters by themselves. If we are all going, I will go obviously, but if they decide they want more food afterwards or at the pool I give them money and make them ask for it themselves while I watch.

For packing, I think I printed them a list and had them scratch it off last time. I should do it again because I think it was less work for me.

[186momx]

DD 8, 3rd grade. She doesn't have weekly chores but has to do things when I ask her to do them. Things she does: sort laundry, put laundry away, unload dishwasher, clean bathroom, run vacuum, and mop. She keeps her room clean herself and is getting better about keeping her school stuff and gym stuff together.

I still make her lunch but then it is just me packaging leftovers as she has access to a microwave at school.

DD loves to cook and most nights she helps with dinner. She can do most of it on her own now which makes my life really easy. She cooks better than DH.

She is in the minority on what she does and can do.

mrsGreeko, I see parents carrying their kids stuff all the time. I refuse to carry DD's stuff and most of the time make her help carry other stuff in from the car even on late night gym practices.

[mae0111]

We really struggle with this at our house. DD1 struggles so much with exec functioning that it's hard for me to let her flounder sometimes, but I'm getting better about it.

Each kid (10 and 6) is responsible for their school stuff. Each day they hang up coats, empty lunch boxes and other crap from backpacks, empty folders, and start homework. DD1 must make her own lunch. Both kids are expected to do their homework without me, but I'm available if they need help. They are then responsible for packing their own bags back up. So when DD1 leaves her gigantic accordion folder at home because she argued with me about packing it, she loses points for turning in assignments late and not having her folder with her. Earlier this week, she insisted on wearing rainboots to school, but forgot to pack shoes. So she was out of dress code all day with silly purple rain boots. Though she felt much differently, this was not my problem.

I do laundry for everyone because I'm home, and because DD1 leave all her wet stuff in the washing machine for days at a time, causing more work for me. But each kid has a 3-bin sorting hamper, so much of the sorting is done for me. When DD1 gets lazy about it, her stuff gets ruined and she wears pink socks instead of white. I'm trying to figure out what chores I can add aside from cleaning their rooms. Dishwasher stuff is hard because of the set-up in our kitchen, but maybe after we remodel it will be easier. But sweeping, wiping counters, etc. - that happens infrequently.

I've been pushing DD1 to advocate for herself more at school, especially with the mess that's been happening there. she seems to be doing well with it.

[mae0111]

I was in my office waiting for a call from my attorney when I typed my response. In the 20 minutes I was up there, a donnybrook erupted in my family room resulting in bloodshed and screaming.

So apparently no independence for my kids ever.

[cosmowife]

We struggle with this SOOOOO much. It has gotten to the point where we are screaming at the kids constantly because we don’t understand how they can’t take on the simplest responsibilities. It is not a good situation and not sustainable, so we need to figure something out. Even taking away their iPads for extended amounts of time does nothing. So far we’ve been working on having the children bring in their own backpacks. I’ve managed to get them to carry their own bags from school, to the car, and they also most of the time pull them out of the car. However, I’ve also told them that I want them to pull their homework out of their bag. This happens maybe 5% of the time. I cannot get them to do this themselves. I have no idea why. We also have been asking them to clear their own dishes from the table and just put them on the counter. Again this happens only after much screaming from us. Both kids get dressed on their own but, once again, only after much screaming from us. Bedtime routines take close to an hour because of all of the screaming and not listening. My kids are nine and six so not that little. I will be paying attention to this thread because we really need help.

[hocus2]

Nov 20, 2019 16:30:19 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

We struggle with this SOOOOO much. It has gotten to the point where we are screaming at the kids constantly because we don’t understand how they can’t take on the simplest responsibilities.

   
 Is the issue is that they won't what you've asked or that they don't initiate? My kids roll their eyes and one actually groans when we ask sometimes but they generally do our requests and I ignore the other stuff unless it is egregiously rude or they've been really awful. 


Given that you're all on edge I'd consider lowering your bar to meet them half way. If they generally don't remember then reminders are acceptable. If they refusing outright then I would focus on 1 or 2 things at most and work with them on the this goal. Do they have ideas about to be better about this and repercussions if they don't follow the rules? Is homework the most important thing? Dishes? Getting Dressed? Can you zero in on what you want and back off on other stuff? I am also curious what happens if they don't take out their homework. If you just do nothing what would happen?

[waverly]

Nov 20, 2019 16:30:19 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

We struggle with this SOOOOO much. It has gotten to the point where we are screaming at the kids constantly because we don’t understand how they can’t take on the simplest responsibilities. It is not a good situation and not sustainable, so we need to figure something out. Even taking away their iPads for extended amounts of time does nothing. So far we’ve been working on having the children bring in their own backpacks. I’ve managed to get them to carry their own bags from school, to the car, and they also most of the time pull them out of the car. However, I’ve also told them that I want them to pull their homework out of their bag. This happens maybe 5% of the time. I cannot get them to do this themselves. I have no idea why. We also have been asking them to clear their own dishes from the table and just put them on the counter. Again this happens only after much screaming from us. Both kids get dressed on their own but, once again, only after much screaming from us. Bedtime routines take close to an hour because of all of the screaming and not listening. My kids are nine and six so not that little. I will be paying attention to this thread because we really need help.

Is it a newer thing that you are asking or you’ve always asked them? Some kids are not affected by negative consequences. Mine always wanted TV so taking that away thankfully is a good threat.

But if they don’t respond to negative you can try positive like chore charts where they get stickers, win rewards type thing. I do give allowance so that is their reward but the chores are not optional. But easiest is to just make it a routine. You can’t move onto the next step until you complete step one, hang up coat, put away shoes, do homework. It’s like this every single day. Doesn’t mean there isn’t screaming or hasn’t been in the past. But eventually they just know they have to do it and do it. Keeping calm helps and a sense of humor. Make them laugh ask again. We’ve also done 123 Magic before. The most helpful for me about it was taking the emotion out of it.

[waverly]

We’ve also had family meetings on it.

But yes that is my question to what happens when they don’t get out their homework? You yell until they do? You get it out for them? They run away to another part of the house?

[edwardo123]

My ten year old does her own homework with minimal reminders, carries bags in and unpacks everything, loads dishes in dishwasher, packs snack/water bottle, packs swim bag, packs clothes for trips/camp with packing list we create together, carries sports equipment, talks to teachers or coaches for minor problems after role playing with us, helps put away laundry, and helps with her sister. She is fairly mature compared to peers at school and swim. I am shocked that some of her friends are given the responsibility of a phone but can the carry their wet bag with swim crap or handle their own problems without their parents emailing or cornering teachers and coaches over kids saying minor insults.

My five year old dresses herself, puts on and zips coat, carries her bag, packs and carries swim bag and dance bag for lessons with support, orders for self at restaurants, buys snacks at pool snack bar with own money(quarter candy), loads dishes, etc. She does still ride in the stroller a fair amount, but I'm not ready to give up the storage for coats and a cup holder yet. I need to teach her how to tie shoes soon.

I would like my girls to be more independent with cleaning up their rooms without threats of donating everything on the floor. I would also like my 10 year old to start walking to the library and pool (5-6 blocks away)by herself.

[cosmowife]

The boys just don’t do it. We eventually have to get the homework out for them (usually the next morning) because they don’t do it. I am not at a point where I want them to go to school without doing their homework. My older son would probably not even understand this consequence and would just never do homework again. He has ADHD so that is probably part of it. They will run away to another part of the house if we ask them to clear plates. Maybe they will do it if we scream after asking 10 times. It is so frustrating. My father was visiting and witnessed everything and also couldn’t understand why they just didn’t do what we asked. It is so strange. I’m sure the ADHD is probably part of it, and maybe my younger son is just too young. But we’ve set the bar pretty low so I’m not sure how to set it any lower!

[sdlaura]

This is something I struggle with, too. We just always have limited time on weekdays and so many things are so much faster for me to do vs them. But I’m sort of inclined to be a lazy/non helicopter parent and not get involved with their schoolwork or other stuff unless there’s an issue.

My kids are so different in terms of their desire for independence and natural level of responsibility. DD (7) is naturally just really on top of everything. She keeps me in line in terms of telling me where she needs to be at what time, what activities she has on various days, etc. She monitors the time at school aftercare and makes sure she has all her soccer stuff on and then takes herself to practice at the exact right time. The downside is that she freaks out if I’m late to pick her up and take her somewhere. I trust her to walk to school alone (we’re close to the school) and she can’t wait to fly cross country alone in a few years to visit family. DS2 is only 2 but he’s the most independent and organized 2-year-old I’ve ever met. Maybe because he’s been left to his own devices more than the older kids, and he wants to do everything they do. Downside is he flips out if someone tries to take out the trash or recycling or feed the dog without his involvement.

DS1 (almost 6) is almost the complete opposite. I think part of the reason for that is that he’s only 17 months younger than DD and so she tries to do everything for him. DD always wants to do special things with me alone, but DS1 always wants his whole family to come everywhere. I really will need to work with him on independence as he gets older. I have seen some positive signs though - like him completing his limited amount of homework in aftercare without my involvement.

One day I’ll get my act together and give them more chores. I need to figure out what we’re going to do on an allowance too - what do you all do?

[sdlaura]

This is random, but we watched Seth Meyers’ Netflix stand up last night, and he has a really funny bit about why he likes to hang out with people with three or more kids. I recommend the whole thing but that bit was really funny.

[waverly]

ADHD I am sure adds another layer to it. I think in my case they are not allowed to move until they do it. If they leave they are gently brought back. If they sit in the couch and refuse I tell them we can sit there until they do it, and I have no problem sitting there all night. They know I will do it just to prove the point because they know me, so they give in. Homework is done right after school non negotiable 95% of the time. Sometimes there are other activities or they are sick.

Mine are pretty well behaved in general though and don’t have executive functioning problems, so obviously this wouldn’t work for all kids.

[k3am]

DD (6) does pretty well. We've recently started letting her cross the street alone, cutting with a sharp knife, and showering somewhat indepentendly. She carries her own backpack (this was a BIG deal to her JrK teacher, so we've been doing it for a while now). Homework is hit or miss. She's currently trying to earn money to buy Christmas presents, so she gets $0.05 for each night of homework she completes at her afterschool program, and that seems to be pretty good motivation - but my guess is it won't last forever. She needs a lot more guidance in the mornings than I wish she needed. She can't reach her uniforms in the closet, so that slows us down. And even when everything is down and ready to be put on, it still manages to take forever. She does a relatively good job of taking care and track of her things.

DS (3) also does pretty well. Carries his own stuff, can dress himself, etc. He is very good (almost too good) at getting himself whatever he wants without help or permission (which wasn't a thing with DD - I have a love/hate relationship with it)

Both kids are expected to clear their own plates after meals. For messier items, I'll give DS a hand, since his attempts to dump a cereal bowl in the sink have consequences for me. I'm dreaming of the day they're tall enough to unload the whole dishwasher, but for now, they do silverware and kids plates/cups in the morning. Both kids put clothes in the laundry on their own (usually), and both are responsible for putting away their clean laundry in the proper drawers (DS is better about this than DD).

[sunbutter]

As a back drop, kids attend a Quaker school that really focusses on social-emotional skills including independence and finding your voice. This has helped us a great deal.

DS is 11. He did a two week exchange to Mexico when he was 10, I have sent him to a day camp where he knew no one, I made him join a YMCA club last year when we moved where he knew no one.
At home, he takes on a lot of responsibility for his younger sister. He stays at home by himself for short bursts. He can prepare breakfast and lunch for the family (easy stuff). He has chores and an allowance.

DD is 7. She loves jobs around the house including meal preparation. She also stays alone with her brother in short spurts. She is by nature, an independent person.

But like others have mentioned, while I try to make them own their stuff, DH coddles them. Like carrying her out of bed to the breakfast table.🙄

[mrspez07]

It was definitely a process, one summer he didn’t feel ready, and I didn’t feel ready, and the next summer we did. Seems to happen on all the pieces. Having them clear their plates since they were little and now it’s mostly habit, they get lazy sometimes. Framing it as a family help thing early in was the angle that worked.
We let DS1 (10) ride his bike to friends houses or meet friends at the park, just in the last year. Recently a whole pack of them probably rode 5 miles just riding between houses. He walks home from school 2-3 days a week and stays on his own when DH isn’t working from home. We’ve given him tasks in addition to his homework to do, like emptying the dishwasher or watering plants.
For about the last year we’ve been teaching both kids various cooking things, and he’ll do those as he feels like it.
DS2 is 7, so we’re a few years out on substantial independence , but he’s itching to have the same privileges as his brother. He also got sad on Mon morning because I was already in the kitchen and he wanted to make and eat breakfast by himself LOL!

[traveltheworld]

DS (7) does laundry for himself and his sister. He stays home by himself for short periods of time, is responsible for unpacking his school bag, and he makes breakfast for the family every Sunday. DD (4) dresses herself and is responsible for unpacking her school bag and helps her brother with folding the laundry. They both help with unloading the dishwasher. We have a nanny, so I'm very strict about him doing things himself so as to avoid him relying in our nanny. We also try to foster as much independent decision making as we can. We tell them that they always have a choice, but they need to be able and will eto live with the consequences of their choices. So far I think they are doing ok

[sandandsea]

I am short on time and haven’t read the PPS but we have done the following:
1. get themselves dressed, bathroom, hair and teeth in the morning (we will set out clothes), also shoes, jacket and backpack
2. We have a chore/allowance list but honestly it’s hit or miss. We pay per chore completed and haven’t had to pay in months. Things like getting mail, taking out trash, emptying dishwasher, etc are on here. Sometimes he’s super interested other times not at all
3. Set out plates and silverware for dinner and putting dishes in sink and clearing their spots once finished
4. Basic cooking skills. Ds (7) can make scrambled eggs, Mac and cheese, and a few other basics and obviously things like cereal or toast or pbj
5. They also have to pick up toys nightly unless they’ve built something complex (train or legos) that I’ll let stay for up to a week


I know there are more things he could do but sometimes it’s just easier to do it myself than wait on him or have to remind/nag him to do it.