Can she repeat the pre-k year instead of the preschool year?
Originally we asked but they said no, but I am going to ask again if she can move into PreK in Jan for the second half of the year as an option then repeat that year in the 2020/2021 school year?
I would push for this and then evaluate at the end of the spring whether to push for K or do a PreK repeat. But honestly even if she tests into K and then you change your mind... I don’t think they could force you to send her early.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Dec 2, 2019 11:13:47 GMT -5
We tried to start DD early, but her birthday was a few weeks beyond what they allow for kids to test in early. So far, preschool is doing a good job differentiating her work and she isn't bored yet. But they have a play based curriculum and a 3:1 ratio. I worry about next year, as she has basically already mastered the things kindergarteners are supposed to know by the end of the year. We're probably going to homeschool next year and then start her in 2nd grade when she is about to turn 7. Or possibly enroll her in a dual language magnet school for kindergarten, which would provide some extra challenge for her in a different way.
I personally wouldn't test her in early. Just because a kid is a little ahead (or even a lot ahead) academically at 4/5 doesn't mean they will always be that way. Once they are in K, then that's it. These are the peer that they will compete against for everything for the next 13 years. The bell curve will always be based around kids older then her. Think about things like robotics teams, debate teams, orchestra chairs - all kids older then her and shes competing for the same spots. Trying out for spots on sports teams will always be against kids that are older (and there for likely bigger) then her. Middle school is rough, maturity wise. I wouldn't want my kids to already be at a disadvantage before they even start.
Our school district has a "test in" gram, and we did it with DD, who has a mid-September birthday. They basically told us they would be looking for end-of-K level academics from her in the spring that she was 4 and going through the testing. They told us they rarely allow it, and to make sure we had a back-up plan for where she would be going to school that fall if/when she didn't test in. Testing was about 2 hours over about 3 visits with the school psychologist (they allow kids as much time as they need to get through the questions, and DD is creative - for example, she was asked to draw what was missing on a stick figure (a foot, their nose, etc) and DD was drawing in a bracelet and purse and hair bows, in addition to the obvious).
Not only did she get approved to start early, but a boy with a mid-October birthday was also approved. So DD is not THE youngest in her class, but there were kids turning 9 this school year before she turned 8, and she's a few months younger than all of her close friends.
Academically, she's doing phenomenally. At the beginning of each school year, we have heard about how she takes some extra time to get into the classroom routine, and that she needs some extra time on her work. But by this time of year, she has always leveled out with everyone else in that regard (progress reports and conferences are later this week, so the verdict is maybe still out on this year). Her grades have always been excellent so far, though.
Socially, she's definitely a bit less mature than some of the girls in her class, but she's also head and shoulders more mature than some of the boys, LOL. She's got good friends who are on her level, and she gets along pretty well with everyone, as far as I can tell. She's also been in martial arts since kindergarten and is about to test for her first level black belt, and I think that has helped her a lot with both maturity and leadership/self-esteem.
TL;DR - It's a tough call, but you know your child and your district best. See if there are other parents in your district who have done it and what their experience has been like. I think we made the right choice in sending her early, but I'll probably always second-guess it. Also, FWIW, my DS has a late-September birthday, and I never even considered trying to test him in early. He's currently 5 and is the oldest and biggest kid in his Pre-K classroom, which has it's own set of issues - I don't think he's bored per se, but we hear about him being "rambunctious" and acting out a bit, so who knows. Maybe I just have a double standard between girls and boys, or at least between my girl and my boy. I thought DD was ready for K as she was about to turn 5, and I did not see that with DS at all.
We have a later cutoff (12/1), so DD just makes it. She will start K in September, and turn 5 in November next year. I don't have any real concerns about it in her case, and for a kid that seems otherwise ready and is close to the cutoff, I think pursuing evaluation is a great way to make sure you're making the right call. It doesn't obligate you to go for it if she tests well enough.
Here they have to take an IQ test and be in the 99%ile to be considered for early kindergarten. I wouldn’t do it because socially I think it would be more difficult the older they got. I also think having another year to play more isn’t bad for your kid. Kindergarten isn’t as much play as it used to be and I strongly disagree with the way school starts for little kids. I have one kid who is one of the older in his grade because of where his birthday fell and I’m really glad he got another year of more low key curriculum.
Post by covergirl82 on Dec 2, 2019 13:32:42 GMT -5
Does your district have a "young 5s" Kindergarten? Ours does, so we sent DS (July birthday) to that. He is one of the older kids in his grade/among his friends (although size-wise he is smaller for his age, so he fits right in right now), and he basically went to K twice, but DH and I would rather have him start college or a trade school at a young 19 as opposed to a young 18. Also, it is always easier to be ahead academically, as most schools/districts allow students to attend classes at their ability level and/or do dual enrollment for college credit. So far, we have not regretted our decision. We have friends who also had kids (DDs) start K at 6 or almost 6 (two of them have mid-September birthdays) and are now in college, and the friends have never regretted it (and they all say they would make the same decision again).
As it relates to girls, I have a friend whose DD skipped a grade, and is a younger 9 year old (July birthday) in 5th grade. It's ok right now, but I worry what middle school will be like, as some girls in her grade will be up to 2 years older and in a very different place developmentally. Middle school is rough enough, but I worry that my friend's DD will be made fun of or left out because she is younger than and physically developmentally behind other kids.
My best friend from high school has an early October birthday and started school at 4 and my sister's best friend started school at 4 with a November birthday, but I do think that was more common when we were kids. Maybe it's just my district because we have young 5's K, but now there seem to be more kids like my DS who start K older.
Regardless of all that, you know your child best and whatever you decide will be in their best interest!
Also I don’t think we can compare how we did 20+ years ago. The curriculum is so different now. Much more challenging and in a lot of schools (like my son’s) not developmentally appropriate imo. My 1st grader is doing stuff I did in 2nd and 3rd grade. He’s bright and is doing fine academically but he wants to play more and there just isn’t time for that during the day. If he was a year younger trying to do all this? Ugh. Would be a huge challenge.
I would at least contact the school district for more information. You can always change your mind, but you can’t do it if you don’t look into it.
FWIW, my daughter is only about 3 weeks younger than yours and will definitely be starting K on time.
Also, if she’s at a daycare that has a pre-K curriculum, I wouldn’t be too concerned about her missing half of pre-K. I know some people disagree, but I think the line between daycare and pre-K is pretty blurry, if you’re talking about a high quality daycare that follows age appropriate curriculum.
I also just want to reiterate that it’s total bullshit that parents can hold their kid back without any sort of evaluation but kids have to be evaluated to start early, even if they barely miss the cutoff. Cutoffs should either be firm or should have flexibility in both directions. This is a hill I will die on.
I also just want to reiterate that it’s total bullshit that parents can hold their kid back without any sort of evaluation but kids have to be evaluated to start early, even if they barely miss the cutoff. Cutoffs should either be firm or should have flexibility in both directions. This is a hill I will die on.
I agree with you. When we were in discussions about younger DD they said, 'You should redshirt her'. When I asked why the answer was, 'July birthday.' That was not acceptable to me. I did not want to be part of the problem and perpetuate this issue we have with kids and education. Yes, she has some struggles related to being young. But she's also got her head in the clouds and has always walked to the beat of her own drummer. While I do question our decision from time to time, I am fairly certain her quirky nature is prob. more of a reason she's not running with the fast crowd.
My oldest (October Birthday) did pre-k twice—two different schools because it was our daycare and the first imploded. My second (May birthday) ended up in pre-k at age 3 at a public school with mostly kids who missed the real pre-k cutoff (lots of sept/oct birthdays and then my May child. He is doing pre-k again this year for real at a different school (my older son’s school) again with older kids. So...all of that to say, I would push for them to put her in real pre-k and do it twice not the 3 year old room.
Post by lolalolalola on Dec 2, 2019 14:22:50 GMT -5
My kids have December birthdays, and both are the youngest in their classes (12/31 cut-off).
There are often kids who are 14+ months older than them in their grades. I wish I'd held them back from a social perspective.
I was very anti-red shirt (probably from this place), but I am the only person I know IRL with a kid who has a November or December birthday and didn't hold their kid back a year. I totally regret it.
I also just want to reiterate that it’s total bullshit that parents can hold their kid back without any sort of evaluation but kids have to be evaluated to start early, even if they barely miss the cutoff. Cutoffs should either be firm or should have flexibility in both directions. This is a hill I will die on.
This. I grew up in a state with a 12/1 cutoff. If we lived there my kid would be entering K automatically next year. Because this state (county?) has a cutoff of 9/1 she won’t. It’s so freaking arbitrary & for the school to say she now has to have mastered K academics to even enter bc her birthday is like 2 weeks later is crazy. Her parents think she is ready, her pediatrician thinks she is ready and her pre-teacher thinks she is ready. Why can’t she be a normal kindergartener? If she waits until the next year when she’s basically 6, she will be bored!
Post by expectantsteelerfan on Dec 2, 2019 16:22:36 GMT -5
My dd's birthday is 9/16. She started at a preschool that used 9/30 as a cutoff but our school district uses 9/1, so she started when she was 2 in the 3 year old class, then did the 4 year old class, and then we considered trying to start her in K early. We ended up sending her to the 5 year old preschool class and starting her in K when she was almost 6, but as of right now, we regret it. DD is bright, taught herself to read the summer before the 5s class, and has been ahead ever since. She was tested for gifted last spring, but didn't qualify. She still gets pulled out for enrichment in both language arts and math. She complains she is bored (although she doesn't act out luckily) and has asked the teacher for more challenges in spelling especially (she reads at the 5th grade level this year in 2nd). She has gotten 100% on every math and spelling test (the only tests they take that get graded) without reviewing at home at all, and this is my major concern, because she is not learning study skills. She gets 'readers', spelling review sheets, and math practice sheets that aren't due, just sent home to practice if you want to, but whenever I used to try to have her do them, she got them all right and complained she already knew it, so now they all just get thrown out. She is also aware that she is one of the oldest in her class and wishes she were in class with some older kids.
I did a bunch of research beforehand, and I honestly did think it would have been fine to start her early (which has been confirmed by her experience the past 3 years), but mostly I didn't go through with the testing because it was easier just to go along with what the district recommended. My other reason for not starting her was that she is tiny. There are only 2 girls that we know of that are smaller than her in her grade, and one of them is taking growth hormone because of a deficiency.
I don't know if I will always regret not starting her early, but I do now. So if your dd is ahead in terms of maturity and academics, I would at least look into it. You could always try moving her ahead to the preK class, and if she struggles with that, repeat preK and still start kindergarten on time instead of early.
Oh, and do you have any older kids? I feel like part of the reason dd is so ahead is because of ds. She wants to do EVERYTHING he does, so she reads what he is reading, would practice his spelling words with him, he taught her multipliction and division basics already, etc. So that might be another factor.
expectantsteelerfan, DD1 has the same bday, lol. She is the oldest, DD2 is 16m younger and as of now they will will only be a year apart in school, if she starts early they would have a grade between them.
I got an email today from the director and we have a meeting set up for next week (I will be traveling Tue-Thur this week). In the meantime I am going to call the school district just to see what the deal is in my district in case we did want to start her early.
Thank you so much for everyone's thoughts on this!
I also just want to reiterate that it’s total bullshit that parents can hold their kid back without any sort of evaluation but kids have to be evaluated to start early, even if they barely miss the cutoff. Cutoffs should either be firm or should have flexibility in both directions. This is a hill I will die on.
This. I grew up in a state with a 12/1 cutoff. If we lived there my kid would be entering K automatically next year. Because this state (county?) has a cutoff of 9/1 she won’t. It’s so freaking arbitrary & for the school to say she now has to have mastered K academics to even enter bc her birthday is like 2 weeks later is crazy. Her parents think she is ready, her pediatrician thinks she is ready and her pre-teacher thinks she is ready. Why can’t she be a normal kindergartener? If she waits until the next year when she’s basically 6, she will be bored!
Same - we used to live in CT where she would start in September as they have a later cutoff. My family is in NY which has a Dec cutoff.
Post by onetruething on Dec 2, 2019 16:58:17 GMT -5
You are the expert on your child. My DS did this and it was literally the best thing we ever did for him. Everyone and their mother told us we would regret it and he’s 14 now and still thanks us for giving him that gift. Zero regrets!!
I also just want to reiterate that it’s total bullshit that parents can hold their kid back without any sort of evaluation but kids have to be evaluated to start early, even if they barely miss the cutoff. Cutoffs should either be firm or should have flexibility in both directions. This is a hill I will die on.
This. I grew up in a state with a 12/1 cutoff. If we lived there my kid would be entering K automatically next year. Because this state (county?) has a cutoff of 9/1 she won’t. It’s so freaking arbitrary & for the school to say she now has to have mastered K academics to even enter bc her birthday is like 2 weeks later is crazy. Her parents think she is ready, her pediatrician thinks she is ready and her pre-teacher thinks she is ready. Why can’t she be a normal kindergartener? If she waits until the next year when she’s basically 6, she will be bored!
+1 to both of you. I get that it's hard to have kids who are 365 days apart in age in the same class even if nobody redshirted, especially when they are so young and that's like 20% of their lifetimes. But if children close to the cutoff were placed according to professional evaluation, that really should reduce the differences rather than exacerbating them, because kids just aren't all the same. I know the further the kid is from the cutoff the more likely they are to regress to the mean and be best suited for the grade to which their birthday assigns them, but the closer the kid is to the cutoff, the more likely they are to be poorly served by the arbitrarity of it.
I get that parents are often motivated by the wrong things in this regard (money, sports, competitive advantage, bragging rights, etc), and that there are many aspects of development that a child might be advance or not in, so I don't think it should be completely parental discretion, even though parents know their kids best.
My dd's birthday is 9/16. She started at a preschool that used 9/30 as a cutoff but our school district uses 9/1, so she started when she was 2 in the 3 year old class, then did the 4 year old class, and then we considered trying to start her in K early. We ended up sending her to the 5 year old preschool class and starting her in K when she was almost 6, but as of right now, we regret it. DD is bright, taught herself to read the summer before the 5s class, and has been ahead ever since. She was tested for gifted last spring, but didn't qualify. She still gets pulled out for enrichment in both language arts and math. She complains she is bored (although she doesn't act out luckily) and has asked the teacher for more challenges in spelling especially (she reads at the 5th grade level this year in 2nd). She has gotten 100% on every math and spelling test (the only tests they take that get graded) without reviewing at home at all, and this is my major concern, because she is not learning study skills. She gets 'readers', spelling review sheets, and math practice sheets that aren't due, just sent home to practice if you want to, but whenever I used to try to have her do them, she got them all right and complained she already knew it, so now they all just get thrown out. She is also aware that she is one of the oldest in her class and wishes she were in class with some older kids.
I did a bunch of research beforehand, and I honestly did think it would have been fine to start her early (which has been confirmed by her experience the past 3 years), but mostly I didn't go through with the testing because it was easier just to go along with what the district recommended. My other reason for not starting her was that she is tiny. There are only 2 girls that we know of that are smaller than her in her grade, and one of them is taking growth hormone because of a deficiency.
I don't know if I will always regret not starting her early, but I do now. So if your dd is ahead in terms of maturity and academics, I would at least look into it. You could always try moving her ahead to the preK class, and if she struggles with that, repeat preK and still start kindergarten on time instead of early.
Oh, and do you have any older kids? I feel like part of the reason dd is so ahead is because of ds. She wants to do EVERYTHING he does, so she reads what he is reading, would practice his spelling words with him, he taught her multipliction and division basics already, etc. So that might be another factor.
The older kid is very true for us also. My oldest is in K this year- they are 19m apart & she wants to do everything he does. She hears us practicing reading, sight words, etc ands jumps in.
My son missed the cut off by 5 weeks. Our school district does not accept any kids early. He is also gifted which tends to do better being pushed ahead. However like many gifted boy students he has weaknesses like writing for example. He is in 3rd grade now and I am glad we stayed where we are. He has pullouts for advanced math, so he is still being challenged. He isn’t the most mature (not immature either), so I think it worked out for him.
We also had a weird situation at the daycare (preschool). They said he was bored and bumped him to their Kindergarten program. So basically he did one year of K at daycare and the one year of K at public school but public school was half day so he had to go back to daycare for the other half. And that year they didn’t have enough kids for K do they went back to doing a pre-k curriculum do it was a bit messy.
DD has a Jan birthday so it wasn’t an issue, but I moved daycare/ preschools after the 4 year old pre-k room to avoid that weird curriculum issue with the half day K.
I have a late fall birthday and our cut off was Dec 1, but the curriculum back then was easier. For those districts that have a 9/1 cut off they push the curriculum down a year do K is doing what I did in first grade just some good for thought if your school does common core and has a 9/1 cut off. K is not letters anymore it’s learning to read. It’s not learning numbers it’s addition and subtraction (basic).
My daughter has a 10/4 birthday with a 9/1 cutoff. When she went into public school she went into a transitional kindergarten/kindergarten combo class. She was the head of the entire class in regards to the curriculum and her teacher spoke with us about having her tested to continue on to first grade after the year was over. She had her school work submitted to the principal and other district officials as well as had some meetings with a school psychologist to determine if she was socially ready to advance to first early. At the end of the year they recommended we place her in first the next year and we did. She also tested into gate in first grade and we moved her to the gate magnate school in second grade.
She's now in fourth grade and the youngest in her class; however, she is on par with her classmates socially. For her, moving her up was a good idea. It's not one we are even thinking about for my son who has an 11/1 birthday. He is a person who will do better going to K when he is supposed to since he is not ready to do K work now and doesn't work well under pressure/deadlines. All that to say, why not have her tested and see if you even have the option to get her in early. You can decide if you want to/think she's ready if/when she passes their test. I personally don't think she would be socially hindered with only being two weeks from the cutoff date. If she were born 2.5 weeks earlier she would be going to K next year.
I personally wouldn't test her in early. Just because a kid is a little ahead (or even a lot ahead) academically at 4/5 doesn't mean they will always be that way. Once they are in K, then that's it. These are the peer that they will compete against for everything for the next 13 years. The bell curve will always be based around kids older then her. Think about things like robotics teams, debate teams, orchestra chairs - all kids older then her and shes competing for the same spots. Trying out for spots on sports teams will always be against kids that are older (and there for likely bigger) then her. Middle school is rough, maturity wise. I wouldn't want my kids to already be at a disadvantage before they even start.
I completely agree with this. If people would just stick to the cut-offs in both directions unless there is evidence that it's detrimental to the child one way or the other then that would work out best for everyone. I have one child who misses the cut-off by 3 days. He is bright and sociallly savvy (his teacher's words). This means he is a leader in his classroom. When other students struggle, he helps. It's a great growth opportunity for him that he wouldnt probably get as one of the younger kids. I'm glad we won't be sending him to college at 17 (I went to college at 17, it worked out fine, but what's the rush?).
I should also say, I have no issue with children skipping grades when thorough observation and testing indicates it's in that kid's best interest. But I was talking to a K teacher friend of mine who was saying what a great leveling off happens in K - she gets kids who can read and kids who can't and by the end of the year most are falling into the same standard deviation. Such different experiences in those pre-primary years lead to such varying abilities - which don't necessarily speak to the child's ability or potential. I just wouldn't be rushing to skip grades and experiences before kids get to K.
We tried to start DD early, but her birthday was a few weeks beyond what they allow for kids to test in early. So far, preschool is doing a good job differentiating her work and she isn't bored yet. But they have a play based curriculum and a 3:1 ratio. I worry about next year, as she has basically already mastered the things kindergarteners are supposed to know by the end of the year. We're probably going to homeschool next year and then start her in 2nd grade when she is about to turn 7. Or possibly enroll her in a dual language magnet school for kindergarten, which would provide some extra challenge for her in a different way.
I started college at 17. It was no big deal.
DS1 as a late birthday so he just missed the cut off. When he started K he had already met the end year bench marks. He was still never board because K still involved so much play. I mean the vast majority of the day they are in specials (art, PE, music). When not in specials they do centers so he is rotating between activities. Some of the activities are on the ipad so they are let him learn at his own pace (they increase in difficulty as he completes a task) but other centers involve playing with certain toys to work on pattern recognition (but kids just see it as play) He is also in a dual language class, which I do believe provides an extra challenge for him.
Now he is in 2nd grade and working on a 6th grade level and still does not make complaints about being bored. He was identified as gifted in first grade and is given extra projects and is pulled out of class a few times of week. I do wonder if he was not in a dual language class if they would have recommended he skip a grade. Our district doesn't permit starting K early, but a friend of ours is at a neighboring school same district and had similar assessments at the beginning of K and they moved her up to first grade.
Anyway, I am basically saying that good schools/teachers still provide a lot of interesting challenges and fun activities that keep kids entertained and learning. So even if your kid is like mine and meets K benchmarks before K starts they will likely still have a positive experience in K Of course, I know nothing about your local schools, but assuming they are decent education wise.
Every time we have this discussion, I wish that education weren't so strictly divided into grades. I remember learning a few years back about how mixed age classrooms are beneficial for all involved (assuming it's actually a mix, not just one older or younger kid), and if done right can provide appropriate differentiated instruction so that each kid is learning at their level instead of being "behind" or "ahead". Alas, that would probably require more teachers per student (smaller class size).
Delaying school entry isn't allowed here, so I would have zero issues putting DD in kindy early if I felt she was ready. We considered it since she has a birthday very close to the cutoff, but she still doesn't play with other kids and I think the extra year of preschool will give her time to develop better social skills.
Post by steamboat185 on Dec 3, 2019 11:15:16 GMT -5
Our cut off is sometime in October so we have kids with end of September birthdays in DD’s grade. Redshirting isn’t a big deal at DD’s school so I wouldn’t have a big problem moving my kid ahead by a few weeks if she seemed ready.
Post by lovelyshoes on Dec 3, 2019 11:18:57 GMT -5
We couldn’t petition the school because our district didn’t allow it, but my dec baby did pre-k and k with the older kids in daycare and did really well. I really wish he could have gone into 1st in public school, but he had to repeat k. We had a wonderful teacher who gave him extra work in 1st since he already knew the things she was teaching. I would put your daughter in the older class in daycare and see how she does.
Post by dixeedeluxe on Dec 3, 2019 12:28:59 GMT -5
My 9 year old is 21 days past the September 1st cutoff. We just followed the rules figuring they are there for a reason and we'd adjust as needed once she was actually in school. She's pretty sharp. She's in 3rd grade this year and just started getting letter grades. She's in GT for STEM and ELA. She is kind and sympathetic. I also never have to help her with her homework and that makes life REAL easy. She is also pretty shy and I think being around kids older than she is might have held her back socially. We don't experience that with our current situation. Keeping her with her chronological peers worked out really well for us.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)