Every time we have this discussion, I wish that education weren't so strictly divided into grades. I remember learning a few years back about how mixed age classrooms are beneficial for all involved (assuming it's actually a mix, not just one older or younger kid), and if done right can provide appropriate differentiated instruction so that each kid is learning at their level instead of being "behind" or "ahead". Alas, that would probably require more teachers per student (smaller class size).
My son attends a private school with 2 grades in several classes. So there is a 3rd-4th room and 4th-5th room and so forth. The classes are tiny and the school servers a unique population and this set up allows them work place kids with peers they feel are working a close levels vs going strictly by age. I find the mixed ages is far less of a concern at this school than it was at the public with 25 to 30 kids in each class and students were working at all levels.
In the public setting I would have much more opposed to mixed ages. My daughter is only 19 months older than my son and there is NO way they should ever be in the same class if it has so many students. Despite their modest age gap there are working 3 years apart in school at least. Even the best teachers would struggle to address such ranges in skill with 28 kids.
Every time we have this discussion, I wish that education weren't so strictly divided into grades. I remember learning a few years back about how mixed age classrooms are beneficial for all involved (assuming it's actually a mix, not just one older or younger kid), and if done right can provide appropriate differentiated instruction so that each kid is learning at their level instead of being "behind" or "ahead". Alas, that would probably require more teachers per student (smaller class size).
Our school (public charter) had multi-age classes. K was standalone, but 1-2 were mixed, as were 3 and 4. 5 was a stand alone. They weren’t able to continue it because they increased enrollment and for a few reasons it stopped being feasible. However, the kids all switch classes starting in K for literacy and math. So they are only in literacy and math with kids that are approximately at the same level. There are 4 levels of math and 4 levels of literacy in each grade that kids can be placed in. And they can also go up grades if necessary if they are working beyond the majority of the kids in their grade. So this year in 2nd, there are 2 math classes that are working at the 2nd grade curriculum and 2 that are working beyond that. Not sure if they are both 3rd grade or what. And then there is a kid who goes upstairs to 4th or 5th for math. And then each differentiated class is further differentiated in the class to teach every kid at their level. It works really well.
I don’t understand why more schools don’t do it that way.
Post by somersault72 on Dec 5, 2019 12:00:31 GMT -5
Being as close to the cutoff as you are, I'd pursue it. Anecdote: DS had a friend whose mom switched him to private school because his younger sister barely missed the cutoff for public school (out cutoff is August 1 and school starts mid-August), and the private school cutoff wasn't until September.
Our school (public charter) had multi-age classes. K was standalone, but 1-2 were mixed, as were 3 and 4. 5 was a stand alone. They weren’t able to continue it because they increased enrollment and for a few reasons it stopped being feasible. However, the kids all switch classes starting in K for literacy and math. So they are only in literacy and math with kids that are approximately at the same level. There are 4 levels of math and 4 levels of literacy in each grade that kids can be placed in. And they can also go up grades if necessary if they are working beyond the majority of the kids in their grade. So this year in 2nd, there are 2 math classes that are working at the 2nd grade curriculum and 2 that are working beyond that. Not sure if they are both 3rd grade or what. And then there is a kid who goes upstairs to 4th or 5th for math. And then each differentiated class is further differentiated in the class to teach every kid at their level. It works really well.
I don’t understand why more schools don’t do it that way.
Because it doesn't scale with larger schools or even with smaller schools with limited resources.
Our school is almost 700 and has almost 30 classes. Lunch spans 3 periods and then you have specials like art and music so there is no way to ensure that math happens at the same time across more than a few classes. Once a month there is a parent open class session and even that is disruptive and requires switching the timing of things.
In a small school you might have an art teacher just 2 days a week so he would have class after class which means each individual class has prep at a different time.
If you decide to go ahead with early admission and it doesn't work out, you always have the option of repeating Kindergarten as well. Most studies say retention doesn't work, but that is for that age group, not pushed ahead, and if you are to retain K is the best year to do it.
I have a friend with a daughter with a mid August birthday, and she did send her to K at a private school. The private school has the same cut off as public of Sept 1. It didn't end up going well and the daughter repeated K. And it was cheaper than daycare. I am not saying it is ideal, but the daughter is doing well now. And I don't think it made a big difference to do one more year of daycare or one more year of K. They were at a daycare center, so there was some curriculum there.
Post by barefootcontessa on Dec 5, 2019 17:24:46 GMT -5
I have not read the replies, but I would think more long term than just the next couple of years. Like how relatively young she will be in high school (especially if there is red-shirting in your district), how you would feel about her going to college at 17, etc. We had a similar situation and my son stayed back. He is 13 now and I am glad he is a little older as opposed to being a year younger.
Post by bookqueen15 on Dec 5, 2019 19:54:50 GMT -5
Based on our experience with my DD in kindergarten this year, no way would I start my child early even if their birthday was right at the cutoff. Kindergarten in public school (at least in my state) is pretty developmentally inappropriate. The work she is doing is what I did in 1st/2nd grade, there is very little play based learning happening. They don't even do any art or craft projects. My DD has a March birthday so she is right in the middle but the amount of time they expect them to sit quietly at their desks just isn't appropriate for 5 year olds, especially a young 5 year old.
Based on our experience with my DD in kindergarten this year, no way would I start my child early even if their birthday was right at the cutoff. Kindergarten in public school (at least in my state) is pretty developmentally inappropriate. The work she is doing is what I did in 1st/2nd grade, there is very little play based learning happening. They don't even do any art or craft projects. My DD has a March birthday so she is right in the middle but the amount of time they expect them to sit quietly at their desks just isn't appropriate for 5 year olds, especially a young 5 year old.
This definitely varies a lot. My 5 yo is in K this year and it’s based on his experience that I feel more confident that my younger one with a birthday 3 weeks past cutoff would be successful next year.
Post by penguingrrl on Dec 5, 2019 22:33:06 GMT -5
I would keep her with the grade her birthdate puts her with honestly. Schools are generally very good at differentiating instruction, and expectations really are set for the average age of a class.
I have a kid who’s one of the youngest in her grade (late August birthday, 9/30 cut off). She’s in 7th grade now and until this moment I never thought twice about it. She has always thrived academically and has always done well socially. Teachers are usually surprised that she’s “so young” based on her behavior in class.
This year the expectations of maturity and responsibility level are really catching up to her (especially with rampant redshirting and a lot of kids in her grade being 18 months older than her) and it’s been a really rough transition to handling new expectations that I think are geared towards kids 9-15 months older than her. It’s the first time I’ve ever even considered that red shirting her might have been beneficial due to teachers expectations being aligned to a full year older. She was easily able to cope and manage through elementary school and even this year her grades haven’t suffered at all, unfortunately her mental health has suffered instead. I would not rush your DD in. Elementary school isn’t the only time the maturity and brain development are major factors; middle school is difficult enough without being held to age inappropriate standards because you’re younger than your grade.
Based on our experience with my DD in kindergarten this year, no way would I start my child early even if their birthday was right at the cutoff. Kindergarten in public school (at least in my state) is pretty developmentally inappropriate. The work she is doing is what I did in 1st/2nd grade, there is very little play based learning happening. They don't even do any art or craft projects. My DD has a March birthday so she is right in the middle but the amount of time they expect them to sit quietly at their desks just isn't appropriate for 5 year olds, especially a young 5 year old.
Really? Your child's school doesn't have art class in kindergarten? Is it like that in upper grades as well? This has not been my experience in public school. Yes, there is arguably more learning than when we were kids but they still have art, music, gym, recess and do a lot of 'fun' work like coloring and connect the dots, etc.
My son is in 1st grade, but he doesn't have music this semester. He will have it after Christmas break, however last year they mostly watched videos in music class. He has art once per week. He does not bring home crafts or coloring outside of that really. He has PE twice a week. They get one 15 min recess each day, and that time includes putting jackets on and walking outside. They cut the Spanish program this year.
He goes to a DODEA school which I naively assumed would be better than it is. If we lived here long term I'd figure something else out for him, unfortunately the public schools off base are not great and the private school is $10,000 a year which we'd have to really weigh if it was worth it or not.
He did the first half of kindergarten in another state where he had THREE recesses throughout the day, lots of different stations and methods of learning and instruction and the thrived there and LOVED school. It amazes me how different schools are from place to place. It's a challenge for us since we move so often.
Based on our experience with my DD in kindergarten this year, no way would I start my child early even if their birthday was right at the cutoff. Kindergarten in public school (at least in my state) is pretty developmentally inappropriate. The work she is doing is what I did in 1st/2nd grade, there is very little play based learning happening. They don't even do any art or craft projects. My DD has a March birthday so she is right in the middle but the amount of time they expect them to sit quietly at their desks just isn't appropriate for 5 year olds, especially a young 5 year old.
Really? Your child's school doesn't have art class in kindergarten? Is it like that in upper grades as well? This has not been my experience in public school. Yes, there is arguably more learning than when we were kids but they still have art, music, gym, recess and do a lot of 'fun' work like coloring and connect the dots, etc.
They do have art (plus music and gym) that they go to occasionally. It's not even weekly though. They do have recess everyday though, which my daughter loves the most, lol! I was more referring to in the classroom, all they do are worksheets and the occasional coloring sheet. Maybe that's standard now, but it seems that in kindergarten at least there could be some creative art or craft projects related to the learning goals. From what I have seen and what my daughter tells they don't do a lot of fun activities in the classroom. She says she is bored and doesn't like going to school now. But she loved preschool and Pre-K last year. We haven't had the best kindergarten year so far, I probably shouldn't have responded at all because I realize my viewpoint is pretty colored by her current experience in kindergarten. She is in a large double class with two teachers who are both brand new to the district and school and pretty new teachers themselves.
Really? Your child's school doesn't have art class in kindergarten? Is it like that in upper grades as well? This has not been my experience in public school. Yes, there is arguably more learning than when we were kids but they still have art, music, gym, recess and do a lot of 'fun' work like coloring and connect the dots, etc.
My son is in 1st grade, but he doesn't have music this semester. He will have it after Christmas break, however last year they mostly watched videos in music class. He has art once per week. He does not bring home crafts or coloring outside of that really. He has PE twice a week. They get one 15 min recess each day, and that time includes putting jackets on and walking outside. They cut the Spanish program this year.
He goes to a DODEA school which I naively assumed would be better than it is. If we lived here long term I'd figure something else out for him, unfortunately the public schools off base are not great and the private school is $10,000 a year which we'd have to really weigh if it was worth it or not.
He did the first half of kindergarten in another state where he had THREE recesses throughout the day, lots of different stations and methods of learning and instruction and the thrived there and LOVED school. It amazes me how different schools are from place to place. It's a challenge for us since we move so often.
My DD says she doesn't like music class and is very vague when I ask her what they do, I wonder what it really includes. It is crazy how different public schools vary from state to state and even different districts within the state. My DD is going to one of the top rated elementary schools in our district that everyone raved about but I am very underwhelmed thus far. She's in a very large combined class with two brand new teachers, so I think this contributing as well. I have started looking into other options for next year. My DD says school is boring and she doesn't like school and it just breaks my heart, when she loved school previously! I just don't think the traditional public school in our district is the best fit for her, the challenge is trying to find what may be a better fit and private school really isn't in our budget at the moment with my DS in full time daycare. I am looking into two magnet schools near us and entered her in the lottery for next, but that's probably a long shot.
Really? Your child's school doesn't have art class in kindergarten? Is it like that in upper grades as well? This has not been my experience in public school. Yes, there is arguably more learning than when we were kids but they still have art, music, gym, recess and do a lot of 'fun' work like coloring and connect the dots, etc.
They do have art (plus music and gym) that they go to occasionally. It's not even weekly though. They do have recess everyday though, which my daughter loves the most, lol! I was more referring to in the classroom, all they do are worksheets and the occasional coloring sheet. Maybe that's standard now, but it seems that in kindergarten at least there could be some creative art or craft projects related to the learning goals. From what I have seen and what my daughter tells they don't do a lot of fun activities in the classroom. She says she is bored and doesn't like going to school now. But she loved preschool and Pre-K last year. We haven't had the best kindergarten year so far, I probably shouldn't have responded at all because I realize my viewpoint is pretty colored by her current experience in kindergarten. She is in a large double class with two teachers who are both brand new to the district and school and pretty new teachers themselves.
This makes me so sad our school/K experience has been very different (public school in Maryland)- 30m of recess/playground a day, PE for 30m 3x a week, art for an hour, music, technology class all weekly. The classroom learning has lots of crafty type things to reinforce concepts, often with stories read to go along with it. Centers/free choice daily also. They have 1-3 worksheets daily, but they color on them and they are more fun (?) than just writing answers. Having a bad K experience to set kids up for not liking school is awful