4th grade Field trip Question (NC people) UPDATE

[CrazyLucky]

DS is in 4th grade in a rural NC school.  They have an upcoming field trip to the birthplace of Charels B Aycock, an NC governor in the 1900s.  I looked up their website, and it seems very one-sided.  Mostly about how he expanded education.  I couldn't find anything about acknowledging he was a white supremacist who disenfranchised blacks.  I asked DS what he had learned about Aycock in school, and he talked about education.  So I sent a note to his teacher.  It was polite and explained my concerns that DS was not getting the complete story.  She wrote back that he doesn't have to go on the field trip and that they will cover civil rights later in the year.  I feel like she purposely missed my point that I don't think Aycock should be presented as some kind of hero, and that they need to discuss his white supremacy.  Or at least mention it!  I don't want DS to miss a field trip.  I know I can educate him apart from school.  But I feel like this is a bigger thing, and I'm not sure what to do next with it. What do you think is the best way to follow up?


12/17/19:
Not a great update.  I played phone tag with the curriculum lady enough that she gave up and emailed me:

I have attached a link with the 4th grade Social Studies Standards. Please feel free to review. The standards do include a focus on North Carolina history and historical figures and landmarks so the field trip does fit within the standard course of study required by the state; however, I understand your perspective. *Social studies teacher* will provide a cultural and historical context for the field trip to ensure students get a full perspective but we encourage parents to provide more guidance and historical perspectives. 

The last line really bothers me.  I don't think it's realistic for me as a parent to have to research everything my kids are learning about to make sure it's accurate and complete.  The field trip is today and I've primed DS with questions.  I wrote to the historical site and they never responded.  I wrote back to curriculum leader and politely told her I thought her answer sucked.  I want to say something like, "This right here is why I tell people all the stereotypes about the south are true.  The good ones and the bad ones."

[isabel]

Oof. I would not be pleased with that response at all. Is this a theme with your school? Do you think moving up the chain would be helpful?

I think, personally, my next step would be to respond to her and say, "I don't want DS to miss the field trip and appreciate that he is being taught about important figures in our state. However, it would be wrong to gloss over the fact that Aycock was a white supremacist. I do not feel this is a topic that can be relegated to only the civil rights unit. Does the curriculum address his disenfranchisement of black people during this era? If not, why? As I said, I think it's important that DS attend the field trip and continue to learn about the history of our state, but I am also concerned that he and other students are missing some very important themes about our first governor."

(And then I would edit the crap out of that and reword all of it because that's my off the cuff response.)

Depending on her response, I would possibly escalate.

This is pretty underhanded, but my other thought is that if your kid is an outspoken one, you could talk to him about how problematic this governor was for black people and let him know that it's ok to ask questions about this during his field trip.

[Rainyday]

I would compose a bullet point report stating facts about him and the more recent actions removing his name from fundraisers, schools and university buildings. There are plenty of recent examples of larger institutions removing his name/denouncing his racist platform.
Present the report to the teacher via email with a CC to the school principal and the school district. If Aycock is going to be part of the curriculum then the whole picture needs to be taught at the same time. You can’t just revisit Civil Rights “later”, that’s some bullshit.
You also need to offer part of the solution IMO, offer alternative ideas for a field trip, talk about why his name has been removed and why his ideas were racist and unfair.
If you’re not comfortable with all of that you have the option to dissent by keeping your child home or going as a chaperone to observe.
Another option is to attend your local school board meeting and bringing this to their attention in a public forum, people probably have no idea about this.
You can especially give a full picture if you chaperone the trip. Obviously chaperoning or keeping your kids home is not an option for many people, but if you can that would be a valuable contribution from you (if you went and came back with a constructive report on how to improve this lesson).

[mccallister84]

There is a very small chance that the teacher has any say in the curriculum. In my district there’s an office of social studies that would be responsible for this.

[CrazyLucky]

Thanks. My kid is outspoken, so I've definitely considered having him innocently ask some questions.
They specifically said space is limited and no parent chaperones are permitted to go. I hate that the response implies that she thinks it's ok to not talk about Aycock's white supremacy because they're talking about civil rights later.

I can do some research about all the things that make Aycock bad, but I'm so frustrated to have to put that kind of effort in. I have real concerns that even if I presented it to the school district, they'd be like "meh." You did give me an idea though! Our principal from last year is now the elementary school curriculum director for the district. I will contact her!

Thanks again.

[imojoebunny]

I would be urked to no end, if they did not explain to the children, that this person's work was only for white people. You do not "cover civil rights later", you cover civil rights, all along in the context of all history. Does your school or district have any sort of equity contact person or committee? I would raise this issue with the principal, if not.

[wanderingback]

Dec 5, 2019 9:43:55 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

There is a very small chance that the teacher has any say in the curriculum. In my district there’s an office of social studies that would be responsible for this.

Are teachers unable to explain slavery or civil rights only during a certain time of the year? Are teachers unable to use recent news articles about an historical figure that is in a textbook? Or do teachers literally have to say word for word what is in a textbook without deviation from that text in any scenario?

[isabel]

Dec 5, 2019 9:43:55 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

There is a very small chance that the teacher has any say in the curriculum. In my district there’s an office of social studies that would be responsible for this.

In the curriculum or not, actively choosing not to provide the full picture about historical figures, white supremacy, and the impact of their actions on people of color is both morally and professionally wrong. It may not be in the curriculum, but she is failing her students by choosing not to address this.

[mccallister84]

Dec 5, 2019 10:12:02 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Dec 5, 2019 9:43:55 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

There is a very small chance that the teacher has any say in the curriculum. In my district there’s an office of social studies that would be responsible for this.

Are teachers unable to explain slavery or civil rights only during a certain time of the year? Are teachers unable to use recent news articles about an historical figure that is in a textbook? Or do teachers literally have to say word for word what is in a textbook without deviation from that text in any scenario?

In some districts, yes. There are many scripted curriculums - I taught with one.

I’m not saying the parent is wrong to contact the teacher, but I also think the problem is much bigger than this one teacher.

[wanderingback]

Dec 5, 2019 11:19:21 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

Dec 5, 2019 10:12:02 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Are teachers unable to explain slavery or civil rights only during a certain time of the year? Are teachers unable to use recent news articles about an historical figure that is in a textbook? Or do teachers literally have to say word for word what is in a textbook without deviation from that text in any scenario?

In some districts, yes. There are many scripted curriculums - I taught with one.

I’m not saying the parent is wrong to contact the teacher, but I also think the problem is much bigger than this one teacher.

That’s messed up. So what do you do if a child asks you a question off script? Who monitors that you stay on-script daily and don’t add an extra sentence to what the text says? With technology and current events ever changing that’s ridiculous that you can’t supplement lessons with today’s issues, since text books/lessons aren’t updated daily. Like to completely not talk about impeachment and it’s history even during a warm-up exercise right now seems crazy to me. I didn’t realize teaching had gotten so bad (my mom just retired).

[ohgillian]

This is an inappropriate field trip. Given all the controversy about Aycock in recent years, I'm surprised (but I guess not) that it's still in the curriculum. A few NC universities have taken his name off buildings, and even the NCGA tried to get him out of statuary hall a few years ago -- although I don't remember how that effort panned out. If the R-led NCGA was okay with displacing him, that really says something.

But what angers me the most is the "it's okay, we're going to toss some token coverage of civil rights in later" as if that's a topic that should only be covered during the "right" month. WTF. You aren't over-reacting. You may be underreacting.

[tacokick]

Dec 5, 2019 11:27:05 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Dec 5, 2019 11:19:21 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

In some districts, yes. There are many scripted curriculums - I taught with one.

I’m not saying the parent is wrong to contact the teacher, but I also think the problem is much bigger than this one teacher.

That’s messed up. So what do you do if a child asks you a question off script? Who monitors that you stay on-script daily and don’t add an extra sentence to what the text says? With technology and current events ever changing that’s ridiculous that you can’t supplement lessons with today’s issues, since text books/lessons aren’t updated daily. Like to completely not talk about impeachment and it’s history even during a warm-up exercise right now seems crazy to me. I didn’t realize teaching had gotten so bad (my mom just retired).

Oh, I had to teach from a script at one school (that I promptly left) and we were monitored very closely by staff and frequently recorded. We absolutely could not go off script. If we did we were “released” from our contracts.

That said, that doesn’t seem to be the case here at all and this teacher clearly doesn’t see it as an issue and is dismissive. I would push back here. Her response is inappropriate.

[cville]

So, my 4th grade kid had a field trip recently to a house owned by a rich white slaveowning family. I went along because I had the time and wanted to see this up close. And my kid had been talking about the (great, complex, important) prep work the teacher had been doing.

They talked about the owners, their business interests, their positive contributions (first local library)...and then they talked about slavery. How they benefitted from unpaid labor. Stories of cruelty. How their wealth was, in part, people. There were black and white and Native American reenactors (male and female) who spoke in "their own" voice with their own views, representing different real people from different timeframes. It was harsh at times and unapologetic. And it treated the 4th graders like they're capable of understanding nuance. And not like "civil rights" was a one time thing from the 50s and 60s that you discuss only in February.

Point being, the teacher's response is for shit because context and complexity are possible. I'd definitely respond. And I'd call the birthplace itself and ask directly what they present to children.

[isabel]

Dec 5, 2019 12:01:10 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Dec 5, 2019 11:27:05 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

That’s messed up. So what do you do if a child asks you a question off script? Who monitors that you stay on-script daily and don’t add an extra sentence to what the text says? With technology and current events ever changing that’s ridiculous that you can’t supplement lessons with today’s issues, since text books/lessons aren’t updated daily. Like to completely not talk about impeachment and it’s history even during a warm-up exercise right now seems crazy to me. I didn’t realize teaching had gotten so bad (my mom just retired).

Oh, I had to teach from a script at one school (that I promptly left) and we were monitored very closely by staff and frequently recorded. We absolutely could not go off script. If we did we were “released” from our contracts.

That said, that doesn’t seem to be the case here at all and this teacher clearly doesn’t see it as an issue and is dismissive. I would push back here. Her response is inappropriate.

Ok, so in a lesson talking about the powers of the branches of government, a kid says "how does impeachment work? Can you help us understand what's happening right now with Trump?" Your response is, "As I was saying, the Senate is responsible for..." 

This is such a bizarre concept. You can't teach if you can't answer questions and provide relateable examples.

[tacokick]

Dec 5, 2019 12:05:24 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 5, 2019 12:01:10 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Oh, I had to teach from a script at one school (that I promptly left) and we were monitored very closely by staff and frequently recorded. We absolutely could not go off script. If we did we were “released” from our contracts.

That said, that doesn’t seem to be the case here at all and this teacher clearly doesn’t see it as an issue and is dismissive. I would push back here. Her response is inappropriate.

Ok, so in a lesson talking about the powers of the branches of government, a kid says "how does impeachment work? Can you help us understand what's happening right now with Trump?" Your response is, "As I was saying, the Senate is responsible for..." 

This is such a bizarre concept. You can't teach if you can't answer questions and provide relateable examples.

Literally, yes. It’s called Direct Instruction, it’s not inquiry based at all. It can vary school to school but we had an exact script, everything was timed and scheduled. We had an extended day with no recess and it was all scripts all day. It was/is popular in a lot of lower income, lower preforming schools.

Here’s an article that gives some examples:

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/dec/05/drill-english-schools-scripted-lessons-raise-standards-michaela

It was very tedious as a teacher and for the students. I knew some teachers who loved it.

[isabel]

Dec 5, 2019 12:37:30 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Dec 5, 2019 12:05:24 GMT -5 isabel said:

Ok, so in a lesson talking about the powers of the branches of government, a kid says "how does impeachment work? Can you help us understand what's happening right now with Trump?" Your response is, "As I was saying, the Senate is responsible for..." 

This is such a bizarre concept. You can't teach if you can't answer questions and provide relateable examples.

Literally, yes. It’s called Direct Instruction, it’s not inquiry based at all. It can vary school to school but we had an exact script, everything was timed and scheduled. We had an extended day with no recess and it was all scripts all day. It was/is popular in a low of lower income, lower preforming schools.

Here’s an article that gives some examples:

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/dec/05/drill-english-schools-scripted-lessons-raise-standards-michaela

It was very tedious as a teacher and for the students. I knew some teachers who loved it.

Wow. That's really awful. I'm looking forward to reading that article. It's fascinating in a horrifying kind of way.

[readyin07]

Oh I would not be pleased with any of this. I would be contacting the site to ask how this material is presented during the field trip and of there is a public Facebook page I would post there too.

I would also not be satisfied with the teacher’s response and I would probably enjoy a personal meeting to discuss why discussing a venerated public figure’s shameful as f - past doesn’t need to wait for its appropriate “time” of the year. This should all be integrated. I’m going to hope she’s just a misinformed white person blindly following curriculum protocols instead if something else

[tacokick]

Dec 5, 2019 12:38:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 5, 2019 12:37:30 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Literally, yes. It’s called Direct Instruction, it’s not inquiry based at all. It can vary school to school but we had an exact script, everything was timed and scheduled. We had an extended day with no recess and it was all scripts all day. It was/is popular in a low of lower income, lower preforming schools.

Here’s an article that gives some examples:

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/dec/05/drill-english-schools-scripted-lessons-raise-standards-michaela

It was very tedious as a teacher and for the students. I knew some teachers who loved it.

Wow. That's really awful. I'm looking forward to reading that article. It's fascinating in a horrifying kind of way.

It certainly didn’t foster a love of learning or a lot of critical thinking but I would say that kids really did pick up math and reading skills quickly.

One “advantage” is that you don’t need much training to do it. Very inexperienced (or to be blunt), not very bright or creative teachers could do very well teaching this way. You don’t need to know the subject really at all. Which is IMO not good but honestly helpful when you are teaching at a school with high turnover and a lot of very inexperienced teachers.

Proponents of DI say that it leaves you time as a teacher to focus on creative ways to present the scripts but I basically never found that to be true and in most cases we were not allowed to anyway.

There is a lot about DI out there if you’re interested. Overview video:

youtu.be/TkjxO3PSzwk

[wanderingback]

Dec 5, 2019 12:01:10 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Dec 5, 2019 11:27:05 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

That’s messed up. So what do you do if a child asks you a question off script? Who monitors that you stay on-script daily and don’t add an extra sentence to what the text says? With technology and current events ever changing that’s ridiculous that you can’t supplement lessons with today’s issues, since text books/lessons aren’t updated daily. Like to completely not talk about impeachment and it’s history even during a warm-up exercise right now seems crazy to me. I didn’t realize teaching had gotten so bad (my mom just retired).

Oh, I had to teach from a script at one school (that I promptly left) and we were monitored very closely by staff and frequently recorded. We absolutely could not go off script. If we did we were “released” from our contracts.

That said, that doesn’t seem to be the case here at all and this teacher clearly doesn’t see it as an issue and is dismissive. I would push back here. Her response is inappropriate.

Ugh that's so horrible. So how did you respond to student questions? Just ignore them? Not surprising you didn't last there, surprising that they even had teachers. Might as well just hire robots  

And yes agreed about this teacher. It's rather disheartening. 

[raleighnc]

I think going to the district curriculum director is a good first step. Hopefully they will consider modifying the curriculum as well as changing to a different field trip destination. There's no reason to spend time and resources discussing Aycock just because his birthplace is local. Unless they are going to present a unit that properly frames him as helping to overthrow a legitimate government and usher in Jim Crow, Aycock doesn't need to be in the curriculum at all. There are lots of other historic figures they can study who weren't white supremacists.

[tacokick]

Dec 5, 2019 13:51:37 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Dec 5, 2019 12:01:10 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Oh, I had to teach from a script at one school (that I promptly left) and we were monitored very closely by staff and frequently recorded. We absolutely could not go off script. If we did we were “released” from our contracts.

That said, that doesn’t seem to be the case here at all and this teacher clearly doesn’t see it as an issue and is dismissive. I would push back here. Her response is inappropriate.

Ugh that's so horrible. So how did you respond to student questions? Just ignore them? Not surprising you didn't last there, surprising that they even had teachers. Might as well just hire robots  

And yes agreed about this teacher. It's rather disheartening. 

I’d try to answer them quickly and move on when not being monitored. The kids knew the drill though and honestly didn’t ask that many questions. It was really sad.

This teacher doesn’t seem to care about the issue clearly being raised at all! I’d really escalate if this was my child.

[erbear]

Dec 5, 2019 9:43:55 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

There is a very small chance that the teacher has any say in the curriculum. In my district there’s an office of social studies that would be responsible for this.

This. I would go to the teacher first with your concerns but the chances are good that she's following the state-mandated curriculum. While some teachers add their own material, she is required by law to follow it. You have to go to the school board or whoever decides the curriculum.

[erbear]

Dec 5, 2019 10:12:02 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Dec 5, 2019 9:43:55 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

There is a very small chance that the teacher has any say in the curriculum. In my district there’s an office of social studies that would be responsible for this.

Are teachers unable to explain slavery or civil rights only during a certain time of the year? Are teachers unable to use recent news articles about an historical figure that is in a textbook? Or do teachers literally have to say word for word what is in a textbook without deviation from that text in any scenario?

I bet the state tests only ask about his heroic acts. Eye roll. Lots of teachers do not stray from the scripted curriculum, to the detriment of actual learning. #whyIleftpublicschool

[VillainV]

I used to live VERY close to there, and I agree that the only way to appropriately present Aycock as a historical figure is to discuss his white supremacy and the impact it had on the state and on Wayne County. The effects can still clearly be seen.

[Jo]

I think a lot of really good points have been raised here and I won’t repeat what’s already been said. I just wanted to add that my 4th grader in NC public schools has also done some work on NC history this year. Her class studied the Cherokee Trail of Tears, in a way that was very appropriate for 4th graders but did not cover up the racism and devastation of our state history, so it’s possible to teach about our history of racism and white supremacy appropriately in North Carolina. 

I would be very angry with that curriculum and that teacher. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.

[lolo]

This is a really useful resource for teachers who are looking for support around teaching slavery: www.tolerance.org/frameworks/teaching-hard-history/american-slavery/k-5-framework

There is absolutely scope to advocate around this, and I encourage you to continue working in your district or with broader PTA groups or others to ensure our children know what happened and what it means for us today.

[raleighnc]

I also have a fourth grader (in Wake County) and as far as I know, there is no state mandate to study Aycock or any specific historical figures or certain governors. At least from the state standards reference guide I've seen, fourth grade social studies is supposed to cover from the pre-colonial era to Reconstruction, so Aycock is well outside that range. I imagine that it's an easy, local field trip that a lot of schools have traditionally done, but that doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It's good that you are pushing back.

If they are set on including a governor from Wayne County in the curriculum, there's no reason they can't study Brogden instead, who held a million different offices over 50 years and supported black suffrage and a state-supported black college. He wasn't perfect and served in the government during the Confederacy, but he seems to have been a damn sight better than Aycock.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Hooks_Brogden

There were also many African-Americans who held office during Reconstruction in NC that would be better subjects to study. And it would provide some background when they "cover civil rights" later in the year as to how there was a brief period of time in which male African-Americans were able to vote more freely and hold state and national political offices before a violent campaign of disenfranchisement and the rise of Jim Crow laws.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_officeholders_during_Reconstruction#North_Carolina
www.ncpedia.org/biography/hyman-john-adams


drive.google.com/open?id=17nTqiNX81V7Ps9Dsj0hlL5j4f2H1cBs6

Keep pushing!