Playing With FIRE documentary (free to watch until 12/11)

[farmvillelover]

It’s free to watch for a limited time

travelinspireconnect.wordpress.com/2019/12/06/limited-time-watch-the-playing-with-fire-documentary-for-free/.

[lolalolalola]

Thanks! Did you watch it?

[farmvillelover]

Dec 6, 2019 8:35:30 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

Thanks! Did you watch it?

I did! No spoilers. I thought it was interesting and worth the watch to see how some people are really willing to change their entire lifestyle to pursue financial independence/early retirement. I don’t seek the RE part of FIRE so I couldn’t relate a ton but I think it was still worth watching.

[imojoebunny]

Thanks for sharing. The biggest thing people should get from this, is that thinking and talking about money, especially in relation to your values and goals, can help you achieve them.

[lolalolalola]

Dec 6, 2019 9:55:00 GMT -5 farmvillelover said:

Dec 6, 2019 8:35:30 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

Thanks! Did you watch it?

I did! No spoilers. I thought it was interesting and worth the watch to see how some people are really willing to change their entire lifestyle to pursue financial independence/early retirement. I don’t seek the RE part of FIRE so I couldn’t relate a ton but I think it was still worth watching.

Thanks - I watched it too. I have no desire to FIRE but we are only saving 20% and could be saving a LOT more. We have definitely had lifestyle creep and I don’t know how to stop it. I know we have lots of places to cut spending, like our cleaners, convenience food and big travel budget. But some decisions are not easy to undo- like we bought a million dollar home and spend $30k/year on private school.

[waverly]

The FIRE movement is interesting to me. I am sure some are retired. Some of them, I think just have a little money in the bank to make a lifestyle change though like move to a farm, stay at home parent, work part time, change jobs, open their own business, work remotely. So sometimes I wonder if the RE part is a bit of a misnomer in a lot of cases, but I am sure there are some that actually are retired at 30. Humans I think are meant to do something meaningful though, so I think a lot of people would still chose to work at 30, but have more attractive work options with some cash in the bank.

lolalolalola, Is it medium ish (not easy, not terribly difficult) to switch to public schools? Or have you started down a path....?

[lolalolalola]

Dec 6, 2019 14:59:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

The FIRE movement is interesting to me. I am sure some are retired. Some of them, I think just have a little money in the bank to make a lifestyle change though like move to a farm, stay at home parent, work part time, change jobs, open their own business, work remotely. So sometimes I wonder if the RE part is a bit of a misnomer in a lot of cases, but I am sure there are some that actually are retired at 30. Humans I think are meant to do something meaningful though, so I think a lot of people would still chose to work at 30, but have more attractive work options with some cash in the bank.

lolalolalola, Is it medium ish (not easy, not terribly difficult) to switch to public schools? Or have you started down a path....?

Thank you.

I agree with your thoughts on the RE part and think think most of the early retirees probably do actually work in some manner but the FI part gives them the freedom to choose what and how much work they do.

My youngest is in a special program and was lost in public schools. My oldest joined her after a couple years and has said she can’t imagine going back to public school so I think that ship has sailed. We also moved a couple years ago to be closer to the kids school so they can walk. So, the house and school, which are by far our biggest expenses are not really changeable. Once the kids are done school (6.5 years) we could (and hopefully, will) downsize.

[origami]

I've never heard of the FIRE movement until this thread but I'm watching the video right now. I currently live with extended family and I loathe it so much. We save a lot of money (though not as much as I thought we would), so I feel validated listening to these people be stressed out about it too.

ETA: We are moving soon b/c as much as we'd love to retire early, staying where we are requires sacrificing our sanity so we no longer thing it's worth it.

[imojoebunny]

I am not sure how realistic it is to simply retire. I technically did at 34, if you frame it the way some people in this "movement" do, where they stay home, but their spouse works, and they make some income from investments, but that isn't really retiring to me. You have someone else paying health insurance, someone else bringing in income. Sure, I have some income from investment properties and other investments, but that is not our day to day spending, better than some jobs, but it is more my future 401K.

I do know people who in their 30's had enough real estate, especially commercial property to both not work day to day. They still look for opportunities and manage what they have. It isn't like they are not working, they are just working for themselves. My dad retired at 46, but he still did things, served on the board of businesses, managed investments for others, consulted, ect. It was far from full time, but he could get health insurance through some of his gigs for many years, and made enough to not have to dive into his savings. He and my mom are pretty furgal, though they have expensive housing, though no loans, the taxes are as much as our mortgage payment. Property tax and health insurance are far and away their biggest expenses. The reason they have been successful, is that my dad has been a very astute and lucky investor. Without that, they would be living in my basement.

The Opt Out Life Podcast has a lot of good stories, if you are really interested in escaping the daily grind, but don't confuse "early retirement" with doing nothing.

[farfalla2011]

I watched about half of this. I think calling what they are pursuing retirement is misleading. It's more about choosing what your priorities are in life, not letting lifestyle creep get in your way and saving appropriately.

That being said, I could never move in with parents to try to make FIRE happen. One, I value my sanity and two, I know my mom would not let me live rent free, so it would defeat the purpose.

While I don't think they are talking retirement in the traditional sense, creating your world where you are living far enough below your means in order to save so you can change jobs or careers on a whim would be amazing and something I'm hoping to achieve in some form or fashion in the next decade if not sooner.

[ribollita]

Dec 6, 2019 14:45:25 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

Dec 6, 2019 9:55:00 GMT -5 farmvillelover said:

I did! No spoilers. I thought it was interesting and worth the watch to see how some people are really willing to change their entire lifestyle to pursue financial independence/early retirement. I don’t seek the RE part of FIRE so I couldn’t relate a ton but I think it was still worth watching.

Thanks - I watched it too. I have no desire to FIRE but we are only saving 20% and could be saving a LOT more. We have definitely had lifestyle creep and I don’t know how to stop it. I know we have lots of places to cut spending, like our cleaners, convenience food and big travel budget. But some decisions are not easy to undo- like we bought a million dollar home and spend $30k/year on private school.

Saving 20% is a lot!

I have no desire to RE because I LOVE my job and find it extremely fulfilling. I’d rather work this job, spend a lot of money on travel and experiences while working and also saving a good chunk for the future but not to the extent to retire at 50 or earlier.

That said I still want to watch the documentary.

[hamster]

If life goes according to plan, we hope to retire at 55. It's actually still possible despite adding kids to the mix. Our 15 year mortgage is the biggest factor. I am a SAHM and dont foresee really going back to work, at least not full time.

[winecat]

I have a mental block about "retiring" because of health insurance. I spent 10+ years uninsured before the ACA was passed. I was young and dumb. If it goes away, who knows if I'll be eligible to purchase it. (Due to pre-existing conditions, I couldn't buy it before the ACA.) Do these FIRE people not worry about it? Like the one guy who said that FI gives you the ability to say "Take this job and shove it" if your employer denies a vacation. You can do that now if you're FI and you can buy your own health insurance. The ACA gets repealed and it doesn't matter if you're FI if you don't have healthcare and can't afford to be without it. I think about this now because if the ACA gets repealed, not having employer provided health insurance might be an insurmountable problem with continuing in my business.

[steamboat185]

I finally watched this and found the couple to be sort of dumb. I’m not sure why they chose to move to Bend or why they “had” too. Seems like a lot of the changes they made- lowering groceries, cheaper car, identifying what makes you happy, could have been completely without moving to random spots for a few months, but then they wouldn’t have had a movie. I do think pointing out how the treat yo self mentality has of gone way off the rails is valid. We are trying to FIRE early and should hit that goal before 45, which isn’t as early as some of the people in the documentary, but we live on more than 29k a year too.

[MrsE]

I watched the video, thanks for sharing the link. I was interested in FIRE when I was a bit younger but ultimately we decided we’d rather work a little longer to live in a nicer area that is super walkable (even if much more expensive than our last home). I often wonder if it was the right move, but then I remember I only drive on the weekends and it’s usually always in our city. I am fortunate I can walk DD to daycare and back home every day and have a very flexible work/life balance with telecommuting options, which is wonderful since DH has a commute and travels for work a ton. The grass is always greener, right?

[sillygoosegirl]

I enjoyed seeing that perspective.

I think our consumption-based culture, and endless corporate advertising we are all constantly exposed to, really pushes us not to think critically about our purchases and consider other ways of doing things.

It also made me realize how much my motivations are different than theirs. I am interested in retiring early, and at various times for various reasons, financial independence has been something I've wanted really badly, BUT bigger factors for me have been the environment, a desire to "present" as regular people/median income, and a drive to do things for myself.

I don't bike to the grocery store to save $1 in gas and maintenance and depreciation on my car. I bike to the grocery store to emit less carbon and keep my body and mind healthy and strong, although of course the savings does also add up. Since it was mentioned in both the film and this thread, and I really think it's worth stating again, driving is an expense I think a lot of us don't really understand as fully as we should. Spending more on a home that allows you to drive less doesn't necessarily set the bottom line back as far as you think. Most of my friends, further out in the suburbs than I am, are traveling 5x farther than I do for groceries, so you kinda could say I am saving $5/trip for groceries (anyway, it's costing them that). Bicycling to work nominally saves us $200/month each, just in milage, and probably that much again in parking. The house that makes this possible wasn't cheap, but if we'd bought a cheaper house further out, that savings in home cost would have been washed away in higher car expenses. But because of the way that car payments or cash down are paid up front (and the fact that the car will last longer if you drive it less is so abstract), and maintenance is deferred, it doesn't FEEL like you have to put 2 quarters into your car every time you drive a mile, even though really, you do.

All that said, I think it bares repeating that most of the people featured were making pretty good money. Median household income in the USA is still only around $50K/year. This FIRE thing is the sort of goal that is realistic for young professional couples with two parties each making $50-$100K, especially with jobs that let them move anywhere, and it's what they want to do. Even the teacher couple they interviewed were making that much with their main jobs, which weren't even full time, and no kids yet, leaving them more time than most for side hustles (they specifically said the salaries they mentioned didn't include after school tutoring and summer classes). In comparison, the federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour... you could work 2 full time jobs at that wage and still only bring in $30K. To say this is inclusive of everyone is disingenuous. There's a lot of people who can't get ahead or save because they can't find a way to earn a living wage.

[sillygoosegirl]

I forgot to say, I really wish they'd talked about health insurance. We are nominally getting close to hitting our FIRE goal number, excluding health insurance. But I have a chronic condition now. And with the damage the Republicans have done to Obamacare, and the lawsuits still working their way through the courts, let's just say that even if we set a higher FIRE number that included health insurance premiums and OOP maximum payments x25 per the formula (or adjusted upwards for what premiums will be when I'm old), I still don't know that I'll truly feel independent, because it remains to be seen what will happen with the preexisting condition clause. Continuing viability and affordability of the exchanges is simply not certain yet. I expect a lot of those early retirees are young and healthy enough that they aren't thinking about this yet, but few will manage to stay that way until Medicaid age... prioritizing a healthy lifestyle improves the odds, but I'm here to tell you it's no guarentee you don't come down with some BS rare and expensive chronic condition that almost nobody has ever heard of...

[farmvillelover]

Dec 12, 2019 22:36:54 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

I forgot to say, I really wish they'd talked about health insurance. *

This seems to be a real concern in the FIRE community.  About 2 years ago when my H and 2 kids were on a private plan together, it was literally almost $1400 a month. That is before any copays or deductibles, which of course there were. That would be the biggest variable for me if I were planning to RE (which I don't plan on actually).

And this is also why I took out a disability policy. If my H stops working about age 47/48 and I continue to work and carry our health insurance (and 2 kids), even if we are FI the cost of healthcare if I stopped working due to a disability would be insane. I took out the policy with the intention that it's insurance to cover healthcare costs in the event something happens to me.