Homeowners ins and slow leak

[dach0507]

Anyone have any success getting homeowners insurance to cover extensive damage from a slow leak *poof*

[isabel]

No advice. Those exclusions are such bullshit. I’m sorry.

[twilightmv]

Dec 6, 2019 9:37:15 GMT -5 dach0507 said:

Anyone have any success getting homeowners insurance to cover extensive damage from a slow leak caused by someone else (a subcontractor)? The leak lasted about 3 months before the damage became visible to us. At the point the water damage was extensive and we also had a ton of mold. Our homeowners ins has denied due to the seepage/slow leak exclusion. I do understand the denial, just wondering if theres some loophole we could go through given the specific circumstances.

Was it hidden? What was leaking?

[madringal]

Oh man, I am sorry.

We had a slow leak coming from from the water line on our fridge. No idea how long it had been leaking (the fridge was 10 years old) but we came home after being away from a long weekend and our wood floors in our kitchen were completely warped. Like I tripped over them they were so bad. And then the leak went down to the ceiling in the basement and dripped all over a brand new wooden toy box from Land of Nod and warped the side of that too. And our insurance (Allstate) covered it all. 20k+ in repairs (we ended up getting all new wood floors for the main level!),

[dach0507]

Dec 6, 2019 9:44:18 GMT -5 twilightmv said:

Dec 6, 2019 9:37:15 GMT -5 dach0507 said:

Anyone have any success getting homeowners insurance to cover extensive damage from a slow leak caused by someone else (a subcontractor)? The leak lasted about 3 months before the damage became visible to us. At the point the water damage was extensive and we also had a ton of mold. Our homeowners ins has denied due to the seepage/slow leak exclusion. I do understand the denial, just wondering if theres some loophole we could go through given the specific circumstances.

Was it hidden? What was leaking?

*poof*

[madringal]

dach0507,

Wow, I can't believe that. It is basically exactly what happened to us, but ours was a fridge instead. Our insurance company did tell us that if we could provide proof of who installed the waterline we could get our 1K deductible back - but we weren't the original owners of the house so we had no idea who installed it. But I can't believe you are getting such a run around. Can I ask who your insurance company is?

[isabel]

Honestly, for as much money as it sounds like this is going to cost, I would consult an attorney. I would think a good one would be able to help you understand the right way to navigate this and whether or not you have enough of a case to sue the subcontractor.

eta: Have you explained to your insurance company that what you're looking for is their assistance in going after the subcontractor? I guess if they aren't willing to pay the claim then maybe it doesn't matter, but I feel like there's a worthwhile distinction there.

[Deleted]

That sucks. I always though that the leakage exclusion didn't apply if you were unaware of the leak. That's really crappy of them deny. I would for sure appeal both your Home Owners as well as the contractors insurer.

[twilightmv]

Should be covered if it was hidden and you have an HO3. The exclusion reads:
Mold, fungus, or wet rot. However, we do insure for loss caused by mold, fungus, or wet rot that is hidden within the walls or ceilings or beneath the floors or above the ceilings of a structure if such loss results from the accidental discharge of water or steam from within ....(a) a household appliance on the residence premises

[twilightmv]

Of course you will have to check your contract. Not all HO insurers use the same form. But if it’s an HO3 that’s usually the language you will find.

[wildrice]

Just to be clear, does your homeowners have this exclusion as well?

I am not familiar with homeowners, but I assume it works similar to car insurance in that your own policy should do what they need to to make you whole in the short term, and then they can work through the legal stuff to fight to get their money back from the other person's insurance.

Excluding that, I'd contact a lawyer. 3 months isn't very long for a slow leak to take to appear.

[dach0507]

*poof*

[isabel]

dach0507, what does your attorney say? Do they think this can be overcome or not?

[icedcoffee]

I'm sorry dach0507. That sounds like a nightmare. I wish I had some good advice.

[egishere]

We had a slow leak caused after we had a new toilet installed by a Lowe's subcontractor. They covered all the repairs/ damages

[downtoearth]

That sucks. My friends had this and got theirs covered - an entire kitchen remodel since the floors were all ruined from a slow leak and all lower cabinets repaired or replaced. I will have to ask them how they got around that clause.

[carmenere]

Dec 6, 2019 10:21:08 GMT -5 isabel said:

eta: Have you explained to your insurance company that what you're looking for is their assistance in going after the subcontractor? I guess if they aren't willing to pay the claim then maybe it doesn't matter, but I feel like there's a worthwhile distinction there.

Unlikely that the insurance company would help with that unless it's for subrogation of a claim they paid. 

OP, that really sucks, and you're right about what they're doing. I'm sorry you're dealing with this and hope you get some compensation.

[twilightmv]

I know it’s too late to say your insurance sucks, but whoever sold you that should be ashamed of themselves.

[isabel]

Aaaand, we have LM with the same exclusion and I just asked DH to shop homeowner's insurance.

[madringal]

Dec 6, 2019 11:54:21 GMT -5 isabel said:

Aaaand, we have LM with the same exclusion and I just asked DH to shop homeowner's insurance.

I just got a quote from them this week - I need to go see if that exclusion is in it!

[isabel]

Dec 6, 2019 10:41:51 GMT -5 twilightmv said:

Should be covered if it was hidden and you have an HO3. The exclusion reads:
Mold, fungus, or wet rot. However, we do insure for loss caused by mold, fungus, or wet rot that is hidden within the walls or ceilings or beneath the floors or above the ceilings of a structure if such loss results from the accidental discharge of water or steam from within ....(a) a household appliance on the residence premises

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand what HO3 means, even after Googling.

We have the same exclusion in our Liberty Mutual policy. Are there two common ways over covering this? i.e. Some cover with the exclusion you posted, and some do not cover the the exclusion that OP posted? What's the best way to make sure your policy includes this coverage?

[dach0507]

Dec 6, 2019 11:19:36 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

That sucks. My friends had this and got theirs covered - an entire kitchen remodel since the floors were all ruined from a slow leak and all lower cabinets repaired or replaced. I will have to ask them how they got around that clause.

downtoearth, would love to know how they were able to do it!

[twilightmv]

Dec 6, 2019 12:11:33 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 6, 2019 10:41:51 GMT -5 twilightmv said:

Should be covered if it was hidden and you have an HO3. The exclusion reads:
Mold, fungus, or wet rot. However, we do insure for loss caused by mold, fungus, or wet rot that is hidden within the walls or ceilings or beneath the floors or above the ceilings of a structure if such loss results from the accidental discharge of water or steam from within ....(a) a household appliance on the residence premises

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand what HO3 means, even after Googling.

We have the same exclusion in our Liberty Mutual policy. Are there two common ways over covering this? i.e. Some cover with the exclusion you posted, and some do not cover the the exclusion that OP posted? What's the best way to make sure your policy includes this coverage?

Happy to answer questions. There are certain standard industry forms/contracts that are broadly used in the insurance marketplace. These forms are already approved by the state in question so an insurance company can easily file it and use it. Insurance companies may also write their own contracts, and then file them for use in states. An insurance carrier may use these standard forms, or use their own forms, or a combination of both.

HO3 is the most common homeowner insurance contract (for the US). It’s not the best contract, but it’s the most common and typically also the baseline. I’m shocked a carrier sold a homeowner policy with less coverage than an HO3 for a primarily occupied primary residence. If you’re shopping, I would recommend you look for an HO5 or equivalent. The difference being that HO3 will provide coverage for “named perils” (it covers stuff listed here) and HO5 covers ALL perils, meaning it will cover your loss unless it’s specifically excluded.

[liverandonions]

Dec 6, 2019 12:11:33 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 6, 2019 10:41:51 GMT -5 twilightmv said:

Should be covered if it was hidden and you have an HO3. The exclusion reads:
Mold, fungus, or wet rot. However, we do insure for loss caused by mold, fungus, or wet rot that is hidden within the walls or ceilings or beneath the floors or above the ceilings of a structure if such loss results from the accidental discharge of water or steam from within ....(a) a household appliance on the residence premises

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand what HO3 means, even after Googling.

We have the same exclusion in our Liberty Mutual policy. Are there two common ways over covering this? i.e. Some cover with the exclusion you posted, and some do not cover the the exclusion that OP posted? What's the best way to make sure your policy includes this coverage?

HO3 is the Homeowners form. it's a broad form that covers named perils. An HO5 is a "open" perils policy that covers anything that isn't excluded. Condos are written an HO6 usually. 

[isabel]

Dec 6, 2019 12:19:16 GMT -5 twilightmv said:

Dec 6, 2019 12:11:33 GMT -5 isabel said:

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand what HO3 means, even after Googling.

We have the same exclusion in our Liberty Mutual policy. Are there two common ways over covering this? i.e. Some cover with the exclusion you posted, and some do not cover the the exclusion that OP posted? What's the best way to make sure your policy includes this coverage?

Happy to answer questions. There are certain standard industry forms/contracts that are broadly used in the insurance marketplace. These forms are already approved by the state in question so an insurance company can easily file it and use it. Insurance companies may also write their own contracts, and then file them for use in states. An insurance carrier may use these standard forms, or use their own forms, or a combination of both.

HO3 is the most common homeowner insurance contract (for the US). It’s not the best contract, but it’s the most common and typically also the baseline. I’m shocked a carrier sold a homeowner policy with less coverage than an HO3 for a primarily occupied primary residence. If you’re shopping, I would recommend you look for an HO5 or equivalent. The difference being that HO3 will provide coverage for “named perils” (it covers stuff listed here) and HO5 covers ALL perils, meaning it will cover your loss unless it’s specifically excluded.

So it sounds to me like what I have is an HO3 policy with specific exclusions. What you're saying is that generally, HO3 policies covers the issues listed in this post, but my specific policy (and OPs) includes exclusions that make it a less comprehensive policy than a standard HO3. Is that an accurate conclusion?

Do you know if there are specific insurance companies that are known for providing more comprehensive coverage? In this case, it seems the language regarding hidden leaks/seepage is standard for Liberty Mutual.

[isabel]

Dec 6, 2019 12:21:13 GMT -5 liverandonions said:

Dec 6, 2019 12:11:33 GMT -5 isabel said:

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand what HO3 means, even after Googling.

We have the same exclusion in our Liberty Mutual policy. Are there two common ways over covering this? i.e. Some cover with the exclusion you posted, and some do not cover the the exclusion that OP posted? What's the best way to make sure your policy includes this coverage?

HO3 is the Homeowners form. it's a broad form that covers named perils. An HO5 is a "open" perils policy that covers anything that isn't excluded. Condos are written an HO6 usually. 

This makes me interpret it differently.

So if I have an HO3, I have to look at *everything* named in the policy to determine whether or not I am missing coverage of something specific. With an HO5 policy, I only need to look at the items specifically excluded because, as a baseline, everything is included in the policy.

[twilightmv]

Dec 6, 2019 12:24:12 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 6, 2019 12:19:16 GMT -5 twilightmv said:

Happy to answer questions. There are certain standard industry forms/contracts that are broadly used in the insurance marketplace. These forms are already approved by the state in question so an insurance company can easily file it and use it. Insurance companies may also write their own contracts, and then file them for use in states. An insurance carrier may use these standard forms, or use their own forms, or a combination of both.

HO3 is the most common homeowner insurance contract (for the US). It’s not the best contract, but it’s the most common and typically also the baseline. I’m shocked a carrier sold a homeowner policy with less coverage than an HO3 for a primarily occupied primary residence. If you’re shopping, I would recommend you look for an HO5 or equivalent. The difference being that HO3 will provide coverage for “named perils” (it covers stuff listed here) and HO5 covers ALL perils, meaning it will cover your loss unless it’s specifically excluded.

So it sounds to me like what I have is an HO3 policy with specific exclusions. What you're saying is that generally, HO3 policies covers the issues listed in this post, but my specific policy (and OPs) includes exclusions that make it a less comprehensive policy than a standard HO3. Is that an accurate conclusion?

Do you know if there are specific insurance companies that are known for providing more comprehensive coverage? In this case, it seems the language regarding hidden leaks/seepage is standard for Liberty Mutual.

It sounds like LM wrote their own form and isn’t using HO3. I recommend working with an independent agent. I always do, haha. They can discuss your insurance needs specifically and have access to a lot of carriers. I work for a carrier that really focuses on coverage and would recommend all day, but I think it’s better to work with an agent to find what you need. Trusted choice is a website where you can find a local independent agents.

Other cool coverages I always recommend are guaranteed replacement cost on both structure and contents).
And an umbrella.

[msmerymac]

I have the same insurance and they subrogated a claim that was high 5 figures related to fire damage caused by a contractor, so I'm really surprised.

I was going to say go with a public adjuster, but if you already have an attorney involved I don't think that will get you anywhere.

[dach0507]

*poof*

[isabel]

dach0507, wow. That's brazen. I'm just so sorry. I can't even imagine how stressful this has been.