We are looking at two options for our daughter. Montessori or language immersion. We have toured both and like both. Montessori starts at K3 while language immersion doesn’t start until K4. So right now our plan is to start at Montessori for K3 and if we think it’s not a good fit, we can do language for K4. But this feels like a really hard decision! Other than not having the language immersion experience, are there any big cons to Montessori?
(Also, how is my BABY potentially starting school in August?!)
Post by downtoearth on Jan 7, 2020 13:35:38 GMT -5
A baby in K in August? That does seem fast.
I have 3 kiddos who have each done Montessori for preschool and early school, but not past K... I have a lot of friends who love their Montessori into middle school. Here's my take. I like it... it's very structured. It doesn't seem like it when you first enter a room, but it takes a pretty self-motivated kid to do well there and to work with the teachers to decide their progression rate. I think all my boys did well with it for preschool, preK and K. They transitioned well into a more traditional public school after really well too. But I also think a lot of the Montessori group work and individual work has ended up in our one elementary school even if they aren't Montessori. I will say that Montessori works on a 3-year rotation (usually something like preK-K or 1st, 2nd-4th, 5th-7th, etc.), so the first year is sometimes a transition year, but the kids excel in years 2 and 3. It's great to see them go from observers in the first year to engaged learners in year two and then to leaders and motivators in year three. So maybe one year isn't enough to see that progression... I'm not sure. I will say that we've been at 3 different Montessori schools and I really disliked the leadership at our public charter school in CO - the teachers were great, but the admin was a problem and it was run by a parent board, not a true school board. I did not see the weird politics and dynamics in the private Montessori or our other public school Montessori (run as a magnet public school with great admin and a the same school board as all the other schools).
I think it's harder to start language immersion later than Montessori. But I hope others can speak to that.
I would totally do language immersion. Do you have an elementary with a dual language program? How will you support their language acquasition? We love our dual language program and wish that we had started earlier with them in prek.
Post by goldengirlz on Jan 7, 2020 13:49:02 GMT -5
Have you toured the schools?
We looked at a Montessori program but it was not for us. A big part of that was that we didn’t get a good feeling at all from the director when we visited. We also felt like DD needed more structure (and again part of that may have been the specific program.)
Anyway, I’m sure you’ll get good advice on the relative merits of each but I’ve found that my in-person due diligence was the best way to make a decision for DD’s education.
We liked it at the time, but when it came to K and even into 1st grade we realized it was a terrible fit for DD2. She definitely needed more traditional learning and it wasn’t the best table to build her foundation on.
She’s smart, but not self motivated so she needs the extra push/guidance to get her confidence up.
We liked it at the time, but when it came to K and even into 1st grade we realized it was a terrible fit for DD2. She definitely needed more traditional learning and it wasn’t the best table to build her foundation on.
She’s smart, but not self motivated so she needs the extra push/guidance to get her confidence up.
Gah. This is such a hard thing to figure out. They only let you enter Montessori at K3 and K4 here. Because of her late August birthday and the school’s early start, she’ll be a week away from turning 3 at the start of the year. She seems pretty self-motivated to me now, but she’ a not even 2.5 and the enrollment lottery starts at the end of the month.
We did not tour, but our private school Montessori has bad reviews. I think there were problems with the administration/ toxic culture, and when kids transferred they were not at the right grade level. This is more school by school quality issue thought than all Montessori.
If you have no other options for the 3 year old level, then I would definitely do that. It sounds like it is part of the public school district? I would definitely do something in the 3 year old range rather than just totally waiting until age 4. But I would totally jump on the language immersion. That would be my dream school.
We liked it at the time, but when it came to K and even into 1st grade we realized it was a terrible fit for DD2. She definitely needed more traditional learning and it wasn’t the best table to build her foundation on.
She’s smart, but not self motivated so she needs the extra push/guidance to get her confidence up.
Gah. This is such a hard thing to figure out. They only let you enter Montessori at K3 and K4 here. Because of her late August birthday and the school’s early start, she’ll be a week away from turning 3 at the start of the year. She seems pretty self-motivated to me now, but she’ a not even 2.5 and the enrollment lottery starts at the end of the month.
So true - mine are all fall birthdays and started schools a couple weeks before they turned the same age as others. I think it's different for girls to be the youngest, but I don't know. We put one in school early and kept one out, and it was great for both kids. The other misses the cutoff by a month (Oct) so that was not a thing we could decide on. As far as motivation. Our middle was so unmotivated at first and spent a lot of his K3 year wiggling around, not focusing, and drawing with pastels. But by the next year, I was about ready to take him out of Montessori and then after about a month back at 4 years old he soared into being a super worker (and still took time to draw with pastels). I would have never guessed. It's so hard to decide so early out.
If you have no other options for the 3 year old level, then I would definitely do that. It sounds like it is part of the public school district? I would definitely do something in the 3 year old range rather than just totally waiting until age 4. But I would totally jump on the language immersion. That would be my dream school.
This is all public. If we don’t do Montessori K3, she stays at daycare. I’m not worried about her staying at daycare another year - it’s NAEYC accredited and has a great curriculum - although it would be nice to have that cash money.
Gah. This is such a hard thing to figure out. They only let you enter Montessori at K3 and K4 here. Because of her late August birthday and the school’s early start, she’ll be a week away from turning 3 at the start of the year. She seems pretty self-motivated to me now, but she’ a not even 2.5 and the enrollment lottery starts at the end of the month.
So true - mine are all fall birthdays and started schools a couple weeks before they turned the same age as others. I think it's different for girls to be the youngest, but I don't know. We put one in school early and kept one out, and it was great for both kids. The other misses the cutoff by a month (Oct) so that was not a thing we could decide on. As far as motivation. Our middle was so unmotivated at first and spent a lot of his K3 year wiggling around, not focusing, and drawing with pastels. But by the next year, I was about ready to take him out of Montessori and then after about a month back at 4 years old he soared into being a super worker (and still took time to draw with pastels). I would have never guessed. It's so hard to decide so early out.
I’m not really worried about her being the youngest (although seeing all the kids on tours has really hit home how teeny she is). It’s more that it feels like with the enrollment lottery starting 7 months before she even turns 3, it’s hard to get a sense of whether she’ll be adequately “self-motivated” at age 6. She seems self-motivated now, but who knows!
The problem is there’s no national accreditation or standards for “Montessori.” Some Montessoris are pretty structured, some offer unlimited play, some are entirely self-directed, some the teacher takes the lead more often. So I can tell you our experience was great (it was) but that doesn’t tell you anything about your school.
Is the choice language immersion or Montessori for K-3, or current daycare vs Montessori? I’d do language as early as possible, but between daycare and a Montessori you feel good about, I’d go with Montessori.
I loved it for my kid, he was in it 12mos-preK. He is essentially purpose built for Montessori-style learning. He's enormously self-motivated, likes helping, is obsessed with organization, etc.
He's now in a traditional classroom for K (that's what is available for public school). It's been a HARD transition. I love him. He is sweet. He is also stubborn as hell, wants to be the boss of every group always, and is the OG honeybadger. Traits I knew existed but weren't really an issue in Montessori so were not really addressed as much.
We're working through it and he was going to hit the "you have to understand the fact that we're all just trying to live in a society here so maybe take it down a notch" wall at some point even if we kept him in Montessori forever, but be aware.
I knew when he was 2 that this would be a hard transition for him, so I was prepared-ish. And I'd do it all over again even with this transition. I mean, kid folds and puts away his laundry when I ask ONCE because folding and putting things away are engrained in him. But, think it through wrt your kid. If you have a honeybadger like me, gird your loins.
The problem is there’s no national accreditation or standards for “Montessori.” Some Montessoris are pretty structured, some offer unlimited play, some are entirely self-directed, some the teacher takes the lead more often. So I can tell you our experience was great (it was) but that doesn’t tell you anything about your school.
Is the choice language immersion or Montessori for K-3, or current daycare vs Montessori? I’d do language as early as possible, but between daycare and a Montessori you feel good about, I’d go with Montessori.
Yes, you have that right. The choice for this coming school year is FT daycare or half-day public Montessori, followed by public camp (after care) or day are (if we don’t get a camp slot).
Then for K4, we can continue with Montessori or switch to language immersion. You can enter Montessori through K4 but language immersion through 1st grade. The Montessori were looking at has the option of staying at the same school from K3 through 12 (or you can transfer for high school).
Have I mentioned that school choice is very confusing and overwhelming?
cville, that is really good to know. I’m not sure if quite classify her as a honeybadger, but she def can be stubborn. She creates all kinds of rules for things. She no longer wears PJs to bed. She picks out her clothes each night but GOD FORBID we try to help her put them on in the wrong order JESUS CHRIST don’t we know that it goes short, pants, and socks, and that she can only bring us socks ONE AT A TIME and could we stop with these requests for both socks.
Post by georgeglass on Jan 7, 2020 15:01:02 GMT -5
Montessori can be great - or not, as others have said. I am wary of it for older grades, only because here at my school, kids coming from higher level Montessori have not acclimated well to math classes and other more structured classes (often testing grades behind), and it's not something you necessarily notice until you have a change of environment (e.g., changing schools).
cville, that is really good to know. I’m not sure if quite classify her as a honeybadger, but she def can be stubborn. She creates all kinds of rules for things. She no longer wears PJs to bed. She picks out her clothes each night but GOD FORBID we try to help her put them on in the wrong order JESUS CHRIST don’t we know that it goes short, pants, and socks, and that she can only bring us socks ONE AT A TIME and could we stop with these requests for both socks.
Hmmm. You may be in trouble, but hopefully for you she is just in a stage. My regular pain in the butt kid in preK went on skirt strike and just refused to put them on...for 3 years. In preK, my honeybadger cut up certain of his socks to teach them a lesson because they didn't go on his feet as easily as he preferred. While giving them an angry lecture (it's how I found out he was doing it). So, for me it was an observable difference in degree. 😆
cville, that is really good to know. I’m not sure if quite classify her as a honeybadger, but she def can be stubborn. She creates all kinds of rules for things. She no longer wears PJs to bed. She picks out her clothes each night but GOD FORBID we try to help her put them on in the wrong order JESUS CHRIST don’t we know that it goes short, pants, and socks, and that she can only bring us socks ONE AT A TIME and could we stop with these requests for both socks.
Hmmm. You may be in trouble, but hopefully for you she is just in a stage. My regular pain in the butt kid in preK went on skirt strike and just refused to put them on...for 3 years. In preK, my honeybadger cut up certain of his socks to teach them a lesson because they didn't go on his feet as easily as he preferred. While giving them an angry lecture (it's how I found out he was doing it). So, for me it was an observable difference in degree. 😆
Ok, that would be infuriating at the time, but it’s fucking funny.
She will “cook” for us in her kitchen and then serve us and then say, “No no wait. You have to wait!” And we have to await instructions on HOW we “eat” our food.
Montessori can be great - or not, as others have said. I am wary of it for older grades, only because here at my school, kids coming from higher level Montessori have not acclimated well to math classes and other more structured classes (often testing grades behind), and it's not something you necessarily notice until you have a change of environment (e.g., changing schools).
Yes, I will say that this is a reason we made the jump to a more traditional school in K. Also, because public school is free and doesn't have a Montessori option.
My kid was an early reader and, thanks to Montessori and the super cool stuff they do with understanding numbers on so many different levels, could do low order multiplication IN HIS HEAD before he started K. But he had decided he was done with Montessori math so, had he not moved to a more traditional school, I'm not sure if he'd ever have advanced beyond that because he would have continued to opt out. Foreverrrr.
Montessori can be great - or not, as others have said. I am wary of it for older grades, only because here at my school, kids coming from higher level Montessori have not acclimated well to math classes and other more structured classes (often testing grades behind), and it's not something you necessarily notice until you have a change of environment (e.g., changing schools).
Yes, I will say that this is a reason we made the jump to a more traditional school in K. Also, because public school is free and doesn't have a Montessori option.
My kid was an early reader and, thanks to Montessori and the super cool stuff they do with understanding numbers on so many different levels, could do low order multiplication IN HIS HEAD before he started K. But he had decided he was done with Montessori math so, had he not moved to a more traditional school, I'm not sure if he'd ever have advanced beyond that because he would have continued to opt out. Foreverrrr.
We were told on our tour that they can’t opt out entirely. Like they’ll have to complete a geography work, a math work, and a science work. And they can choose which one, but you can’t do all geography all day and never math.
Yes, I will say that this is a reason we made the jump to a more traditional school in K. Also, because public school is free and doesn't have a Montessori option.
My kid was an early reader and, thanks to Montessori and the super cool stuff they do with understanding numbers on so many different levels, could do low order multiplication IN HIS HEAD before he started K. But he had decided he was done with Montessori math so, had he not moved to a more traditional school, I'm not sure if he'd ever have advanced beyond that because he would have continued to opt out. Foreverrrr.
We were told on our tour that they can’t opt out entirely. Like they’ll have to complete a geography work, a math work, and a science work. And they can choose which one, but you can’t do all geography all day and never math.
We liked it at the time, but when it came to K and even into 1st grade we realized it was a terrible fit for DD2. She definitely needed more traditional learning and it wasn’t the best table to build her foundation on.
She’s smart, but not self motivated so she needs the extra push/guidance to get her confidence up.
This is my kid exactly. I can’t remember if we saw these traits at 2 but she’s the classic example of steering away from things that she finds “too hard” and pursuing only what comes naturally to her. I don’t know if Montessori corrects for that at all, but if she were entirely self-directed, she would never learn math lol. She’s one of those kids who needed/needs to learn “how to fail” and not get so frustrated when she doesn’t have an immediate aptitude for a new subject.
So we didn't have the Montessori option in public, but I did end up moving my second child from the daycare model with a curriculum ($$$$$) to the pre-school model($$$) actually located at the public school but not really part of it. The money we saved was well worth the switch.
It was a tough transition that took about 6 weeks. We had been at daycare for 7 years due to my older child. The programs were essentially the same curriculum wise. The pre-school was a bit more older ladies who were more professional but perhaps slightly less enthusiastic about some things like going outside in the cold. But I had some issues with the daycare as well. Ultimately DD did fine in the preschool program, and being at the public school helped transition her to K better.
The money we saved really helped our family to move from a spending everything on mortgage and daycare, to being able to have other priorities, and it was really nice after 7 years. So I vote Montessori both because of public school and the savings, and if it doesn't work there is always the option to do the language immersion in 4K. Try to make sure you get into the camp option as well because you won't save much if you do half day at daycare and half at public school. I found this out through experience because we have half day K, and I was 1 hour too long to get the half day prices at daycare (5 hours).
Is camp also through the public school? If it's not a ton of money, go ahead and register for those options when they open up so you have a choice. Our registration is only $60.
Caveat- aftercare in general is not as good as an actual program. There are good ones and there are bad ones, and ours has gone through phases of good and bad with it currently being way better than past years. If it is public I expect it to be better than private ones. Both of ours have been private.
Eventually you have to switch from the daycare model to an aftercare/ camp model. It really just depends if that is at 3, 4, 5 or even later. There are some 12 year olds at the daycare but very few like maybe 2, so most people switch at some point in time.
Other things to consider are drop off and pick up logistics. We stayed with the daycare longer because I had 2 there, and didn't want to do 2 drop offs and pick ups. Public school was closer to my house so I actually saved money and time because it was about 7 minutes closer one way, so I gained about 15 minutes. Also there is a time when if you do have bussing, and if they do bus preschoolers (ours doesn't) that comes into play and makes life easier as well. Special needs issues are also addressed better in a public school setting, typically not always, things like speech etc can be easier since they are on site with a speech teacher.
In hindsight due to DS's speech issues and the money/ time I wish I had moved him to the public school when he was 4 instead of when he was 6 for K. Just know that either choice is a good one, and it will all work out no matter which one you choose. It didn't hurt him at all to stay at the daycare, and it probably made our lives easier. I just didn't know to do certain things or time it well with registration. Now is a good time to think about it- I didn't think about it until June.
You've gotten good advice re: Montessori. Both my kids are in it and doing quite well. Like yours, they don't let them opt out of things entirely, so they are encouraged to do work that they might not necessarily choose on their own. DS1 will transition just fine in terms of the change in structure. I'm not concerned about him at all. But he's also a pretty compliant kid who likes to be in charge, so he does well in Montessori with choosing his work and doing things on his terms. I think he'll readily acquiesce to his teacher though once he moves to traditional public kindergarten in August.
DS2 is going to be more like cville's son with his transition. He does what he wants to do and has no problem telling you how things should be done. I think that one is going to be rough. But, again, his personality is such that Montessori is a good fit.
There's a child in DS1's Primary room who clearly is NOT a good fit for Montessori. He's not a focused kid and has a really hard time staying on task. He's constantly being redirected to focus on his work instead of bugging other kids or jumping in on what they're doing. Similarly, DS1 had a friend whose mom took her out of our school and moved her to a much more traditional pre-k program.They have a set curriculum, they study specific things on specific days. The example she gave me was that they are going through the alphabet one letter at a time, so all the kids are at the exact same point. She likes it and feels like her daughter is learning much faster there. Apparently when she left our school, her 4 year old couldn't recognize any letters. For contrast, DS1 (4yo, starts K this fall) is sounding out letters and letter combinations and can, in some cases, tell you what a word is by doing that. He can identify all of his letters. A lot of his classmates who moved to K last year were reading by the time they started and it seems like he may as well. So I've seen it go both ways. Montessori is great for self-motivated kids who are either eager to please or have strong feelings about what and how to do something. Those kids can learn at their own pace and make advancements faster than kids might in traditional school settings. But for kids who are less motivated or just struggle with focusing on a specific topic, traditional school can be a much better fit.
On sort of a side note, of all the schools we visited, the Montessori school, all the classrooms, felt so orderly to me. The kids know the routine, they know how to choose their work and put it away and it just felt calm. It still is striking to me when I see other schools. I think because there's such an expectation of independence, the kids really tend to pick up on that and model that behavior. I like what it's done for our kids in terms of cleaning up after themselves. They'll both immediately go grab a towel to clean up if they spill or ask to help vacuum, sweep, or wipe down a table.
As much as a love Montessori and kind of want my kids to continue with it, we'll be moving them to traditional public school after pre-k and I'm confident they'll do just fine with that as well. So there's my novel for you.
Yes, I will say that this is a reason we made the jump to a more traditional school in K. Also, because public school is free and doesn't have a Montessori option.
My kid was an early reader and, thanks to Montessori and the super cool stuff they do with understanding numbers on so many different levels, could do low order multiplication IN HIS HEAD before he started K. But he had decided he was done with Montessori math so, had he not moved to a more traditional school, I'm not sure if he'd ever have advanced beyond that because he would have continued to opt out. Foreverrrr.
We were told on our tour that they can’t opt out entirely. Like they’ll have to complete a geography work, a math work, and a science work. And they can choose which one, but you can’t do all geography all day and never math.
My sons Montessori isn’t this way. He did nothing but math last year. Then for the first quarter of this year he didn’t touch math and only did early reading work. He seems to be balancing out a bit now.
We will probably keep him one more year at Montessori and then move to public for first grade . As a teacher, I’m nervous that his handwriting will be behind because a)he doesn’t care to practice and b) Montessori does cursive. But he’s definitely ahead right now in reading and math. Montessori has also helped his independence at home. He wanted a snack the other day- got out a cucumber, cutting board, and knife and sliced it totally on his own.
It hasn’t been as great of an experience for his less academically motivated friends. A few parents have complained about kids not knowing letters and numbers - but if that isn’t the work they’re choosing they’re not going to get those skills.
We were told on our tour that they can’t opt out entirely. Like they’ll have to complete a geography work, a math work, and a science work. And they can choose which one, but you can’t do all geography all day and never math.
Montessori has also helped his independence at home. He wanted a snack the other day- got out a cucumber, cutting board, and knife and sliced it totally on his own.
This is big for us too. Our 2 and 4 year olds get up in the morning, go downstairs and get themselves breakfast (they eat fig bars every morning during the week), eat, and then go up to get ready for school. DH taught DS1 how to use his espresso machine, so now DS1 gets DH a shot of espresso every morning and brings it to him in bed. They're pretty self-reliant. lol
I don't think ours teaches cursive though. DS1 can only do standard print.
We liked it at the time, but when it came to K and even into 1st grade we realized it was a terrible fit for DD2. She definitely needed more traditional learning and it wasn’t the best table to build her foundation on.
She’s smart, but not self motivated so she needs the extra push/guidance to get her confidence up.
This is my kid exactly. I can’t remember if we saw these traits at 2 but she’s the classic example of steering away from things that she finds “too hard” and pursuing only what comes naturally to her. I don’t know if Montessori corrects for that at all, but if she were entirely self-directed, she would never learn math lol. She’s one of those kids who needed/needs to learn “how to fail” and not be so hard on herself.
This is my kid too.
I dont knie how she is at school, but with activities, she's pretty quick to get discouraged if she's not good at it right away. If she's reading me a book and gets to a page with a few words she can't figure out (which is a lot because she's 5) she'll quickly tell me I should finish the book for her.
The one exception has been swimming, but I think that's largely because even when she can't figure something out, she really likes swimming.
Post by BicycleBride on Jan 7, 2020 16:57:04 GMT -5
You’ve gotten some good advice here and I’ll echo that every Montessori school is different and pretty much anyone can use the name Montessori but it doesn’t mean they adhere to the principles. Find out what Montessori accreditation the teachers have. Make sure you observe and see the class in action. Read up on some of the basics and look to see if those things are happening in the class (3 hr work block, teacher observing or working with individuals or small groups, etc). I went to a Montessori school for 3K- 3rd grade and currently DD is in a primary (pre-K and K) and DS is in a lower elementary (1st-3rd grade) Montessori class. DD is the kind of kid that constantly has work out and stays on task and doesn’t need many reminders to find different types of work and DS tends to socialize and avoid works he doesn’t like. He still has to do the works he doesn’t like and his teacher works with him to make sure he’s progressing.
My personal experience as a student and parent has been that primary students are given more leeway than lower elementary students to hyper focus on a particular area of work. The mixed age classes have been a major bonus for DS. Last year as a 5 year old/kindergartener, we discovered he was really good at helping the younger kids with new work and very motivated by being a good example. This year and when he was a 3/4 year old he is motivated by the example set by the “cool” older kids.
I did have trouble switching from a Montessori classroom to a traditional classroom but not at all academically. Stuff like not being able to stand up while doing my work and having to ask to go to the bathroom were hard for me to get used to. I was ahead of my new traditional classmates academically, especially in math.
My thought if it is for 3 year olds it's not going to be super academic. I'm not sure I would stay with the Montessori model long term though.
Ultimately we did decide against our community one but that was because there would be 3 schools during the transition rather than just daycare to K. But, with DD we did daycare to preschool to K, and it worked out fine, mostly because preschool was in the public school building.