Old house (do I want to go see it?)

[Susie]

H and I have not been looking to move.  We live in a 1970s-80s subdivision that isn't fancy, but is (on the edge of and just barely within) a great school district.  We bought it largely because of that, before our kids were born.  We really like almost all of our neighbors, and I like living in a neighborhood.  Our house is not a dream house, but we've been there for 10+ years and put a lot of effort into decorating, landscaping, etc.  We recently refinanced to get out of our FHA loan, and into a conventional loan.  We're around 71% LTV, 3.25% for 20 years, and comfortable.

We have 4 beds, 1.5 baths, 1860 sf for a family of four + my dad, who stays for extended periods regularly, so we need 4 bedrooms (us, DD, DS, and dad).  Among the things I wish were different about it:
- I wish it either had a 5th bedroom or an office space.
- I wish the master had an en suite bath and a walk in closet, or really I wish it had a walk in closet anywhere in the house.  There's no pantry, no storage closet, no linen closet, etc.
- I wish it had 2 full baths (preferably 2.5).
- I wish it had a 2 car garage (it has 1 car).
- I wish it had character.  It's a 1985 side hall colonial.  It's very practical, but not special, KWIM?
- I wish the yard was a littttttle bigger than 0.25 acre.

Anyway, we've talked about it many times, and I came to the conclusion that as much as I'd like those things, the cost of a house that a) has those things and b) looks as nice/to my taste as ours does now would be cost-prohibitive.  So we would stay put, and eventually look to add a master suite over the garage, fixing a couple of those issues.  We have 2 kids in daycare, student loans from law school x2, and our desire not to be overextended is greater than our desire to have a gorgeous house.

Meanwhile, a house came on the market that has grabbed my attention.  4 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2500 sf.  0.83 acre.  Built in 1840 (!).  It's 4-5 miles away from our current house, on a rural road that I bike on.  The commute is the same 9 miles or so to work that I have now, just on a different road for part of it.  Asking price is about $50k more than our house is worth, so not at all insane (IMO).  $50k is probably less than we'd spend doing that master addition someday.  It's in the neighboring school district, which isn't bad, but it's more rural and has fewer resources.  It seems so silly that we bought our current house for the schools, and literally the week I'm registering my DD for kindergarten, I'm entertaining moving out.  *facepalm*

So anyway.  I'm trying to talk myself out of this house.  What have you got for me?  (Or just enjoy the pics.  I love old houses.)












^ I admit that while this kitchen is pretty, this layout seems impractical.  Window seats on both sides of the sink?































So.  Drool.  However.  

These photos are definitely staged, artificially lit, etc.  I'm sure this house does not look this magical IRL.  When we bought our house originally, we looked at several old farm houses, and the pictures were always amazing and then we toured them and were like -- how did they get those photos of this house!?  Google Street View is decidedly less magical looking.

Other concerns:
- does not seem to have a garage, and definitely not an attached one, so that's a step in the wrong direction.  
- doesn't seem to have a working fireplace - which I would miss.  We have a wood burning fireplace now, and we use it.
- no air conditioning.  Again, not unusual in a house of this age, but we have it now and would miss it.  We used to not use it so much, but with young kids who nap during the hottest part of the day, we use it a lot more now.
- does not seem to have a basement, so while it has 700 sf more than we have now, we'd lose basement space (currently home to our laundry, chest freezer, backup fridge, de facto pantry, and workout space).  May end up kind of a wash.
- The upstairs bath is adjacent to the master, but is also shared with 2 other bedrooms.  So not exactly a private en suite master bath.  
- One of the bedrooms (the last one pictured) is over what looks like the addition, and off the kitchen stairs.  Doesn't have a very nearby bathroom (not ideal for kids or likely my aging dad).
- The bedroom with the book shelf and MacBook on a desk looks awfully small.

"Just go see it" is logistically hard with a 4 yo and a 7 month old, so bear with me based on the listing.  What haven't I thought of?

[raangoli]

It’s a beautiful house but your list of things you don’t like about it is what would keep me from going to see it. It’s something to admire but it doesn’t check off the boxes for you and your family’s practical needs. Also I’d definitely hate that kitchen sink.

Also that’s crazy that you’re going to register Hobbes for K! 🙂

[k3am]

I don't think it marks enough off your wishlist that it's going to fill your needs. Character and a bigger yard are nice to haves, but they're not going to beat function any day.

We don't have old houses like that here, so I'd make an effort to see it just for the sake of seeing it, but I'm guessing in your area there's less novelty to it.

[hbomdiggity]

My personality requires me to collect as much data as possible before I can make a decision. Therefore I would always question myself if I didn’t go see it and I would probably sneak away for a long lunch to do so.

I was also terrible with must have lists when home buying. I was usually able to justify lack of some things for gain of others.

The sink placement is for sure very puzzling however.

[mrsukyankee]

I'd go look at it. We have seen some houses that I thought might be fabulous and weren't and a few that I thought were 'meh' but were really lovely and would be a good fit with a touch of work. You don't have to buy it just look.

[Susie]

Jan 8, 2020 11:10:19 GMT -5 hbomdiggity said:

The sink placement is for sure very puzzling however.

Isn't it?  It also looks like the dishwasher is straight behind the sink, so when it's open, do you have room to stand at the sink?  I'm guessing yes, but it seems inconvenient.  Same with having the fridge hidden back in the butler's pantry.  Although on the flip side, a pantryyyyyy!

H and I are discussing, and we're ultimately coming down to, I think the storage issues are killers.  No garage, no basement, no attic... like where would literally everything in our basement (except the furnace and laundry) go?  Treadmill?  Camping gear?  Christmas stuff?  Bike trainers?  Work bench?  Chest freezer?

Which is something of a relief.  I feel like I have enough going on in my life, I don't need to add a house that is any more expensive, or a move, or any of that.  It was just so neat looking.  And most updated historic houses here go for like $500-600k (or way way more, depending), this one is $330k.  Much more attainable.  But I'm guessing there's a reason.

Unrelated, raangoli, I know -- how are we already here!?  Suddenly I'm researching before and after care and all that.  Insane.  She will definitely be a young kindergartener, she only makes the cutoff by 2 weeks.  But the date is the date, and she's on the "go next year" side of it.  She's been well prepared by her current program, so... here we go!

[pandorica]

That house looks gorgeous! However, I can't imagine having any storage space (basement and/or garage). That's a deal breaker for me.

ETA actually I just looked at the listing because I love looking at houses, and it says it has a full basement, so maybe there is some storage.

[penguingrrl]

I’d go look. But charm was a huge factor to me in buying a house. And I’ve never lived in a house with a garage so I don’t care about that at all. To me that house looks insanely amazing and like a total dream house.

[hocus2]

While it is very charming I don't think the house meets any of your needs. I think they've done work that specifically suite them (that closet looks like it was a bedroom or sitting room) and it doesn't seem to have most of your wish list items.

The space above the kitchen is really more office like IMO or a kid playroom. I would worry it gets really cold given how little room there seems to be for insulation.

[hbomdiggity]

I think there has to be a basement. It’s prob not pretty and maybe not even waterproof, but where else would the heater/boiler be?

[Susie]

So pandorica is right, the actual listing does say there's a full basement.  I'd just been looking on Zillow, which was how I found the house to begin with.  So there would likely be some storage.  But based on experience touring local houses of similar age, and the lack of photos, I'm betting it may not be full height (like H might stoop to walk down there), it's probably not dry, and it may or may not have a floor.  So when I think about our stuff, I think it would still be questionable storage space for things that we don't want damp, for exercise equipment, etc.  Not like the half finished basement we have now.

hocus2, I agree about the bedroom above the kitchen, and I think an office is how we would use it.  I can't see putting a kid up there, or my dad.  We'd probably have our family of 4 upstairs, and my dad in the pocket-doored off sitting room and my sewing/our desks in the above-kitchen bedroom.  The kids would have dramatically different sized rooms.

Ultimately I'm still stuck on where we'd workout.  When I don't have tiny kids I do triathlons, so we're talking about bike trainers, a treadmill, etc.  That would be a serious challenge.  I don't necessarily have the feel that this house is modified to accommodate a family that uses space the way we do.  I do wish they had an open house scheduled though!  I'm feeling casually curious.

[Velar Fricative]

Meh, it's nice but I don't think it's worth moving for. I know for us to move, we'd have to get significantly more than what we have, and there are quite a few things (like a garage and a/c) that this house doesn't even have. So I wouldn't bother taking a look.

Does your current house have a basement? Can you make a full bathroom down there? But then again, the master suite you're planning above the garage would give you another bathroom too, yes? And can you add a second garage? I'm asking all this assuming it makes financial sense given your budget, comps in the area, etc.

[sandandsea]

The bathroom and garage situation would be a non starter for me. Also the kitchen sink is weird as there seems to be no counter space next to it. It seems like a charming house but very nonfunctional for a modern family, which would irritate me in some way daily.

[candreco]

I'd happily stay in that house as an AirBnB, but I don't think I'd want to live in it. It seems chopped up, I'm sure the rooms are WAY smaller than they look, storage seems minimal, and that kitchen looks not very functional (OMG, the sink location is killing me, do people actually sit in those window seats?).

[Susie]

Jan 8, 2020 13:31:38 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Does your current house have a basement? Can you make a full bathroom down there? But then again, the master suite you're planning above the garage would give you another bathroom too, yes? And can you add a second garage? I'm asking all this assuming it makes financial sense given your budget, comps in the area, etc.

Yes, we have a basement under most of the house.  Basically the basement is as wide as the brick facade.  The family room is behind the garage and does not have a basement under it.



A basement bathroom would not make sense from a use or plumbing perspective.  But yes, if we do the master suite addition, we'd get another upstairs bath that way (probably a 3/4 bath) which would solve the problem.  Our current only full bath becomes the kid/guest/hall bath, we get a small master bath, and everybody wins.  We gutted our full bath in 2018, and specifically plumbed it in a way that we could tie in a master bath over the garage just on the other side of the wall at a later date.  

This hypothetical reno has been an idea for a long time.  I don't know exactly how much it'll cost (it'll end up including siding the whole house) so hard to say if it makes financial sense.  It must make some though, because it's not a novel idea.  Other homes in our neighborhood of the same style as ours have done the over-the-garage addition with varying degrees of architectural grace and subtlety (lol):











I am not sure if we could add a 2nd garage bay.  If we did, it would probably buy us some upstairs square footage too that would be nice.  I'd have to look into setbacks, etc. to see if we have enough room on that side property line, or how hard it would be to get a variance.  Pretty sure our neighbors on that side wouldn't care.

[bhnumbers]

The house is darling, just beautiful, but the drawbacks are not small. No AC? Are you far up north? That would be a major deal breaker for me.

Also, that kitchen sink? It's so pretty but, hooooow can one do dishes without getting water all over those pretty window seats? You'd be forever dripping water down the sides.

[Susie]

ok, I think all the comments about the kitchen are affirming my hesitations. Thank you all for talking me down. I think my flirtation with this house is winding down, lol. A very good economical decision.

A good AirBnB but a lousy house to live in -- that is ringing really true for me.

[simpsongal]

Jan 8, 2020 16:32:58 GMT -5 Susie said:

ok, I think all the comments about the kitchen are affirming my hesitations. Thank you all for talking me down. I think my flirtation with this house is winding down, lol. A very good economical decision.

A good AirBnB but a lousy house to live in -- that is ringing really true for me.

i think you have discovered that you’re open to moving for the right house. Do you have auto searches set up for houses of a certain age and size hitting the market?
Yay for Hobbes!

[lessel]

Go for function over form. We recently did that (from ultra cool mid-century architecture to snoozer of a brick colonial) and I’m happy with the decision.

That staircase in the kitchen also looks precariously steep and like I’d hit my head on it (I’m not tall). I think it’s gorgeous in a lot of ways and A+ on staging and photos.

[hbomdiggity]

Thanks to this post I spent the day internet house searching. We also start K in the fall but opposite scenario - nearly perfect house in not so great school district. Figured we’d just go private school but now that the time has come I don’t know what to do! Sooo researching all options, lol.

[Susie]

Jan 8, 2020 17:03:51 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Jan 8, 2020 16:32:58 GMT -5 Susie said:

ok, I think all the comments about the kitchen are affirming my hesitations. Thank you all for talking me down. I think my flirtation with this house is winding down, lol. A very good economical decision.

A good AirBnB but a lousy house to live in -- that is ringing really true for me.

i think you have discovered that you’re open to moving for the right house. Do you have auto searches set up for houses of a certain age and size hitting the market?
Yay for Hobbes!

I've always been getting emails from zillow as houses come on the market meeting certain criteria, which is how I found this one.  I also used to get weekly digests from a local realtor, but I eventually stopped that because constantly looking was making me feel less settled and happy with my house.  It's not like we've got money burning a hole in our pockets, it's probably for the best for me to feel happy and planted.  

I've always been open in some fashion to the idea of moving rather than improving, it's just that the more we improve, the higher the bar gets for what a house needs to offer for me to go through *hand wave* all that to move.  First we got it painted, yard fenced, then flooring done, gutted both bathrooms, landscaped the yard, yada yada... and now all of a sudden buying a house with a bathroom I hate and no landscaping feels like a step down, KWIM?  And at this point the kind of houses that make me say "yeah, I could see moving there" -- because they're both updated nicely AND bigger than ours -- cost more than I want to spend on a house at this point in our lives.  This one is the first one I've seen that was even superficially tempting, and also within our price point.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 8, 2020 20:22:33 GMT -5 Susie said:

Jan 8, 2020 17:03:51 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

i think you have discovered that you’re open to moving for the right house. Do you have auto searches set up for houses of a certain age and size hitting the market?
Yay for Hobbes!

I've always been open in some fashion to the idea of moving rather than improving, it's just that the more we improve, the higher the bar gets for what a house needs to offer for me to go through *hand wave* all that to move.  First we got it painted, yard fenced, then flooring done, gutted both bathrooms, landscaped the yard, yada yada... and now all of a sudden buying a house with a bathroom I hate and no landscaping feels like a step down, KWIM?

I don’t see this as a bad thing though. Moving is expensive and annoying, and you seem to enjoy your community. Even if maybe you won’t get all of what you put into this house back, you’re making it the best possible house for you and your family. And that also means that if you do consider moving, you can really wait for close to a perfect house. No harm in casually looking, but the house in the OP just seemed like a step down in so many ways.

[lilac05]

It’s fun to look at other homes, but I think you’re making a good decision not to pursue it. It just misses the mark on too many important things. As far as the kitchen, I don’t understand why they didn’t swap the dishwasher and sink locations. Not that the dishwasher would look great between the windows, but at least the sink would be more functional!

When considering a potential addition, not everything has to make sense financially. In addition to the MANY hidden expenses of moving, there’s also tremendous value in loving where you live. It may not translate to dollars, but it may translate to a sense of calm or happiness, and that’s incredibly important, too! Obviously, I wouldn’t build a $2M addition, but a reasonable addition that prioritizes your family’s needs would likely be a solid investment overall (considering the financial side AND the mental/emotional side).

[froggy76]

I love old houses with personality so I'd definitely look. You'd have to spend some money to make the kitchen more functional- that sink placement is not practical and the windows probably need to be made smaller so you can have more counter space.

I'm surprised it only has .83 acres because there's so much open land around. Who owns that land and is it at risk for development?

[pierogigirl]

The brick inside is lovely, but the blue counter is yuck. With small kids, those kitchen stairs don't look easy to make safe (no railings and a big gap on the side). I don't think I'd look at it.

[aspentosh]

Jan 8, 2020 21:43:54 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jan 8, 2020 20:22:33 GMT -5 Susie said:

I've always been open in some fashion to the idea of moving rather than improving, it's just that the more we improve, the higher the bar gets for what a house needs to offer for me to go through *hand wave* all that to move.  First we got it painted, yard fenced, then flooring done, gutted both bathrooms, landscaped the yard, yada yada... and now all of a sudden buying a house with a bathroom I hate and no landscaping feels like a step down, KWIM?

I don’t see this as a bad thing though. Moving is expensive and annoying, and you seem to enjoy your community. Even if maybe you won’t get all of what you put into this house back, you’re making it the best possible house for you and your family. And that also means that if you do consider moving, you can really wait for close to a perfect house. No harm in casually looking, but the house in the OP just seemed like a step down in so many ways.

I was thinking the same thing. We've updated our house so much to what we like (but not kooky, lol) that our "must haves" list matches much of our current house so it would take THE PERFECT house to move. 

We bought a fixer upper and it needed a lot of work to make it more functional for us. About two years in H was over the updating aspect and so we created a list like Love It or List It about our must haves. Five years ago when we were doing this there were a lot that didn't overlap and now the only thing we wish is for one fewer bedroom. 

[memenee]

I love it. Makes my 1920s colonial seem so young! I’m an old house enabler so I will see myself out of here now. I will just say buy it without weighing any of the pros/cons.

That is all.