Would you move?

[mommyatty]

I had an informational interview for a job in Phoenix yesterday. I haven’t even applied for the job, but a former coworker/friend works at this company and floated my name to their in house recruiter. I talked with her and then to the VP who would be my boss should I take the job.

I’m currently a general director, in a company that’s highly stratified. We are NOT a flat organization at all. I have three direct reports. One of my reports has three direct reports. My other two direct reports handle large numbers of consultants in lieu of us hiring employees to do the work. I love leading people.

My current job gets further and further away from practicing law every year. And I love practicing law. But I also love the technical work I’m doing. In particular, I run our Sustainability program, where I’m working on big stuff like energy management, water and waste reduction, and a couple of projects where my team has come up with ideas the company is patenting. So it’s pretty exciting work. But, and this is a big hairy but, there is absolutely zero chance of my moving up in the organization. I’ve been passed over for promotion in the law department three times. Well, really once, where three people who aren’t me got promoted. I was devastated.

My current industry is in flux, and not in a good way. Our competitors or laying off thousands of people at a time. So far, we’ve shrunk through attrition, but I don’t know that it will continue. I’m anxious all the time, worried that my position will just be eliminated. Also, to be frank, I hate the culture in my company. They are flat out proud that employees are expendable. There’s a ton of blaming and backstabbing and finger pointing. People won’t own up to mistakes because they’re scared to. Our Exec Team says constantly “we are a 24 by 7 industry,” meaning every exempt employee is on call every hour of every day.

The new job would be at a senior manager. It’s an individual contributor, doing mostly litigation. The industry and company are in growth mode. And they see this position moving to a director level in the short term, with direct reports. They of course can’t make promises, but they’ve had a good period of growth, and it appears they have more growing to do. I really liked the VP a lot. The company is on Forbes Best Employers for Women list as well as a bunch of lists regarding ethical companies. The same day I talked to the VP, the recruiter emailed me asking me to go ahead and apply because they really want to fly me to Phoenix to talk in person.

I am scared to move. My kids love their school. We love their school. We’ve finally built a community here. But I hate my job. I have middle of the night panic attacks that I think come in large part from our shitty culture, which feeds the very worst parts of me.

And I’m scared I’m taking a step backward. A kind of big step backward. I haven’t been an individual contributor in years. But the VP moved from being a partner at a major law firm to a job one step below this one and indicated that there’s a ton of room for advancement even into other departments, and he gave me probably half a dozen examples of lawyers who had moved from a manager level to VP in fairly short amounts of time.

We haven’t talked money at all yet, but my old coworker explained where I am in the food chain at my current company and that they may not be able to afford me. The HR person told me their pay is quite good and she didn’t seem to think that was a real issue.

So, if you’re still with me, what would it take for you to move? A pay increase that matches the change in COL? More than that? Would the possibility for advancement be a big driver?

[madringal]

At this stage of my life (ie, not living paycheck to paycheck, with kids and a family I enjoy spending time with, and the maturity to realize that my career isn't everything) job satisfaction is really important. Because it literally impacts every other facet of my life. I can't be the best mom/wife/friend/volunteer/human being on earth - if I am consumed by a job that causes me stress and anxiety.

I would at the very least apply and see what they have to offer you. You do not need to decide on taking this job right this moment. Just decide to at least pursue it.

[k3am]

Applying for a job doesn't mean taking it. Interviewing doesn't mean taking it. I don't think you can really even consider making a major life changing decision about it without interviewing and getting an offer. And then maybe you decide YES, it's SO WORTH THE RISK. Or maybe you decide the pay isn't enough or the job isn't what you want. But you don't have all the facts yet, and it's impossible to make a decision based on speculation.

[traveltheworld]

Depending on where they come in for comp, I would move. I think given the general overall legal landscape, it's really important to go into a growth industry. Depending on how long you plan to work, you are looking at another 15 - 20 years. And having a job that you like is really important. Also, it's important to think about your overall career trajectory. Staying at the same company, without being promoted, affects your marketability in the long run.

I'd find out more about the corporate structure and people though. How many directors are there? How old are they? Where do they move on to, etc. These are conversations that may be better had with the HR person (rather than the VP).

I wouldn't worry too much about schools. There are good schools everywhere. Kids will adapt.

Change is scary. I moved 2.5 years ago; and although I miss our families and friends and it has lead to a lot of job uncertainty for DH, I'm still glad we did it.

[covergirl82]

It sounds like the culture at your current company is toxic, and that is a hard place to be long term. Hearing that the industry is also headed south is also a good reason to consider other options.

I agree with others that exploring this new opportunity sounds like a good option and you can always say no, or even see how much they're willing to negotiate. Change would be hard for me too, but there is nothing to say that if you take this new job that you have to stay there or in Phoenix forever. I agree with traveltheworld that there are good schools everywhere, and your kids will adapt.

[mustardseed2007]

So I'm a GC at a mid sized company and just speaking for myself, I would consider a new opportunity. Any new opportunity would aaaaaalmost certainly be a step back, but my current situation is not setting me up for success and I'd rather leave on my own terms than be forced out when the company implodes. I know I've posted about that off and on but that's my current mood right this moment. Title isn't everything. It's almost nothing to me actually.

My issue with moving would be pay and knowing what my spouse would do for work too. Honestly, when considering positions in my same city, I've run the numbers on what I REALLY need to make in order to pay my bills and pay for my kid's private school and I made that my bottom line number because life is too short. If it was a different city or state I would try to adjust for what I would need to make in that state to reach that same bottom line number (keeping in mind that school choice would change and maybe we would or would not be in private school).

[supertrooper1]

Short answer: yes, I would move.

Even though I didn't move when I changed jobs in March, it was still a huge change for me and I don't regret it at all. I didn't realize how miserable I really was at my old job until I left. I knew I was unhappy and it was making me depressed, but I really see how much now that I'm in a job that is great.

If they offer you a job in a range where you can comfortably live and your H can still SAH (if that's what you both want), I would take it. Life is too short to be unhappy at work.

[ilovelucyvv]

I agree that its worth at least having a formal interview, finding out more information about the company, then seeing what kind of number they may able to give you for compensation

[twinmomma]

Jan 15, 2020 11:39:15 GMT -5 k3am said:

Applying for a job doesn't mean taking it. Interviewing doesn't mean taking it. I don't think you can really even consider making a major life changing decision about it without interviewing and getting an offer. And then maybe you decide YES, it's SO WORTH THE RISK. Or maybe you decide the pay isn't enough or the job isn't what you want. But you don't have all the facts yet, and it's impossible to make a decision based on speculation.

I'd say this is it exactly. Go for it, get more info, do more interviews, and then start weighing the pros and cons. 

I took a "step back" when I started at my current job. I went from Director to Manager and was an individual contributor again. I did so well and expanded things so much that within 6 months of starting I was building a team and making big moves at the company. I would imagine you're in the same boat - might be taking a step back at first but will very quickly propel yourself forward and prove that you're worth the higher steps. 

Job satisfaction and less stress is so, so important. If you go through the process and like what you see, those benefits can outweigh a lot of the title type stuff. 

[186momx]

In your case yes I would move. Your current company seems very toxic. You have very little work/life balance. You get lots of vacation but then can't use said vacation or when you are off you are still working. They have you flying all over the place on little notice and don't really seem to care. There are tons of good schools around and your kids will adapt. I also think it is a lot easier for younger kids to switch schools than teenagers.

I would look at housing prices, taxes (AZ has state taxes, property tax, and sales tax, plus who knows what other taxes), private school costs, and day to day living so that you can live the same as you are now and go in with that $ range for comp. I would also ask about growth and work/life balance.

Do you think your DH would continue to be a SAHD? Would you be moving MIL with you?

[sdlaura]

I were in your situation and were the primary breadwinner in my family with a SAH spouse, and also didn't feel a huge affinity for my current location, I would move.

I personally would not move for a few reasons - #1 I live in what I believe to be a pretty perfect place - it would be hard to give up coastal San Diego. #2 - DH and I are pretty equal in terms of supporting our family in terms of earnings, so we'd need to figure out new equivalent jobs for both of us. #3 - With both of us working and baby #4 on the way, I wouldn't give up the set-up we have now in terms of proximity to the elementary school and the relationships we've built with babysitters, baby daycare on our street, etc.

But I don't think any of the reasons I wouldn't move would apply to your situation. I think your kids are young enough to adapt. I'd be more worried about moving my kids in middle/high school.

[waverly]

For me, no I wouldn't move in my current life situation because I like my job. For you, yes I would. You've been on edge about this job for a long time now, and I think you owe it to yourself to explore your options.

DH has floated moving to me before, and I basically said no. But I asked this board, and they said I should not move unless he got enough pay raise to include my salary since my salary/ benefits would not be guaranteed in a new location. I am at the top of my pay grade, and all the advertisements I see are way below what I make now. I asked other people in my position, and they all says they won't change organizations because of the pay grade. But we are in a totally different industry, and most don't work the way mine does. But this requirement really doesn't seem super feasible since he would need a substantial raise to include my salary. The only place he was offered a position was actually less than he currently made, and there is a company culture issue. He ended up declining it, but had he been single or straight out of school it would be great, but not great to move and then make less and then not have my salary and benefits as well. I can likely find another job, but it might take a while and again who knows what it might be/ pay etc. Since your DH is a SAHD at the moment, that makes those calculations easier. 

[shakinros]

Definitely would take the interview and see. Whether or not I’d ultimately move depends on having more info.

[mae0111]

I would definitely consider it. In fact, we were seriously considering it when things erupted at school earlier this year. DH works out of the house and for himself, and travels a ton. We could have picked one of the cities where he has work and moved. One matched our current VHCOL city, and the other was much lower COL. From that perspective, unless we choose NYC or San Francisco, we have nowhere to go but down from a COL perspective.

For you, I’d absolutely take the meetings and go through the process. I wouldn’t be concerned with taking a step back. You’ll make it up quickly.

Good luck!!

[librarychica]

Jan 15, 2020 11:39:15 GMT -5 k3am said:

Applying for a job doesn't mean taking it. Interviewing doesn't mean taking it. I don't think you can really even consider making a major life changing decision about it without interviewing and getting an offer. And then maybe you decide YES, it's SO WORTH THE RISK. Or maybe you decide the pay isn't enough or the job isn't what you want. But you don't have all the facts yet, and it's impossible to make a decision based on speculation.

This. I would seriously, seriously consider it. When I read your description of your current job I was so horrified I immediately went to see if my employer had anything suitable. (We don’t, yet.) That is how horrified I was.

[rere]

When you consider 20 yrs of work, I dont think it would be sustainable to stay at a job that you wake up with anxiety, so at some point, you will have to go. Unless there are a lot of opportunities in your location, it would mean a move.

If they can match your requirements and this is a place you would like to live with your family, go for it. Take the interview.

[cosmowife]

I would move but I wouldn’t consider a step back in role. I’d seriously like to meet one man who has taken a step back to get a new job - I’m sure they exist but I don’t know any personally. Yet I hear this from women constantly.

[mommyatty]

Jan 15, 2020 19:52:55 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

I would move but I wouldn’t consider a step back in role. I’d seriously like to meet one man who has taken a step back to get a new job - I’m sure they exist but I don’t know any personally. Yet I hear this from women constantly.

Interestingly, the male VP I would report to took a bigger step back than I’m contemplating. He went from partner at a major law firm to a step below the job I would be taking. Which is why I’m wondering if it’s really a step back for me as a lawyer.

[k3am]

Jan 15, 2020 19:52:55 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

I would move but I wouldn’t consider a step back in role. I’d seriously like to meet one man who has taken a step back to get a new job - I’m sure they exist but I don’t know any personally. Yet I hear this from women constantly.

They exist! People step back for all reasons. One of the guys I know in my field was grinding and making 6-figure bonuses and slated to take over his division when his manager retired (2ish years). The way life worked out, his wife got cancer while she was pregnant (she beat it and baby is fine!), but he realized he needed to re-prioritize and instead, he switched companies and took a step back to an individual contributor role. 

I think what you hear more of (maybe what you're referencing - basically my example above, but in reverse) is women stepping back in their careers in order to be more present with their families, which isn't something men are doing with much frequency. 

I don't think this is a case of stepping back in those terms. I read it as OP considering it because her company/industry is in flux - so she's considering making changes around that. 

But I may be interpreting all of you wrong.

[erinshelley21]

I second (or ninth or tenth at this point) what others said about interviewing not meaning you've made a decision. I would interview and strongly consider moving. Quality of life is way more important to me than titles and, to some extent, pay.

You need to interview at the very least. I try to make decisions based on I'll only regret the things I don't do. In this case, I think you'll regre not exploring.

FWIW, I think your kids will adjust to a big move. You've let them be their own people and they get plenty of socialization. have a relative that moved his family when his kids were starting 9th and 8th grade. They were both soooooooo shy and sheltered, and I was worried how it would go. Both parents and both sets of grandparents were born and raised here. The oldest's personality just exploded and he ended up being a totally different kid in a good way. The youngest is still shy but I think that's just who she is as a person, which is also fine. My point is, if those kids can adapt to a new move 3 states away, yours will kick ass at it because you're an awesome mom.

[HeartofCheese]

I would definitely apply to get more info, but wait to make a decision. Most significant factor would be pay.

I wouldn't care if I took one step back in position temporarily if the opportunity for advancement was so much more.

And if I recall, your kids are still pretty young. I can't imagine committing to a bad job for several more years for that reason (i.e., your kids' schools) alone. Your kids will change schools and friends many times over whether you stay or go. As the backbone/provider for your family - what is best for you and your ability to support the family over the long run is much more important.

Oh. And your DH should agree. (Says the divorced poster way after that fact. XD)