Post by amandakisser on Jan 16, 2020 10:47:12 GMT -5
Background: Since before we even got married, my H and I have had one big account that I use to pay all of our bills, and then separate accounts for us to use ourselves for everything else. The typical way I think many partnerships set up their finances.
Without going into too much detail, it is NOT working, because every single week my husband blows through his budget and started using credit cards, and racked up a balance that I've been struggling to pay off (the cards have since been cut up so that can't happen again). So I am trying to separate our finances a bit, where we each are responsible for our own bills. However, I'm stuck on exactly HOW to divide them. Some things are easy: H and I will each pay our own car payments, I pay for my gym membership, he pays for his, and then we are each taking a credit card (I may give him both since he's the one who put the majority of the balances on them, though I have a bit that I was already paying off from being laid off two years ago).
However, I'm not sure what to do with the rest because he has NEVER EVER paid a bill on his own in his life (we've been together since we were very young and he lived at home) and he has zero clue how to budget his money. So I'm hesitant to give him responsibility over other bills, like the electric bill or our cell phone, that could negatively impact me should he forget to pay. I was considering just "billing" him for it every week...but that's essentially what I do now, by immediately putting it into the joint account and allocating all over the left over money to him every week. I just need him to take on the mental load quite a bit more than he does, and feel some responsibility for this part of being an adult.
I will also say, for more context, that this is part of a larger pattern of me having to "mother" him, and this is just one way I'm trying to stop enabling him. Yes, marriage counseling is in the works as well Just looking for advice specific to this particular topic, as it is the most immediate and tangible.
Post by definitelyO on Jan 16, 2020 10:50:57 GMT -5
DH and I have always had combined finances. But a friend did the separate thing. they each paid 50% of the childcare bills, groceries, then half the bills were in each person's name- she paid internet/cable, he paid electricity, etc..
with regard to the budget - could you just put x$ on a pre-paid card? that way he cannot exceed whatever the limit is?
Could you have a weekly budget meeting? Every Sunday night sit down and review the bills - pay them together, plan for the upcoming week's expenses, etc... then you have the confidence that it's getting done and he gets the experience of doing it and being involved.
Post by virginia1212 on Jan 16, 2020 10:55:37 GMT -5
We don’t have a joint account. His paycheck is direct deposited into my account (minus a small amount that is deducted and dd into his account for gas, tolls, lunches, incidentals) and I pay all bills through my account. It works perfectly because I just cannot trust that he’ll pay things on time (he works a high stress job and it’s so much relief for him to not have that to think about).
My twin sister and her H have separate finances. I know my sister pays for all groceries & the electric bill and her H pays the mortgage. I can ask her for more details if you'd like. I'm glad counseling is in the works and I hope it's a good help for you both.
Post by doggielover on Jan 16, 2020 10:57:58 GMT -5
We have always had combined finances but are you able to go to the cash method for budgeting things? This is what DH and I have done when it comes to eating out/fun money. Each week we both get $50 and that's to go for things like lunches out at work/coffee etc. When it's gone it's gone for the week. DH and I also regularly talk about what we're buying and anything over $250 we talk about before purchasing so there's no surprises.
What has worked for me is to pay all the bills but to have my H (at the time) to give me money. I’d calculate the bills and he would give me a portion based on our income. I like control too.
I came in here because we do have separate accounts, and divide up who pays which bills, but at the end of the day, we trust each other to pay those bills.
I'm not sure there is a magic solution to force him to take on the mental load of remembering/paying if he doesn't want to take it on. I mean, obviously he is capable of doing it if he is regularly paying his car, credit card and his gym membership. It sounds like he is just... choosing not to deal with the other bills because he knows that you will take care of it.
I know this is still mothering him to a degree, but is it possible to establish a monthly bill-paying night where you both sit down and pay the bills that you each are responsible for? If he's willing to do that, it would lower the likelihood of him forgetting to pay a bill, since you are both paying all the bills at once. It would also give you a set time each month to review how both of you have been spending money in the past month. It sounds like you may need to review that regularly anyway.
But ultimately, therapy is going to be the best way to find a meaningful solution.
Post by lilypad1126 on Jan 16, 2020 11:00:13 GMT -5
We have separate finances for the most part (one small joint account for groceries and vacations).
Anyway, we've figured out what each bill typically costs each month, then split it so we are each responsible for half the monthly total. For us it works out that he pays the rent and I pay all the other utility bills/health insurance premiums/and I fund most of our grocery money. It's roughly 50/50.
We each pay our own cell phone (though that is going to change next month when we finally add him to my account), our own car payment, our own insurance. Those bills are not equal, but we both have our own money/accounts and can decide if we want a fancier car so bigger car payment type of things.
I will add that this only works because we are both on the same page financially and we both have access to each others info online. Yes, my car is newer and slightly more expensive. But we talked about it and new going in that was the case and he knows I have enough money to cover it or I would have gotten a cheaper car. Really, I can't stress this part enough. If we weren't on the same page, separate finances this way would not work at all.
with regard to the budget - could you just put x$ on a pre-paid card? that way he cannot exceed whatever the limit is?
Could you have a weekly budget meeting? Every Sunday night sit down and review the bills - pay them together, plan for the upcoming week's expenses, etc... then you have the confidence that it's getting done and he gets the experience of doing it and being involved.
Post by sotally tober on Jan 16, 2020 11:03:29 GMT -5
This is a hot topic in my home. I struggle because all of our finances are combined, with the exception of one card that my H doesn't have access to and it makes him crazy. He has his own card that I don't have access to and honestly I could care less - I think it's a control thing, but that's a whole other issue.
Our struggle is more along the lines of who brings home more money (me) and who spends more because "keeping up with the Jones" is important (him). This is something I'm working through, personally.
After having gone through cancer I feel like my perspective is different now, I want to have experiences with my kid and H and he wants to keep buying this or that. He and I are on completely different planets and have been for a while and the finances piece is a huge part of that. In hindsight I wish so badly we would have kept our finances separate...I just didn't grown up with that and thought part of getting married means combining everything. Clearly, I'm a work in progress here.
I won't answer about my current marriage because that's a financial shit show LOL
With my first husband, we kept both joint and individual accounts. The Joint account was set up to pay any/all household bills. We sat down and totaled up everything mortgage, insurance, groceries, utilities, joint debt. Say that amount came to $1000. We then looked at our salaries. Pretend that we brought in $10,000 net, with me bringing in 40% and him bringing in 60%. That was how we then determined how much we would each put in the joint account. So, if we needed $1,000 per month, I would deposit $400 and he would deposit $600. Anything else we were responsible for individually. It mostly worked out for us, since he made more he usually paid for dinners out and what not, I usually paid for kid stuff.
To be honest, I think that the way that H and I currently have everything set up - 1 account, all monies deposited, we each get a weekly cash amount - should work in theory, but we're both pretty out of control with our spending, so until we can nip that, we will continue to struggle.
Post by sproctopus on Jan 16, 2020 11:05:09 GMT -5
We don't share finances. We each have our own savings and checking accounts. We divide bills up according to what is feasible for each person's salary (the person making more pays more).
He has reminders set up on his phone and budgets each pay period what needs to be paid from what check.
Even though we dont share a joint account, all of our money belongs to both of us. If there is a repair or need, and one feels like they're in a better position to pay or assist, they do. It's worked for 12 years for us, with and without kids.
Not exactly. We do have several joint accounts (checking/savings/investment) fueled by H's earnings. From that, we pay all our living expenses and fund our e-fund and investments. He has no other accounts.
My income goes into an account in my name only that is POD to H. From that, I fund elective things - our vacations, home improvement, and a lot of random incidentals, as well as tuition at DS's private school, cars and other large items when we pay in cash. I also have my own savings that is POD to H. There is no reason within our own marriage for this exactly, other than we agreed when we got married that my money would be "mine" and "his" would be ours. In large part, this is because my birth parents divorced and my mother always instilled in me the need for a woman to have a substantial cushion of money that is hers alone. In reality, it's all ours, of course. It's just how we started out more than a decade ago and it's stuck.
We have our own retirement accounts. We also have a trust, which TBH I don't totally understand, and all the major assets outside of some accounts are in that too. It sounds complicated but day to day, it's really not.
ETA: There is also a 10 year age difference between us. This was a bigger deal when I was in my 20s and not really totally established in the financial world and he was outearning me dramatically. That has all balanced out with time/age but I think it was one of those reasons where he was like, we'll just live on what I make. I imagine when he retires, things will change in the other direction.
Post by lemoncupcake on Jan 16, 2020 11:06:49 GMT -5
I think there are plenty of reasons to have separate finances, but I don’t know that this is one of them. I’d worry that he would not only continue to make disastrous financial decisions, but you would have less visibility to them. His decisions aren’t just affecting him, they’re affecting you. Has he expressed any regret or commitment to spend more responsibly?
We have a household account that we each put a specific amount in each month. The house bill come out of that account and I make sure they are all paid. We also have 1 joint card for household purchases. That bill also comes out of this account.
We each have our own accounts and we each pay all our own bills....gym, car, own cc, etc..
A travel account also has a set amount we each deposit every month.
It really sucks when 1 of the group is suck with $. My H is not the best but his bills are his problem not mine. He makes triple the money I make, yet im the one who never has an issue. He has gotten 80% better over the last 20 years but he still annoys me once in a while.
Maybe a meeting with a financial planner could help him?
Post by arehopsveggies on Jan 16, 2020 11:11:43 GMT -5
He works, I don’t. All the money goes into my account. He doesn’t know how to access it, although his name is technically on it. I do all the bill paying from there. When he needs money for errands, gas, etc, he calls and I transfer an appropriate amount. Anything left on Friday goes to savings automatically
It seems like a ridiculous system but it works. We did the same thing when I was working but then there was more fun money put into his account each week.
Post by imojoebunny on Jan 16, 2020 11:25:05 GMT -5
With the exception of mortgage, we have completely separate finances. It works for us because we 100% trust each other to manage money. I do not work, and get a check every few months from DH for the expenses I pay, which are not split along my expenses/his expenses, but rather what makes sense for me to pay, and what makes sense for him to pay. We have a general budget that we both are pretty good about sticking to, and includes pretty much everything, even those one time rando things that seem to pop up every month. In our case, having separate accounts allows us to manage funds more easily, since we don't have to worry about what the other is doing at any given time. In your case, I see this turning into a nightmare and causing a lot of fights and bitterness. As much as it sucks, I would both sit down once a week, and go through your spending, until he understands where the money is going, and why he can't have more.
Post by lightbulbsun on Jan 16, 2020 11:26:04 GMT -5
I'm not sure this is the best solution to your problem. Have you really gone over your budget with him before? Maybe try an app like YNAB or something to really show him why he needs to be reducing his spending. Or give him a prepaid CC like someone else suggested so that he can't go over his limit.
H and I have separate accounts, but mostly because we were too lazy to get a new account and it works for us. We don't split the cost of bills, but each of us has bills that we pay. I pay my car payment, trash, and electric/gas, and H pays the mortgage, water, and lawn service. We each have our own CCs which we pay. I use H's CC for gas and groceries since he gets a lot of points, and we use mine for restaurants and travel for the same reason. I pay for vacations, home improvements, and fund both of our IRAs, because H puts most of his extra money towards the principal of our mortgage. It seems messy, but both of us are pretty frugal in general, and we never really fight about money. I would probably not like this system if H wasn't good at managing his own money and paying bills.
Post by amandakisser on Jan 16, 2020 11:28:10 GMT -5
Thanks, all.
To answer some questions: I've tried having a weekly budget meeting with him. He doesn't want to do it because, as he very plainly puts it, "just tell me how much I have to spend and I'm good." Except it obviously doesn't work LOL.
I tried putting expenses on a credit card for the points; he saw that as free money and maxed out the $6500 limit in two months.
He has an overdraft account attached to his personal account; it is maxed out
Yesterday, my daughters came to me crying because they had no more money in their piggy banks. Yeah...my H took it. I have no idea what he spent it on because I was seeing red (for reference, my mom took $$ from me as a kid and never paid it back. This includes hundreds of dollars worth of savings bonds).
We recently refinanced our house and received cash back for a basement AND to pay off some of the credit cards. Immediately upon getting the cash my husband started listing out all this random things he wanted to use the money for in addition to the basement. I transferred ALL of the money into my personal savings account as a result of that.
So, yeah, I'm kind of at a breaking point because he literally doesn't care about spending all of the money. And obviously when I refuse to give him extra to save his ass he goes and takes it from our kids, which was the final straw for me. Ugh, this sounds soooooooo fucked up when I type it up.
Post by sineadorebellion on Jan 16, 2020 11:28:51 GMT -5
H and I have separate accounts. Every two weeks I just transfer money to him for the "big bills"; the mortgage and utilities in one, and the credit cards, phone, and cable bill in the other. Those are all our joint bills basically and are all set up under his name (but I'm listed as an authorized user on everything). We divided it up and set up payments that way so it's roughly the same amount every two weeks that we both individually need to budget for.
My daughter's (his step daughters for clarification) stuff is completely separate from everything and is covered by their dad's child support (extracurriculars and after school care).
Groceries and fun things like Six Flags trips I normally budget for and cover, but that's because I earn twice what he does.
The biggest thing we've worked out is that we're a partnership. Our relationship, our family, it doesn't work if we don't both contribute equally in effort rather than equally in dollars. I think that perspective helps both of us.
Post by mrsukyankee on Jan 16, 2020 11:33:06 GMT -5
amandakisser, yeah, he has a SERIOUS problem. This goes beyond what you originally told us to something that sounds like an addiction. I think personal counselling as well as debt counselling for him is an imminent need. Stealing from your child is not good.
I think there are plenty of reasons to have separate finances, but I don’t know that this is one of them. I’d worry that he would not only continue to make disastrous financial decisions, but you would have less visibility to them. His decisions aren’t just affecting him, they’re affecting you. Has he expressed any regret or commitment to spend more responsibly?
I will ditto this.
Seperating finances seems like it will cause you to have more work at this point.
I'd continue managing finances and give him his money in cash. Change CC numbers too since he may have them saved in browsers.
We keep our money separately for the most part. The only exception is a joint savings we each deposit $X in per month to cover home ownership-related expenses like repairs and appliances. Otherwise, I pay the mortgage on the 1st and all the other bills on the 15th based on my pay periods. He gives me roughly half of each. Whatever we have leftover is our own to do with as we please.
I make more so I basically cover all of our travel. I also have student loans and he doesn't so my making more isn't as significant in the end.
This really only works for us because we both have pretty similar attitudes towards finances. We keep our expenses low so we can spend money on "fun" stuff and neither one of us carries credit card debt.
In your case it seems like it's much more about coming up with a plan that makes him take responsibility rather than just an allocation of payments. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you can teach someone to be responsible.
ETA: I just saw the update. I definitely would not give him primary responsibility for anything attached to your name in any way.
We had a similar problem when we got married. We got ride of his credit cards and had his check direct deposited into an account with only my name on it. I gave him cash every month for fun money and when that was gone he was out of luck.
Once we got finances in order I slowly started giving him control back. 1 credit card with $500 limit that he was in charge of paying, name added to checking account,etc. He is now a responsible human being.
This seems more like a spending issue than anything else. I see how you want him to understand what bills need paying as a trigger to stop the spending on other things. But really, he has to stop spending on non-essentials. Does he think you (both of you) have the money to buy these things? Or does he not care about debt?
Really, it boils down to reality - how much money do you have coming in, what bills need to get paid every month, and how much you have left over. You do the heavy lifting on this. So, it’s pretty much done. THEN you agree to what you save and what ELSE you spend. This is the part he fails at.
If you can figure out why he thinks it’s okay to over-spend, then you can potentially stop it.
There's no "system" that will fix this; I'm glad that counseling is going to happen. If he won't go, I hope you go to a counselor on your own. Good luck.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, but the fact that he's taking money from your kids' piggy banks is a big red flag to me. What is he buying with this money? Do you know what he's spending it on? He has really damaged his relationship with his daughters and for what?
We have separate accounts, married 17 years, no kids. DH makes 50% more than I do. We each have our own credit cards for anything personal we want. We share a card, that he pays for, to buy groceries, "date nights", and gas. He pays all the utilities, I pay the mortgage. He pays for cars, I pay for vacations. He also tends to be the one who invests, I have money is a high interest account that can be used for "emergencies". We talk about money, what we have, what we spend, our joint goals, if any adjustments need to be made. Nothing is hidden, but we also don't look at each others cards or have to check in to ensure something is paid. This works really well for us.
Answered before the update - none of these divisions of bills matter given his lack of interest in and misuse of money. Good luck as you go through this.
It sounds like you need to take over all of the finances at this point until he can get himself under control.. I’m glad you guys are going to get some help.