One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
This is really beautifully stated and very painfully true. For good or for bad.
Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
This seems....a bit much? Eight other "regular" people got on that helicopter that morning, 5 of them adults with their own brains and critical thinking skills. To say his narcissism is what killed them all seems pretty heavy handed.
Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
This seems....a bit much? Eight other "regular" people got on that helicopter that morning, 5 of them adults with their own brains and critical thinking skills. To say his narcissism is what killed them all seems pretty heavy handed.
I agree. The other adults, pilot included, had their own minds to speak, and also the children didn’t have any say. I think this is too much to say his narcissism (does he have NPD?) killed him and eight other innocents.
What killed him was bad luck, bad weather and a bad decision (by who we do not know). We are all one bad decision away from death.
But I think her point is valid. Kobe was an extraordinary person. Normal people, normal minds, normal personalities are pretty much incapable of achieving what he did. I mean, look at our President. My personal opinion is that he is all that is evil and wrong but a normal mind would not be able to accomplish what he has, mobilizing the underbelly of America into a cult. There's a whole lot of people who think he is the greatest thing ever.
What killed him was bad luck, bad weather and a bad decision (by who we do not know). We are all one bad decision away from death.
But I think her point is valid. Kobe was an extraordinary person. Normal people, normal minds, normal personalities are pretty much incapable of achieving what he did. I mean, look at our President. My personal opinion is that he is all that is evil and wrong but a normal mind would not be able to accomplish what he has, mobilizing the underbelly of America into a cult. There's a whole lot of people who think he is the greatest thing ever.
I’m not comfortable saying Kobe is a narcissist. There are too many first hand accounts of positive encounters, as well as many that have been filmed. Trump, different story, he meets every criteria.
I definitely don’t think his ‘narcissism’ had anything to do with them crashing, lots of assumptions being made.
I wasn’t necessarily saying he was a narcissist, just the his mind is different. With greatness comes a burden. Oftentimes it’s magnified in our flaws. I don’t know him so I can’t speak to his personality. But I agree to accomplish what he did you need something extra (and I don’t mean talent). It’s something else.
What killed him was bad luck, bad weather and a bad decision (by who we do not know). We are all one bad decision away from death.
But I think her point is valid. Kobe was an extraordinary person. Normal people, normal minds, normal personalities are pretty much incapable of achieving what he did. I mean, look at our President. My personal opinion is that he is all that is evil and wrong but a normal mind would not be able to accomplish what he has, mobilizing the underbelly of America into a cult. There's a whole lot of people who think he is the greatest thing ever.
I’m not comfortable saying Kobe is a narcissist. There are too many first hand accounts of positive encounters, as well as many that have been filmed. Trump, different story, he meets every criteria.
I definitely don’t think his ‘narcissism’ had anything to do with them crashing, lots of assumptions being made.
I will be very interested to see who gave them clearance and why. Especially with LA grounding its fleet. That has to be the starting point. And people will trust when someone, in authority, says it is safe. No matter if they have misgivings.
I agree that the feelings are complicated and it’s all true. That he was a great father, a great athlete, and a rapist. Legacies are more complicated in this day and age. People are just so complex. One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
People who stand out for their extremes are often deeply flawed. What do we do with that as a society? I don’t have the answers, and I think it’s a personal thing. Anyone who disagrees with me probably has a valid point too. It’s tough to navigate. I think in 50 years this will feel clearer. We’re at a turning point in history, where our icons are held to higher standards of behavior than they ever have before, and as a result, we’re losing icons right and left.
He wasn't flying the helicopter. Nor did he make any one else on that helicopter get on it, or make the pilot fly.
I'm having a hard time understanding what information the pilot had that was so different than what other flight captains had. Maybe the fog increased after they were given the all clear to go up? I don't know.
But to say Kobe is responsible for 9 people dying because he is a narcissist is not cool. They were on their way to a young teenager basketball practice. I doubt they thought being late to it was worth risking their lives. I would think they didn't know how bad it was up in the air, and trusted the pilot/air traffic people's judgment.
I will be very interested to see who gave them clearance and why. Especially with LA grounding its fleet. That has to be the starting point. And people will trust when someone, in authority, says it is safe. No matter if they have misgivings.
One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior.
Huh? What kind of artist are you talking about? Last I checked being an artist doesn't mean you're a horrible person based on personal and professional experience.
I agree that the feelings are complicated and it’s all true. That he was a great father, a great athlete, and a rapist. Legacies are more complicated in this day and age. People are just so complex. One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
People who stand out for their extremes are often deeply flawed. What do we do with that as a society? I don’t have the answers, and I think it’s a personal thing. Anyone who disagrees with me probably has a valid point too. It’s tough to navigate. I think in 50 years this will feel clearer. We’re at a turning point in history, where our icons are held to higher standards of behavior than they ever have before, and as a result, we’re losing icons right and left.
I'm having a hard time understanding what information the pilot had that was so different than what other flight captains had. Maybe the fog increased after they were given the all clear to go up? I don't know.
I need to check with my dad about this specific case, but from my understanding in general the pilot makes the call. Obviously if you're a private pilot then it's definitely up to you, but if you work for a company there might be a chain of command you have to follow.
My dad is a pilot (former navy) and often cancels his flights "for fun" due to weather. He's very cautious. He likes to ask me a lot of health questions and is really interested in medicine so one day I jokingly said he should get a retirement job as a flight nurse in a helicopter. He said no way he would do that because he has read too many reports of pilots flying during very unfavorable conditions due to the weather and that's what caused them to crash.
Small airports don't all have air traffic control. My dad was telling me about another pilot at his local small airport who actually didn't have a radio system in his plane :/ So anyway, my point is, like I said I don't know the details of this case and haven't asked my dad about it, but if people are thinking you have to get permission from some special all encompassing organization to go in the air, that isn't always the case. The pilot can use their judgement based on the conditions and decide to fly even if other people have decided not to fly.
I agree that the feelings are complicated and it’s all true. That he was a great father, a great athlete, and a rapist. Legacies are more complicated in this day and age. People are just so complex. One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
People who stand out for their extremes are often deeply flawed. What do we do with that as a society? I don’t have the answers, and I think it’s a personal thing. Anyone who disagrees with me probably has a valid point too. It’s tough to navigate. I think in 50 years this will feel clearer. We’re at a turning point in history, where our icons are held to higher standards of behavior than they ever have before, and as a result, we’re losing icons right and left.
Rereading your post and raising my eyebrows and WTFing the bolded.
As the granddaughter of a successful artist, someone who has been in LTR with various kinds of artists, is good friends with many musicians, dancers, and artists, and has a son who will probably lean more artistic and free spirited, I take offense to your comments.
wanderingback--I didn't realize that you didn't need permission to be in air. I've been up in a former boss' cessna and remember him with a headset on ( this was 20 years ago) but don't remember more details. We took off from an airport and landed at one. I have just assumed if you are in the air, some kind of traffic controller/air space something had to know. But I'm realizing that's not true. Sea planes take off and land on a lake we frequent and I don't think anyone has every said anything about letting someone know.
My grandmother ( the artist) made my grandfather get rid of his personal plane when they had my mom. She knew it was nicknamed the widow maker and thought it was too dangerous for him to be up there. She also knew he was a bit of a risk taker, despite being a physician and law abiding person.
The news articles I read said it was up to the pilot to decide whether to fly depending on weather. They also said the weather was OK- ish where they started, but not where they ended up. While the pilot might feel some pressure not to say no to a celebrity that is their job/ responsibility if they think it is not safe. Knowing the commercial side of the industry- it is very much safety focused. Unfortunately small aircraft are not nearly as safe.
I’ve been reading the threads for a few days. I am definitely not for sweeping things under the rug, however this is a tragic accident involving far more people than just Kobe with a lot of different factors and nuances.
I agree that the feelings are complicated and it’s all true. That he was a great father, a great athlete, and a rapist. Legacies are more complicated in this day and age. People are just so complex. One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
People who stand out for their extremes are often deeply flawed. What do we do with that as a society? I don’t have the answers, and I think it’s a personal thing. Anyone who disagrees with me probably has a valid point too. It’s tough to navigate. I think in 50 years this will feel clearer. We’re at a turning point in history, where our icons are held to higher standards of behavior than they ever have before, and as a result, we’re losing icons right and left.
What on earth are you blathering on about? Now it’s his fault they all died, and law abiding citizens don’t have the capacity to be very creative?!
I agree that the feelings are complicated and it’s all true. That he was a great father, a great athlete, and a rapist. Legacies are more complicated in this day and age. People are just so complex. One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
People who stand out for their extremes are often deeply flawed. What do we do with that as a society? I don’t have the answers, and I think it’s a personal thing. Anyone who disagrees with me probably has a valid point too. It’s tough to navigate. I think in 50 years this will feel clearer. We’re at a turning point in history, where our icons are held to higher standards of behavior than they ever have before, and as a result, we’re losing icons right and left.
What on earth are you blathering on about? Now it’s his fault they all died, and law abiding citizens don’t have the capacity to be very creative?!
I agree that the feelings are complicated and it’s all true. That he was a great father, a great athlete, and a rapist. Legacies are more complicated in this day and age. People are just so complex. One of the hallmarks of being an artist is terrible behavior. It’s part of the way brains are wired. Law abiding, peaceful people are rarely creative enough to make something mind-blowing. With Kobe, his narcissism and drive to be greater than everyone is part of what pushed him to work towards athletic greatness. It also made him feel entitled to taking sex from someone no matter the cost to that person. Narcissism is the same trait that made him brave a helicopter ride in heavy fog and ultimately killed them all.
People who stand out for their extremes are often deeply flawed. What do we do with that as a society? I don’t have the answers, and I think it’s a personal thing. Anyone who disagrees with me probably has a valid point too. It’s tough to navigate. I think in 50 years this will feel clearer. We’re at a turning point in history, where our icons are held to higher standards of behavior than they ever have before, and as a result, we’re losing icons right and left.
Rereading your post and raising my eyebrows and WTFing the bolded.
As the granddaughter of a successful artist, someone who has been in LTR with various kinds of artists, is good friends with many musicians, dancers, and artists, and has a son who will probably lean more artistic and free spirited, I take offense to your comments.
Well I’ve never heard of this “famous” painter and I HAVE heard of Kobe Bryant so I guess the point is proven! Case closed on this one! And I’m sorry that you have an artistic son doomed to a life of crime. My daughter is very artistic too, so her future is also dark. Sometimes I think she’ll do great things, amazing things but then I remember .. it’s likely prison as the logical next step.
I need to stay out of Kobe Bryant threads as they appear to be magnets for lunacy
wanderingback, man do I wish the pilots of my dad's flight had your dad's sensibilities. When you have that many lives relying on you, it is not the time to be cavalier. And we trust pilots to be careful. To be cautious when the situation calls for it.
Post by wanderingback on Jan 29, 2020 18:53:15 GMT -5
Ok I actually went and read the rest of the rant, the fuck?
spearmintleaf, this will probably blow your non-artistic law abiding mind...
My SO and 2 of his close friends/collaborators that he works with regularly and they all make work that is "mind-blowing" (the friends are MacArthur geniuses) have never even smoked a cigarette or smoked weed! And 1 of them doesn't drink alcohol at all. Just straight up criminals I tell you!
Ok I actually went and read the rest of the rant, the fuck?
spearmintleaf, this will probably blow your non-artistic law abiding mind...
My SO and 2 of his close friends/collaborators that he works with regularly and they all make work that is "mind-blowing" (the friends are MacArthur geniuses) have never even smoked a cigarette or smoked weed! And 1 of them doesn't drink alcohol at all. Just straight up criminals I tell you!
Well this can’t be true. They are obviously moonlighting as serial killers and you just haven’t found out yet.
Ok I actually went and read the rest of the rant, the fuck?
spearmintleaf, this will probably blow your non-artistic law abiding mind...
My SO and 2 of his close friends/collaborators that he works with regularly and they all make work that is "mind-blowing" (the friends are MacArthur geniuses) have never even smoked a cigarette or smoked weed! And 1 of them doesn't drink alcohol at all. Just straight up criminals I tell you!
Well this can’t be true. They are obviously moonlighting as serial killers and you just haven’t found out yet.
Or maybe they're just total assholes but you haven't realized yet despite hanging with them regularly, since "terrible behavior" is also an absolute, irrefutable hallmark of genius. Like, sub-criminal yet still reprehensible.
Ok I actually went and read the rest of the rant, the fuck?
spearmintleaf, this will probably blow your non-artistic law abiding mind...
My SO and 2 of his close friends/collaborators that he works with regularly and they all make work that is "mind-blowing" (the friends are MacArthur geniuses) have never even smoked a cigarette or smoked weed! And 1 of them doesn't drink alcohol at all. Just straight up criminals I tell you!
. Don’t forget they’re all raging narcissists, too. Seriously, spearmintleaf, what the fuck was that???
Well this can’t be true. They are obviously moonlighting as serial killers and you just haven’t found out yet.
Or maybe they're just total assholes but you haven't realized yet despite hanging with them regularly, since "terrible behavior" is also an absolute, irrefutable hallmark of genius. Like, sub-criminal yet still reprehensible.
Ok I actually went and read the rest of the rant, the fuck?
spearmintleaf , this will probably blow your non-artistic law abiding mind...
My SO and 2 of his close friends/collaborators that he works with regularly and they all make work that is "mind-blowing" (the friends are MacArthur geniuses) have never even smoked a cigarette or smoked weed! And 1 of them doesn't drink alcohol at all. Just straight up criminals I tell you!
Well this can’t be true. They are obviously moonlighting as serial killers and you just haven’t found out yet.
My SO just left. So when he comes back I'll be sure to use my CSI and detective skills to look for any evidence on him and interrogate him. Not sure why I didn't think of that before this post!
Actually I should probably skip the drama and just break up with him since I've now been enlightened about him and his friend's terrible behavior.
wanderingback , man do I wish the pilots of my dad's flight had your dad's sensibilities. When you have that many lives relying on you, it is not the time to be cavalier. And we trust pilots to be careful. To be cautious when the situation calls for it.
wanderingback , man do I wish the pilots of my dad's flight had your dad's sensibilities. When you have that many lives relying on you, it is not the time to be cavalier. And we trust pilots to be careful. To be cautious when the situation calls for it.
I'm sorry
it's ok, I just appreciate hearing about good pilots and I think most are very good.
wanderingback --I didn't realize that you didn't need permission to be in air. I've been up in a former boss' cessna and remember him with a headset on ( this was 20 years ago) but don't remember more details. We took off from an airport and landed at one. I have just assumed if you are in the air, some kind of traffic controller/air space something had to know. But I'm realizing that's not true. Sea planes take off and land on a lake we frequent and I don't think anyone has every said anything about letting someone know.
My grandmother ( the artist) made my grandfather get rid of his personal plane when they had my mom. She knew it was nicknamed the widow maker and thought it was too dangerous for him to be up there. She also knew he was a bit of a risk taker, despite being a physician and law abiding person.
My Dad also got rid of his plane when my Mom was pregnant with me. He said after he found out my Mom was pregnant he was just too scared to fly his plane.