I’ve just spent a week in Australia and I’m currently in New Zealand. Both places have a large number of Chinese tourists. Other then the airports asking if we’ve been to China (same when we flew out of SFO) it’s been business as usual. I’m not concerned at all (naive of me??)
Did you see many wearing masks? As I said upthread it was well above 50% on my flights just over a week ago with nearly everyone not wearing masks being white tourists.
But, as our AQI is atrocious this time of year, we stockpile masks anyway and always have them on us. The government subsidizes them. Today we're #8 in the world for worst air. It can get a whole lot worse here. Last year we spent 2 weeks at the #1 spot. So I can't draw any impression on fears of the virus based on the masks in public, just on the airplanes.
I do know it's anticipated to have a huge impact on tourists. About 10 days ago the mayor of Phuket sent an email to basically their entire tourism industry (hotels, restaurants, guides, etc) warning to expect a sharp downturn.
I think we're up to 32 cases so far, no deaths. 22 still in hospital, 10 discharged. About 2/3 are Chinese, 1 of them an evacuee from the affected area, the rest Thai.
We had planned to visit Thailand March 21-28 for a diving trip. We are definitely rethinking it now. My DH is in immuno suppressant drugs for an auto-immune disorder that affects his lungs. Even without corona virus, heavy pollution can trigger an immune response that leads to pneumonia. We could also schedule our trip for the last week of Sept into early October. Would that be a better time of year for pollution?
Our air in Seoul has never been better in the winter than it is right now. Our prevailing winds this time of year come from China so we normally get a lot of their pollution. With so many of their factories shut down right now, you can see a noticeable drop in pollution.
Post by basilosaurus on Feb 10, 2020 6:11:17 GMT -5
4speedy , I'm in the north. Our air pollution is due to burning of the fields so it's definitely seasonal. The islands are not usually affected. I think their aqi hovers around 40 which is very safe, usually less than seoul. Yeah, I watch these things. Ex is in ROK, I've lived there, too.
Where for the dive trip? Out of phuket? Or koh tao? Or are you going to the eastern side? I've only dived andaman side.
ETA Today we're #19! I may go buck wild and not wear a mask on my walk to the store. J/K b/c I still have a URI, but I may take in a few gulps of non-mask air. No one wants to keep breathing their own breath. Nothing makes you realize you need some mouthwash like a mask!
Post by karinothing on Feb 10, 2020 8:17:36 GMT -5
The videos on the news this morning are alarming. Folks being dragged out of their houses kicking and screaming and put in metal boxes (I guess isolation boxes?!) on the back of trucks? I am not an alarmist about this stuff, but I worry about how the Chinese government is treated the infected (or suspected infected).
The number of people diagnosed on the cruise ship (Diamond Princess) in Japan has doubled today. A day ago there were roughly 60 passengers with CV. This morning they said that an additional 60 something passengers had been diagnosed.
Is that because they have been able to test more passengers, or could the disease be circulating through the air vents? Does anyone know if all passengers have been tested at least once at this point?
The number of people diagnosed on the cruise ship (Diamond Princess) in Japan has doubled today. A day ago there were roughly 60 passengers with CV. This morning they said that an additional 60 something passengers had been diagnosed.
Is that because they have been able to test more passengers, or could the disease be circulating through the air vents? Does anyone know if all passengers have been tested at least once at this point?
Maybe because the illness has progressed to a point now where it shows up on tests? I know if you test for the typical US flu “too early” it will show as negative but can become positive later.
I believe it is categorized as droplet transmission, not airborne, so it wouldn't circulate through air ventilation systems, you would have to be in close contact with an infected person/ their environment to be exposed. I doubt they have tested everyone on board, they probably are just testing as people develop symptoms, which can take up to 2 weeks. Unfortunately, if they are still interacting with each other, they can still be passing it around as newly infected but not yet very symptomatic people interact with not infected people, which is why the quarantine may be extended with each new diagnosis. But I guess it's better than letting them off to go infect people as they head home or back to work?? Rough situation, definitely.
The number of people diagnosed on the cruise ship (Diamond Princess) in Japan has doubled today. A day ago there were roughly 60 passengers with CV. This morning they said that an additional 60 something passengers had been diagnosed.
Is that because they have been able to test more passengers, or could the disease be circulating through the air vents? Does anyone know if all passengers have been tested at least once at this point?
I think the air is circulating through the vents, like in hotels. I read an article on Friday where a few of the passengers were desperately trying anything to get off, including paying for a private med evac helicopter service, but that both the Japanese and US governments won't allow it. One of the passengers said it was just a matter of time until everyone on the ship gets it because of the air circulation issue. The one couple trying to hard to get off are in their 70s and have other health issues, and they fear they won't survive if they get the virus.
ETA: this may not be how this virus works, but this is the gist of the article I read.
I believe it is categorized as droplet transmission, not airborne, so it wouldn't circulate through air ventilation systems, you would have to be in close contact with an infected person/ their environment to be exposed. I doubt they have tested everyone on board, they probably are just testing as people develop symptoms, which can take up to 2 weeks. Unfortunately, if they are still interacting with each other, they can still be passing it around as newly infected but not yet very symptomatic people interact with not infected people, which is why the quarantine may be extended with each new diagnosis. But I guess it's better than letting them off to go infect people as they head home or back to work?? Rough situation, definitely.
My understanding is that they are not interacting wi those outside of their cabin. They are restricted to their cabin and brought meals, etc. at a certain time they are brought up to the decks in small groups where they are told not to get within 6 feet of each other whole they walk around to get fresh air.
I just looked at CDC info, it sounds like they think it's probably droplet transmission, just like the flu and like other coronavirus have been in the past, but aren't saying that definitively. However, their recommendations for healthcare facilities are actually to use airborne precautions, aka negative pressure isolation rooms and n95 masks, like we would for tuberculosis or chicken pox. But that could be just an overly precautious recommendation if they don't know transmission method for sure. So actual mode of transmission appears to be still up in the air, so to speak.
I believe it is categorized as droplet transmission, not airborne, so it wouldn't circulate through air ventilation systems, you would have to be in close contact with an infected person/ their environment to be exposed. I doubt they have tested everyone on board, they probably are just testing as people develop symptoms, which can take up to 2 weeks. Unfortunately, if they are still interacting with each other, they can still be passing it around as newly infected but not yet very symptomatic people interact with not infected people, which is why the quarantine may be extended with each new diagnosis. But I guess it's better than letting them off to go infect people as they head home or back to work?? Rough situation, definitely.
My understanding is that they are not interacting wi those outside of their cabin. They are restricted to their cabin and brought meals, etc. at a certain time they are brought up to the decks in small groups where they are told not to get within 6 feet of each other whole they walk around to get fresh air.
I believe it is categorized as droplet transmission, not airborne, so it wouldn't circulate through air ventilation systems, you would have to be in close contact with an infected person/ their environment to be exposed. I doubt they have tested everyone on board, they probably are just testing as people develop symptoms, which can take up to 2 weeks. Unfortunately, if they are still interacting with each other, they can still be passing it around as newly infected but not yet very symptomatic people interact with not infected people, which is why the quarantine may be extended with each new diagnosis. But I guess it's better than letting them off to go infect people as they head home or back to work?? Rough situation, definitely.
My understanding is that they are not interacting wi those outside of their cabin. They are restricted to their cabin and brought meals, etc. at a certain time they are brought up to the decks in small groups where they are told not to get within 6 feet of each other whole they walk around to get fresh air.
God, I can't imagine how those people in rooms without windows or balconies are even functioning right now. I would be borderline hysterical with claustrophobia.
I don’t understand how the crew (Diamond Princess) stand much of a chance of avoiding infection. It sounds like they’re living on top of each other 24/7 and haven’t been trained appropriately in infection control.
“Crew members, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of losing their jobs, said they had been provided with masks, gloves and hand sanitizer, but given little training on how to reduce their chances of infection in a situation of this magnitude.”
I’m curious what types of masks the crew are using (simple versus N95) and what “little” training they’ve received in how to safely use and discard of personal protective equipment. Are all the gloves single use between rooms? Masks? Where is contaminated waste going? I hope they get some guidance...
The number of people diagnosed on the cruise ship (Diamond Princess) in Japan has doubled today. A day ago there were roughly 60 passengers with CV. This morning they said that an additional 60 something passengers had been diagnosed.
Is that because they have been able to test more passengers, or could the disease be circulating through the air vents? Does anyone know if all passengers have been tested at least once at this point?
According to the NYT article from today I linked above:
“Japan’s health ministry said on Monday that so far it had tested 439 people on the ship for the coronavirus. That leaves more than 3,000 who have not been tested, receiving only initial health checks.
Japanese officials have said they do not have the capacity to test everyone on the ship. But on Sunday, the health minister, Katsunobu Kato, said his ministry needed to consider whether it could do so”
From the Singapore hotel where he is believed to have picked up the virus during a conference, to a ski resort in the French Alps and a pub in his hometown of Hove on the southern coast of England, as well as the flights he took on his way back to Britain, the man came in contact with dozens of other people, potentially infecting them before he was diagnosed and hospitalized. Health officials are now hunting for them.
Already, five Britons who stayed with him at a chalet in the Alps have been diagnosed with the virus, including a 9-year-old boy. Another man who stayed at the resort was discovered infected after returning to his home on the Spanish island of Mallorca.
The apparent ease with which the virus spread raises concern that some of the 90 others who attended the conference may also have been infected and “may go on to initiate chains of infection in their home countries,’’ said Dr. Nathalie MacDermott, a clinical lecturer at King’s College London.
From the Singapore hotel where he is believed to have picked up the virus during a conference, to a ski resort in the French Alps and a pub in his hometown of Hove on the southern coast of England, as well as the flights he took on his way back to Britain, the man came in contact with dozens of other people, potentially infecting them before he was diagnosed and hospitalized. Health officials are now hunting for them.
Already, five Britons who stayed with him at a chalet in the Alps have been diagnosed with the virus, including a 9-year-old boy. Another man who stayed at the resort was discovered infected after returning to his home on the Spanish island of Mallorca.
The apparent ease with which the virus spread raises concern that some of the 90 others who attended the conference may also have been infected and “may go on to initiate chains of infection in their home countries,’’ said Dr. Nathalie MacDermott, a clinical lecturer at King’s College London.
Post by basilosaurus on Feb 10, 2020 20:46:23 GMT -5
Nerd self is watching diamond princess closely. As far as we know, it's still droplet, not air. Few diseases are air. That does not mean they do not spread quickly. Flu, for instance, is droplet.
If I were crew I'd probably jump ship at first chance. That's not a judgment about protocol or disease, but I'd be gone just on principle.
Bottom line: get your fucking flu shot. No, it won't help with this virus. Yes, it helps overall. Go get your damn flu shot. I had to go to a bajillion places to find mine. You can walk into CVS or your grocery store. Get your damn shot.
As far as spread, it seems person to person spread is still relatively low. Thailand has had only 1 case so far, and we're 2nd for overall numbers
Yep, along with Ericsson, LG, Nvidia, Intel and some other, smaller companies. Others are making it optional for employees to attend.
There are some industry analysts speculating that it could get cancelled altogether, which I don't think has ever happened. Some news reports are saying that the organizers will make a call by Friday.
They are not allowing travelers from Hubei in, or people have been in China within the 14 days before the show (everyone has to present their passport at the event check-in, which is SOP every year). Plus recommending no handshakes, and it sounds like there's going to be a ton of hand sanitizer stations and they will be frequently disinfecting things like rails, door handles, common touchscreens, etc. And they're doing temperature checks, for all the good that will do. They also doubled their on-site healthcare staff.
Apparently about 5-6% of attendees (about 5K-6K people) are usually from China. I am a bit skeptical about that number, though -- it seems very low to me.
I dunno. I don't want to minimize the severity of this for the people most impacted, but the number of sick people outside of China continues to be small. Hubei is really struggling, but it seems to me that the virus has so far been *mostly* successfully confined to the area where it began. I understand the risks associated with such a large event (100K+ people) and not wanting to potentially be the thing that tips this into a true pandemic ... but at this point I'm feeling pretty good about the effectiveness of the global containment measures in combination with what I can do myself. I'm going to stock up on hand sanitizer to bring along. I've already had both my flu shot and a mild case of the flu, so I feel like my immune system is primed. I happen to have a couple of N95 masks that I may wear on the plane/bring along just in case.
Anyway. So far my company is planning to still go, and most of the companies that we interact with are still going (minus a few of the biggies). The cancellations could snowball even more, but even if there's a drastic fall-off and only 50K people show up, it's still one of the biggest events of the year. I may end up with some on-site meetings that turn into conference calls, but I think it's still going to happen.
The videos on the news this morning are alarming. Folks being dragged out of their houses kicking and screaming and put in metal boxes (I guess isolation boxes?!) on the back of trucks? I am not an alarmist about this stuff, but I worry about how the Chinese government is treated the infected (or suspected infected).
We should worry. I understand this is a public health emergency but I'm not confident that the Chinese government is handling anything correctly considering it's the same government that's unabashedly interning Uyghurs in mass indoctrination camps.
The number of people diagnosed on the cruise ship (Diamond Princess) in Japan has doubled today. A day ago there were roughly 60 passengers with CV. This morning they said that an additional 60 something passengers had been diagnosed.
Is that because they have been able to test more passengers, or could the disease be circulating through the air vents? Does anyone know if all passengers have been tested at least once at this point?
They think there may be a longer than expected incubation period. Meaning these folks caught it 7+ days ago but are only seeing symptoms now. This means that temperature checks and other preventive tools they’re using in airports to prevent spread aren’t going to be as effective in keeping sick people from entering new countries.
Post by litebright on Feb 12, 2020 15:21:45 GMT -5
Welp. Mobile World Congress has officially been cancelled.
This conference has been running in Barcelona since 2006 and has been around in previous places/forms for decades. It has never been cancelled before.
PDQ, will delete personal info:
Have to say, I'm shocked. I thought they'd go ahead even if it was significantly smaller than usual.
I'm not particularly sad about getting to stay home instead of traveling for a solid week, but dang. This is a big blow to the industry. This is the show that sets the tone for the whole year. Things are going to be very different without it. Not to mention the impacts from the millions of dollars that companies are going to have to eat because the show was cancelled -- the booths, the demos, the travel, venues that got booked for ancillary events and won't refund, and so on.
It won't be terrible for the Nokias and Ericssons of the world, but there are a lot of small and mid-sized companies that invest a lot of money into this show because it's the one event of the year that you can count on seeing nearly all of your customers/potential customers. Certainly it'll hit my own company pretty hard, both in sunk travel costs and in lost revenue.
So... if I'm flying domestically this weekend with my two kids, we should wear masks...?
litebright , I can only imagine how painful that would be for smaller businesses. In my industry, we have a few opportunities a year to showcase what we do, and even missing one of them would have a dramatic impact.
So... if I'm flying domestically this weekend with my two kids, we should wear masks...?
litebright , I can only imagine how painful that would be for smaller businesses. In my industry, we have a few opportunities a year to showcase what we do, and even missing one of them would have a dramatic impact.
So... if I'm flying domestically this weekend with my two kids, we should wear masks...?
litebright, I can only imagine how painful that would be for smaller businesses. In my industry, we have a few opportunities a year to showcase what we do, and even missing one of them would have a dramatic impact.
Masks don’t do much if they’re the ones you buy at the store. I’ve been doing my usual hand washing and not touching my face when traveling and seeing patients (a lot of people from all over the world and cases in the region). Those are the current recommendations we’ve received from health authorities.