Twerks, quarantine edition

[covergirl82]

SIP and social distancing were so that hospitals wouldn't get overrun; this isn't going away, so we have to figure out how to continue with life. Large hospitals in my state (MI) are starting to lay off staff, so I think it's safe to say they have capacity. Also, the longer we SIP and social distance the more our immune systems will weaken. I think Indiana has a pretty good plan, but my dictator governor doesn't seem to want to be reasonable.

[mustardseed2007]

We need testing a contact tracing before opening up. Here in Texas we have neither. If anyone is in Dallas - Tarrant County is doing the best out of all of them. Harris County is a shit show. That's from an industry perspective.

Meanwhile, people in my neighborhood are mad that the neighborhood pool remains closed and wants to be able to do swim meets so we can all have herd immunity. Literally that was said today. I hate people.

It's so interesting those of you that are in states who are taking this super seriously and have very low case count, and us in states where we have a growing case count, low testing and no tracing, and yet are opening up. I mean, it's been said on here before but there has to be a middle ground.

[erbear]

We can't go to anything "normal" until 1) testing is widely available, 2) numbers of new cases are going down, 3) contact tracing and resources are available to all cities and 4) governments (local, state and federal) start reporting accurately. Just because you don't know someone who got sick or died doesn't mean what's happening in NYC can't happen anywhere.

[sdlaura]

erbear I agree with most of your criteria, but I think we should be looking more at number of deaths and hospitalizations going down, with a greater weight than number of cases going down - because as we move toward more and more testing (in much of California you can now get tested even with no symptoms), the number of positive cases is going to continue to go up because even asymptomatic people will now be counted. Which is a good thing to know, so we can get more accurate info on how many people are symptomatic vs asymptomatic, and a better idea of what the true hospitalization and death rates are, etc.

I forget - what state/region are you located in?

[k3am]

Do things have to go back to normal? No. I don’t think anyone here is advocating going back to “normal” immediately. But I think there’s a happy spot between “normal” and sheltering at home with approval to play “singles volleyball.”

[mommyatty]

May 3, 2020 17:27:05 GMT -5 covergirl82 said:

SIP and social distancing were so that hospitals wouldn't get overrun; this isn't going away, so we have to figure out how to continue with life. Large hospitals in my state (MI) are starting to lay off staff, so I think it's safe to say they have capacity. Also, the longer we SIP and social distance the more our immune systems will weaken. I think Indiana has a pretty good plan, but my dictator governor doesn't seem to want to be reasonable.

They’re laying off staff that aren’t qualified to work in an ICU and support functions that aren’t related to Covid treatment. The two things have nothing to do with each other. With that being said, I think allowing elective procedures should open up. That’s where hospitals make their money. They’re laying off staff because they don’t have money to pay staff.

[mommyatty]

mustardseed2007- I’m in Tarrant County. After what I saw this weekend, our numbers are going to explode. People think the crisis is over because stores are open. I did curbside pickup at Joann Fabric this Sunday. The parking lot was packed, and they had let everyone in so they were WAY OVER 25% capacity. For comparison, when the county was shutting them down and they were trying to prove they were not bad actors, half a parking lot resulted in a socially distanced line that stretched almost a block. My MIL went to a nursery to buy flowers and said it was totally packed, people were standing shoulder to shoulder chatting, and only 2 other people were wearing masks. She got out as quickly as she could.

So I now know the reason it’s all or nothing is because most people are irresponsible effing morons who are totally selfish and probably should die. I’m rethinking whether wiping out 25% of the population would really be so bad. Maybe those of us with brains who continue to social distance will survive and the rest can die. If they wouldn’t take anyone else out with them, I would be totally fine with that.

[waverly]

I had a ton of nightmares last night. Apparently losing my kids at a pool is a favorite. I remember having that one when pregnant with DD. Luckily my kids are older and can swim (and that was true in my dream). But when I went to find them it turned into a market, so I said come on brain wake me up here you changed the location. So I woke up.

Went back to sleep, and my org had opened up and it was like a pub crawl. I blame this thread. I yelled at my boss and a bunch of other people who were running and had blue sticks (pub crawl memorabilia?), no idea where the blue sticks came from. It’s official my boss needs a plan. He’s behind on this everyone else has one by now. We have a month but that’s turning into 3 weeks then 2 weeks.... It would be great to have leadership say hey this is what we are doing rather than department heads especially when that means people are staggering shifts and not working all their hours onsite.

[rere]

I am just super disappointed in the US totally. Majority of people are great, normal, brain functioning people. But there are complete idiots out there. This whole, you can't tell me what to do and I won't get a mask and a vaccine will just microchip you to be controlled by the government, and this is a plot by whichever political party, is exhausting. I work in tobacco control, during my normal job, and this 2 year old attitude of you can't tell me what to do and if it hurts someone else, they can just change their behavior is not new.

Each time I got on FaceBook this weekend, I snoozed or unfollowed several people. I am really thinking less of a lot of people I actually know in real life. I discussed with DH this weekend I need to quit saying uneducated when talking about people. It is not a formal education issue. It is an unwilling to learn and grow and look at any ideas that don't fit with your own and a rigidity to even consider ideas. Also an unwillingness to actually check sources of the news you are reading, or headlines in most cases.

[waverly]

Yes so many idiots in Facebook (and real life). I purged my friend list years ago. But occasionally I get sucked into a friends post where it’s been made public or it’s a friend of a friend, and they want to go down in flames fighting with no logic whatsoever. It literally doesn’t make sense or they just don’t care about anyone else but themselves.

[mustardseed2007]

mommyatty, I've been having a lot of thoughts like that too. Which is crazy I mean....I don't normally think this way.

I'm sure you've seen the post:

Some people want to stay home...that's ok
Some people want to go out....that's ok
Some people want to wear masks...that's ok

I get the sentiment but actually.... no, no its not ok. It's not a "you do you" situation. When people don't vaccinate they put everyone else at risk. When people don't socially distance and don't take care, then it impacts the rest of us.

[librarychica]

waverly I had a dream over the weekend that my family and I were at an arcade and having a great time when I realized we were AT AN ARCADE FOR GOD’S SAKE and hadn’t washed our hands in HOURS. H had one that he won big in a casino but couldn’t figure out how to leave with the money without being robbed. Last night I had a dream that I attended several meetings on the toilet. Not even a virtual meeting, there was suddenly a toilet in my boss’ office.

It’s the time for anxiety dreams evidently.

[sdlaura]

Here people are still super duper careful, and I don’t think that will change when SIP lifts. A neighbor had an Italian ice truck at her house yesterday and invited the neighbors. Everyone stood at least 10 feet apart, across the street, while waiting in line, and every person (including toddlers) was wearing a mask. There’s also someone sitting at the front of every open store to make sure everyone is wearing a mask.

And someone posted on next door over the weekend, publicly shaming people over having an ‘illegal block party.’ He posted a picture, and it was a picture of probably 10 neighbors very spaced out, some speaking to each other from across the street. I’ve seen pictures of egregious violations of social distancing, and it was nothing at all like that. So people are over the top in the other direction here, vs what I see described elsewhere.

For me the mask thing is like vaccinations. You don’t vaccinate your kids, you don’t get to come to public school. You don’t wear a mask, you don’t get to come to stores/near other people. If you just stay in your house -fine, you don’t have to wear a mask.

[mae0111]

I'm generally of the opinion that the less government the better, so this whole thing has been a struggle for me because I tend to use common sense. For example, the public beaches have been closed. Which seems silly here in New England, where it's really too cold to be super crowded yet. The beach I usually walk is huge when the tide is out, so that's when we would go before the closure. If you're stupid and go at high tide when there is almost no beach... well, then you're stupid.

There's a park in my town that hasn't closed, so it's packed every hour of every day. So we are smart and... we don't go.

But I was out walking yesterday on a normally not crowded street. I forgot my mask (which are not required when outside right now, just for stores, etc. Regulation goes into effect on Wednesday here for mask at all times). A woman approached me, so I moved out of her way, almost into the woods to walk. She didn't move at all, and instead screamed at me for not wearing a mask. Who is more wrong?

I wish they could figure out a way to open up gradually. So many small businesses have been destroyed. It will take years for many industries and sectors to come back. The mental health of many seniors is deteriorating quickly, and in many cases, followed by physical health. My 89 year old uncle is of relatively sound mind, and he is literally locked in his room at an assisted living facility with a guard on the floor. He is used to daily walks outside, tons of activities, and dining with his girlfriend who lives 2 doors down. Now he's in complete isolation. Is that better than a COVID diagnosis?

In some cases, I agree with a little of the "you do you". My family is choosing to break the quarantine to see my dad and get him outside daily. If I don't go, he will sit in his house all day alone. He's a little unsteady on his feet, so won't walk alone, and my mom is working outside the home full time. So in that case, I'm doing me. He's choosing to do little unnecessary errands (while wearing a mask) because he watched his mom's mental decline when she was forced to become a shut in due to physical limitations.

I believe that the mortality numbers are being inflated. Most hospitals are admitting that they're counting any questionable death as a COVID death. I believe that this virus is horrible, but I also know that we need immunity... so we need to be exposed... and we can't get exposed while shut in... and that most people won't even get sick once exposed... At some point, we need to open up before the economy is completely destroyed.

[waverly]

Hang in there everyone. We will open up again. It’s not quite time, but it will be. China opened up slowly. Italy and Spain are slowly opening. Just a few more weeks. We are almost to our peak in our state. I expect a plateau for 1-2 weeks and slowly going down. New York is going down in cases. Every state is different, so I’m only really following mine and a couple others.

[mellym]

I'm cautiously optimistic about DD1's asthma and allergies having protective benefits if she gets Covid after this study.

www.med.wisc.edu/news-and-events/2020/april/allergies-asthma-may-reduce-covid-19-risk-/?fbclid=IwAR21MRmlTnMeatLCzUbTM_PYCBub_HWmbEAY-g2PQ4m5G5eHjy12uUXjs8M

People here are very impatient. In the grand scheme of things, what is another three weeks? I think it's the fear that our order will be extended into the summer. Our state supreme court is hearing arguments tomorrow and is supposed to decide this week on whether or not they'll overturn the Gov order. We have some major outbreaks in manufacturing facilities coming to light in the past week so it will be interesting to see what they will do. The sentiment is they will follow party lines and overturn the order.

[sdlaura]

mae0111 I don’t know what your mask guidelines are, but ours are that a mask is required if you’ll be in a store or within six feet of others. So I don’t wear one while exercising in the neighborhood. That woman who yelled at you was the one in the wrong.

[mae0111]

May 4, 2020 10:56:08 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

mae0111 I don’t know what your mask guidelines are, but ours are that a mask is required if you’ll be in a store or within six feet of others. So I don’t wear one while exercising in the neighborhood. That woman who yelled at you was the one in the wrong.

Starting on Wednesday 5/6, you're supposed to wear one if within 6 ft of others.  I was with my mom when the woman yelled.  My mom yelled back, "Not yet.  Shut up and stay home."


My mom is about 4'11" and argues with everyone.  Crazy trumps size, always.

[rere]

May 4, 2020 10:56:08 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

mae0111 I don’t know what your mask guidelines are, but ours are that a mask is required if you’ll be in a store or within six feet of others. So I don’t wear one while exercising in the neighborhood. That woman who yelled at you was the one in the wrong.

In my redneck part of the world you may have someone yell at you for wearing a mask, because you a being controlled by the government.

[twinmomma]

May 4, 2020 11:36:01 GMT -5 rere said:

May 4, 2020 10:56:08 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

mae0111 I don’t know what your mask guidelines are, but ours are that a mask is required if you’ll be in a store or within six feet of others. So I don’t wear one while exercising in the neighborhood. That woman who yelled at you was the one in the wrong.

In my redneck part of the world you may have someone yell at you for wearing a mask, because you a being controlled by the government.

Same! And I'm right next door to mae0111 - the redneck line gets drawn hard and fast between states! LOL

[mommyatty]

mae0111- you’re flat wrong on the mortality rates. They can only code it as Covid if there’s a positive test. Even if the doc believes it was Covid, they can’t code it that way without a positive test. And that’s federal, not state by state. Also, that’s different from every other disease and disorder. A doc can say they suspect flu and it’s coded as flu. They can code as heart attack if they believe it’s heart attack. But they can only code as Covid with a positive test. So our mortality rates are wrong but it’s because they are way low.

Here’s an example. My 31 year old niece died in February in Washington state after several weeks of flu-like symptoms but negative flu tests. She had a compromised immune system. She died unexpectedly in her sleep. And it’s been coded as cardiac arrest. Her mom is calling weekly asking them to test her samples for Covid. They haven’t. And they don’t know when they’ll get around to it, if ever, even though the ME agrees that it was almost certainly Covid. She’s not coded as a Covid death but i would bet a thousand dollars she died of Covid. In a rural Washington County that has relatively low official Covid numbers, btw.

[sdlaura]

mommyatty that’s surprising that they won’t test for that in Washington state! In California they are actively looking for early cases that weren’t initially classified as COVID deaths. Another thing that’s so different between states.

[mae0111]

mommyatty - they can code with a positive COVID test, but here’s another example... someone at my aunt’s assisted living facility fell. She was tested when she got to the hospital and was COVID positive, but 100% asymptomatic. If she, say, developed and threw a clot from her fall and died, she would be listed as a COVID death.

If an end-stage lung cancer patient dies after a positive COVID test - COVID death.

If someone had a “widow maker” blockage and a massive heart attack with a positive COVID test - COVID.

Hospitals and officials have confirmed this methodology.

I’m certain cases were under reported at the beginning, and perhaps that has continued in certain areas of the country. Around here, where we are a hot spot anything possibly COVID-related is a COVID death.


ETA: this is the CDC's guideline for reporting COVID deaths: www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

I'm not a medical professional, but my interpretation is that if COVID is present, it should be reported as a cause, saving trauma.  So a blood clot can occur in COVID or with an elderly person who took a fall - COVID is on the certificate, possibly as a secondary cause.  And I believe whether listed as primary or secondary, if it's listed as a cause, it's counted as a COVID death.

[k3am]

mommyatty, as of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths.

[erbear]

May 3, 2020 22:44:15 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

erbear I agree with most of your criteria, but I think we should be looking more at number of deaths and hospitalizations going down, with a greater weight than number of cases going down - because as we move toward more and more testing (in much of California you can now get tested even with no symptoms), the number of positive cases is going to continue to go up because even asymptomatic people will now be counted. Which is a good thing to know, so we can get more accurate info on how many people are symptomatic vs asymptomatic, and a better idea of what the true hospitalization and death rates are, etc.

I forget - what state/region are you located in?

Philadelphia. Being in a big city vs a rural or suburban part of the country is scary when it comes to this stuff. There is no way to avoid people, surfaces, etc. here. There are just so.many.people.

[shakinros]

erbear oh hey neighbor! Yeah I don’t expect to see my office for a long, long time still.

[erbear]

May 4, 2020 20:07:06 GMT -5 shakinros said:

erbear oh hey neighbor! Yeah I don’t expect to see my office for a long, long time still.

not a chance. The city isn't opening for a while, nor should it.