mommyatty.. part of the problem is the concept of "science based." You can make a science based argument for why we should reopen. Or why we should stay home. And the science-based answers aren't consistent as the knowledge base evolves and more factors get added into the equation.
As it stands.. we are heavily leaning towards pulling DD and putting her in private - which makes me really sad, since we LOVE her school. It may well still be a fully or hybrid distance learning environment. But at least in private school, they have to get their shit together or they lose students. As opposed to our district that has basically said they're planning to make plans for what fall looks like... but that they have a $15MM deficit going into the year, so they can't really spend any money on the problem.
I have several options but I just added private to my list. The only one that might work is Montessori. The Catholic ones prefer us to belong to the Parrish.
k3am- it would make more sense to say “Schools will open if the following parameters are met: #of tests per week, x% positive rate or below, hospital capacity at or below x%, cases and hospital admissions at x” I would be much more comfortable. I mean, we all live with some level of risk, always. But can’t we quantify what that risk ought to look like?
And yeah, the governor has decreed that localities cannot make any decisions related to Covid. Dallas County, for example, where cases and hospitalizations are climbing fast, isn’t allowed to say everyone must wear masks. He capitulated that they can say businesses must require patrons and employees to wear masks or they can be fined, but individuals cannot be. He said he would allow local school districts to set their own levels of protection, but what that means practically is the first time a white kid is sent home for not following protocols, he will change his order to say while they can set parameters, they can’t actually enforce them.
mommyatty, I think that approach would make sense - but the issue is how local to make it. Like our 3 million+ person County would have a harder time meeting parameters than our small district/local hospital, since we have super low positivity rates and zero deaths. So I still think there are still logistical issues with that approach.
I also think many blue state governors are hiding behind ‘science based.’ There’s no science based argument for closing the paint and toy aisle at the store but keeping other aisles open. I prefer that approach to the alternative of reopening everything super fast, but I wish policymakers would just acknowledge that the science is still incomplete.
mommyatty, I think that approach would make sense - but the issue is how local to make it. Like our 3 million+ person County would have a harder time meeting parameters than our small district/local hospital, since we have super low positivity rates and zero deaths. So I still think there are still logistical issues with that approach.
I also think many blue state governors are hiding behind ‘science based.’ There’s no science based argument for closing the paint and toy aisle at the store but keeping other aisles open. I prefer that approach to the alternative of reopening everything super fast, but I wish policymakers would just acknowledge that the science is still incomplete.
Yes. We are having a hard time meeting our required # of tests per week.. because people aren’t getting tested. DS’s doc told us that one symptom for any amount of time was enough to qualify for a test, but people weren’t coming in for testing. So we don’t meet that metric.
A local school district just announced that fall semester will be 100% online.
Signed, FML
OMFG
That is so crazy. Here (MN) our districts are told to prepare for full time distance learning, full time in person and a hybrid/50/50. Our department of Ed and health department will release more guidance at the end of July.
Our superintendent (2nd largest district in the state) says that we will do some form of distance learning. I’m hoping we are 2 days in person and 2 days at home. I can’t imagine living like this for another year.
I also think many blue state governors are hiding behind ‘science based.’ There’s no science based argument for closing the paint and toy aisle at the store but keeping other aisles open. I prefer that approach to the alternative of reopening everything super fast, but I wish policymakers would just acknowledge that the science is still incomplete.
They closed the aisles because people complained that stores that sold food got to sell other stuff, too. It goes back to the “middle ground” thing. People think if any store is open, every store needs to be open.
And we know how disease spreads. Germ theory isn’t new. But people don’t want to say, “Okay, in order for us to not have to stay at home, we are going to all have to agree to some hygiene measures that aren’t necessary during a normal, non-pandemic time. We are going to need to wear masks. We are going to need to not send our kid with a cough to school, even if we just know it’s allergies. We are going to need to stay more than 6 feet from others to the maximum extent possible.” But we can’t be trusted to be that courteous for a few months. It’s maddening. And while blue state governors are using science but are probably going further than they need to, red state governors are pretending science is a vast left-wing conspiracy. That scientists have just be sitting around for YEARS figuring out how to tank the economy. People here honest to God think this is all made up. And they use “the science is incomplete” as a reason to ignore the common sense things that do work to limit spread of the disease.
Texas is not known for science based in general, right? I don’t think we have a # of tests required. We have a number that we can test for example they wanted to test 10,000 a day. But if 10,000 don’t come in it doesn’t hurt us. They just use the percent positive out of the number that came in. We went up a little yesterday, so I’m hoping it is the spiky descent in the way down instead our number going up. All indicators are OK for going into phase 4 on June 26 which means schools can open. But the governor has signed an elearning bill allowing for days to be counted for next year meaning they are thinking some elearning maybe.... I wish they would just tell us. The limbo is bad.
waverly, no, but that’s true of every deep red state. Arkansas, Alabama, Nebraska, Mississippi, even Florida are all as bad. We have zero targets that we have to hit to get to a next phase of reopening. We are reopening based on how many checks which industries are writing to Republicans.
Well today and yesterday were bad days. My DD decided that she can't sleep by herself. I'm exhausted and I can't take a break. My DS is being a butt with the I want I want I want and I can't take it.
I'm angry at my kids angry at DH and angry at myself. I went to my mom's today. Swam with the kids this morning and then left them there to nap.
Mom is bringing DS back this afternoon and said she would keep DD tonight so I can actually get more than 3 hours of sleep.
I have issues with my mom at times, but right now I am so grateful that she is nearby and willing to help. Really not sure how i would have made it through this year without her.
‘And while blue state governors are using science but are probably going further than they need to, red state governors are pretending science is a vast left-wing conspiracy.’
I wish there were more of a middle ground.
xctsclrx I’m sorry - it really sucks not getting sleep. My sleep schedule is similar, but I still have the postpartum hormones to carry me through. I also definitely appreciate my parents more given their help with my kids!
I also think many blue state governors are hiding behind ‘science based.’ There’s no science based argument for closing the paint and toy aisle at the store but keeping other aisles open. I prefer that approach to the alternative of reopening everything super fast, but I wish policymakers would just acknowledge that the science is still incomplete.
They closed the aisles because people complained that stores that sold food got to sell other stuff, too. It goes back to the “middle ground” thing. People think if any store is open, every store needs to be open.
And we know how disease spreads. Germ theory isn’t new. But people don’t want to say, “Okay, in order for us to not have to stay at home, we are going to all have to agree to some hygiene measures that aren’t necessary during a normal, non-pandemic time. We are going to need to wear masks. We are going to need to not send our kid with a cough to school, even if we just know it’s allergies. We are going to need to stay more than 6 feet from others to the maximum extent possible.” But we can’t be trusted to be that courteous for a few months. It’s maddening. And while blue state governors are using science but are probably going further than they need to, red state governors are pretending science is a vast left-wing conspiracy. That scientists have just be sitting around for YEARS figuring out how to tank the economy. People here honest to God think this is all made up. And they use “the science is incomplete” as a reason to ignore the common sense things that do work to limit spread of the disease.
This all day. This is actually the reason schools won't commit to opening in the fall. Because we cannot trust parents not to lie about their behaviors. We know people aren't social distancing correctly. We know people aren't wearing masks. We know parents dose their kids up with Tylenol and send them to school when they have fevers. And that is deadly in a viral pandemic. If people weren't so selfish about what they wanted to do, all of this would be better managed but here we are.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
mommyatty I’m also in a hot spot red state (SC) and I agree with everything you said.
This whole thing is a textbook example of why we need government to intervene. Conservatives who are all “don’t tread on me” and fearful of big government telling individuals to wear masks are at fault, IMO.
But I think the school discussion is a bit more nuanced than that. If the health department says desks have to be 6 feet apart then there simply isn’t room. Building is one. Money is another.
However I know schools in areas where the virus has receded have done 3 feet apart with no increase in cases, masked. That could potentially get more students in the building. Other schools have made it work and we need to study those. Other schools have had cases and shut down again- we need to be prepared for that as well.
The way parents drop off and pick up is a problem here. That could be rethought. Bussing could be masked and you sit with your siblings or adjustments made. More busses equal more money but some funds could maybe be moved over from programs that can’t run safely.
To just say total elearning might be missing an opportunity to tweak some of the problem areas before there was a pandemic. It’s a total new way of thinking about everything. It’s growing pains, but every business and industry is going through this. We’ve totally rethought a lot of things in my organization. There are a lot of Financial increases but we are coding them Covid-19 to see if we can get some federal financial support for them.
But to just reopen with no safety precautious is obviously foolish as well. Not suggesting that, but this is ongoing and we have to learn how to decrease the disease as much as possible without continuing lockdowns in places where cases are decreasing. In places where cases are increasing that is a whole other conversation because you have to get it under control.
And to clarify, I think opening schools, especially elementary schools, is one of the lower risk activities. In the Netherlands, they’ve opened schools very successfully, and the key isn’t keeping kids away from kids. It’s keeping adults away from kids. Kids aren’t asked to distance from each other, but there’s a box the teacher stays in, and kids aren’t allowed to enter that box. The teachers have guidelines about what situations warrant getting close to kids, like comforting a crying child or dealing with a fight. They have a rule that no parents can enter the gates. Kids are dropped at the gate and go to the playground. They wash hands as soon as they enter the school.
I think the more difficult conversation is around high schoolers. Around here, we are seeing a ton of cases among high school athletes. Mostly asymptotic, luckily, but the numbers are really high. But they are also mostly football players practicing indoors and breathing heavily on each other while also touching during drills, so that’s not exactly like sitting in English class.
And again, this all goes back to the need for science to lead these discussions. We need to be looking at countries that have successfully reopened, listen to how they made their decisions, learn what the outcomes are, and then make our decisions in an informed manner. But it appears that’s too much to hope for.
And to clarify, I think opening schools, especially elementary schools, is one of the lower risk activities. In the Netherlands, they’ve opened schools very successfully, and the key isn’t keeping kids away from kids. It’s keeping adults away from kids. Kids aren’t asked to distance from each other, but there’s a box the teacher stays in, and kids aren’t allowed to enter that box. The teachers have guidelines about what situations warrant getting close to kids, like comforting a crying child or dealing with a fight. They have a rule that no parents can enter the gates. Kids are dropped at the gate and go to the playground. They wash hands as soon as they enter the school.
I think the more difficult conversation is around high schoolers. Around here, we are seeing a ton of cases among high school athletes. Mostly asymptotic, luckily, but the numbers are really high. But they are also mostly football players practicing indoors and breathing heavily on each other while also touching during drills, so that’s not exactly like sitting in English class.
And again, this all goes back to the need for science to lead these discussions. We need to be looking at countries that have successfully reopened, listen to how they made their decisions, learn what the outcomes are, and then make our decisions in an informed manner. But it appears that’s too much to hope for.
I agree with you! It’s fascinating to read the theories behind why kids aren’t getting this as much as adults (Ie having been more recently vaccinated for MMR etc). Our summer camp finished week 1 - they changed drop off /pick up procedures - no parents allowed in the building, kids can’t hug each other etc but they can play together without being 6 feet apart. It’ll be interesting to see how the summer goes.
My H had a covid test last week as a pre-req for knee surgery next week. It was negative. Two weeks ago he went to Minneapolis to help clean up after the rioting and destruction. He wore a mask and said the majority of people there had masks on. It would have been a prime place for community spread but our numbers are going down.
I know that there is certainly a risk with opening the schools, but I’m really concerned about the mental health of the kids. The isolation takes a huge toll.
Honestly, neither of my kids had a great year at school. You all know about DD1’s struggles socially with her bully, but her teachers were great - nurturing and both were calming influences. DD2’s teacher was... not. She was sarcastic and cutting, and clearly favored the boys. And I didn’t realize it was happening until I witnessed it on zoom calls.
All this to say that a break was welcomed in our house... but after a while, it was clearly taking its toll on the kids. They missed their friends. Zoom calls weren’t enough.
I don’t know how to address middle and high schoolers that change classes. In our little school, where all of the kids are in the same level, it would be easy to say 6th grade has ELA this week, 7th has Math, 8th has Science, and rotate that way - but obviously that wouldn’t work everywhere. But get the elementary kids back.
And erbear - I get what you’re saying with the parents dosing kids. That makes me nuts. There is a kid in DD1’s class that would routinely come to school with fevers after vomiting all night, and there was NO REASON for it based on her parents’ jobs. I’m happy she’s leaving the school. In private, you can boot the kids out or transition them to 100% distance learning. Definitely more complicated in public.
I know that there is certainly a risk with opening the schools, but I’m really concerned about the mental health of the kids. The isolation takes a huge toll.
Honestly, neither of my kids had a great year at school. You all know about DD1’s struggles socially with her bully, but her teachers were great - nurturing and both were calming influences. DD2’s teacher was... not. She was sarcastic and cutting, and clearly favored the boys. And I didn’t realize it was happening until I witnessed it on zoom calls.
All this to say that a break was welcomed in our house... but after a while, it was clearly taking its toll on the kids. They missed their friends. Zoom calls weren’t enough.
I don’t know how to address middle and high schoolers that change classes. In our little school, where all of the kids are in the same level, it would be easy to say 6th grade has ELA this week, 7th has Math, 8th has Science, and rotate that way - but obviously that wouldn’t work everywhere. But get the elementary kids back.
And erbear - I get what you’re saying with the parents dosing kids. That makes me nuts. There is a kid in DD1’s class that would routinely come to school with fevers after vomiting all night, and there was NO REASON for it based on her parents’ jobs. I’m happy she’s leaving the school. In private, you can boot the kids out or transition them to 100% distance learning. Definitely more complicated in public.
Isolation has been a huge struggle for DD1. She’s been irritable, not sleeping, lots of tantrums. Things have shifted to being so much better since she started summer camp and is with her friends.
The best sports are ones where people can be outside and somewhat away from each other. That’s why tennis and golf are allowed here outside only.
It’s Texas, football is like a religion, but when you are in the news for an outbreak and your players are sick it’s bad news for everybody.
There’s more to it than “football’s a religion”. I’m in CA and am a high school teacher. I have a student who has good grades and has been working his butt off for years to get a football scholarship. Sports are so often a way to pay for education and to help students avoid generational poverty. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s more complicated than it seems.
mommyatty , I think that approach would make sense - but the issue is how local to make it. Like our 3 million+ person County would have a harder time meeting parameters than our small district/local hospital, since we have super low positivity rates and zero deaths. So I still think there are still logistical issues with that approach.
I also think many blue state governors are hiding behind ‘science based.’ There’s no science based argument for closing the paint and toy aisle at the store but keeping other aisles open. I prefer that approach to the alternative of reopening everything super fast, but I wish policymakers would just acknowledge that the science is still incomplete.
Isn't the that more about keep food stores open but discouraging folks from buying non-essential items and spending even more time in the store? Buying food isn't perfectly safe but it required since delivery isn't an option for a lot of folks.
I think in general NY is doing well with its plan. I have disagreed with some specific decisions but I think having zones and targets is working. It was hard to hold out until the numbers dropped sufficiently but NY currently has the lowest transmission rate in the country believe. And that is with the subways continuing to run. I hope we can hold it down with playgrounds and camps opening but we'll just have to see.
hocus2, yes, I can see reasons for these decisions based around fairness, access, etc - but my point was that a person is making a decision that say, cosmetics are essential but toys are not, or that ice cream shops are essential while car dealerships are not - or whatever. There are many, many decisions that have been made that are not based directly on scientific knowledge/research. They’re policy choices. Overall I’m completely thrilled to live in a state where policy makers believe that science is real vs the alternative. But the science that we know doesn’t directly relate to many of the restrictions.
I can understand how people in more restrictive states are getting annoyed over how arbitrary some of the decisions have been, even if they support the overall caution. And I also get people in totally open states being scared about what that means for infection rates. My thought was just chalking every choice up to science isn’t that accurate. Even saying something like ‘we’re setting restrictions so the disease has fewer opportunities to spread based on what we know so far’ or ‘we’re restricting most businesses while leaving some open that aren’t really essential so we don’t kill the economy even further and people don’t go completely insane’ or whatever vs the drumbeat of ‘science science science.’ I have no idea if this makes sense at all to anyone but me
The best sports are ones where people can be outside and somewhat away from each other. That’s why tennis and golf are allowed here outside only.
It’s Texas, football is like a religion, but when you are in the news for an outbreak and your players are sick it’s bad news for everybody.
There’s more to it than “football’s a religion”. I’m in CA and am a high school teacher. I have a student who has good grades and has been working his butt off for years to get a football scholarship. Sports are so often a way to pay for education and to help students avoid generational poverty. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s more complicated than it seems.
Everything about Covid is more complicated than it seems.
I think there might be many schools not playing football this fall. College recruiters are going to have to really rethink their recruiting strategy.