Post by starburst604 on May 12, 2023 16:22:07 GMT -5
I’d have paid because the woman may face some consequence for not getting the payment and it’s $25, not $100. I’m also non-confrontational. Then I’d never go back.
Oof, yeah sent makes a good point. And I do remember when I lived in Iowa and my sister lived in Chicago, she got her nails done all the time and I was like "I can't afford that" but she would be paying half the price of what it cost where I lived. It was definitely due to a supply of immigrant run shops that just didn't exist to the same extent where I was.
I think this is more just a really good reminder that many Asian nail salons are exploitative of their workers and to avoid them altogether. I don't get pedicures so I kind of forgot about this aspect of things. I don't know that you should feel bad for not paying - you were a customer who did not get the service that you came in for - but I think I'd avoid that type of place in the future, both because of problems like this and because of ethical concerns about the workers.
I would have paid because I’m a coward, but it doesn’t sound like she actually cut you. It sounds like she just overdid the cuticle maintenance a bit and since you don’t regularly get pedicures, your cuticles weren’t used to it. No shame, happens to me too. Hell, I’ll look down and see blood lining the side of my fingernail when they get really dry.
Post by basilosaurus on May 12, 2023 21:35:26 GMT -5
I don't doubt sent's comments about exploitation. I'm sure it happens to a disturbing degree.
At the same time, a friend of mine in nursing school was a Vietnamese immigrant, came over age 12 (and still had shit writing abilities. I proofread her papers) where people might claim a language barrier although it was often more a cultural barrier ime. Her family had a nail salon, and she often worked there. Not trained or licensed but not exploited unless you count family coercion.
I remember reading years ago that nail salons were one of the few businesses (Asian) immigrants could operate (laundry and restaurants being the others) hence the many family owned businesses from select countries.
This is all an aside to would I pay. If you didn't feel it, didn't notice it, I wonder how deep it was. But I'm horrified at shoving more fluid, reusing the bottle. I'd probably pay (avoiding confrontation) and notify the health dept which of course could also have unintended consequences, but, well, it should have consequences.
I cannot comment on price since I live in an entirely different region. 25 seems definitely on the cheaper end, but I think I paid that in little Havana (Miami vhcol but mostly a long time immigrant community) on a trip to the states a few years ago, and it was one of the best I've ever had. Just like haircuts vary wildly and not always based on skill, I think bare bones pedicure without frills can be an inexpensive business to run. We all probably still remember John Edward $400 haircut! The same one you'd get on a military base for about $8.
I would have paid because I’m a coward, but it doesn’t sound like she actually cut you. It sounds like she just overdid the cuticle maintenance a bit and since you don’t regularly get pedicures, your cuticles weren’t used to it. No shame, happens to me too. Hell, I’ll look down and see blood lining the side of my fingernail when they get really dry.
Yeah no, it was bad cut on the side of my big toe nail bed. She was trimming on the side and went too deep. I'm in a LCOL and a basic pedicure is typically between $25-40. In 2019, pedicures were between $22-35 and then inflation pushed that higher. I don't think it was the case of I got what I paid for because it was so cheap...no matter what the price I certainly don't walk into a nail salon thinking I should leave bleeding.
The legal status of the employees/how they are treated is a whole other issue. How would you even start to determine if they are an ethical employer?
I don't doubt sent's comments about exploitation. I'm sure it happens to a disturbing degree.
At the same time, a friend of mine in nursing school was a Vietnamese immigrant, came over age 12 (and still had shit writing abilities. I proofread her papers) where people might claim a language barrier although it was often more a cultural barrier ime. Her family had a nail salon, and she often worked there. Not trained or licensed but not exploited unless you count family coercion.
I remember reading years ago that nail salons were one of the few businesses (Asian) immigrants could operate (laundry and restaurants being the others) hence the many family owned businesses from select countries.
I read the same about the nail salons, laundry and restaurants in the Asian communities. I also recall reading that pedicures were where they placed the really green employees.
Not related to the nail drama in this thread - A regular 12 year old can't get a job on someone's payroll sweeping floors or washing dishes at a business downtown since states usually have minimum ages to be hired for work. But a 12 year old can be put to work and placed on the payroll of a family owned business if the parent owns the business. So the IRS actually allows this legally although we won't know if your friend was on the payroll or not. Related to the possibility of coercion - if they're young enough (oh say age 3), the IRS will send you letter saying "hmmm, this kid seems to be really young to be earning money, please write below what exactly they do." Though a 12 year old could still be coerced.
Post by basilosaurus on May 12, 2023 21:57:22 GMT -5
I don't know how you'd determine. For the last 15 years I've either lived in Asia or in Asian majority areas, so that alone isn't a tipoff. That they gossip in their primary language vs TikTok gossip as mentioned above.
So 25 is on the cheaper end but not egregiously so for your area.
Iirc salons have to be licensed and display them prominently. So that could be a place to start.
I try not to participate in that economy, but yeah, I’d pay. For exploited workers, it’s basically sweatshop labor. One woman in the article above was making $30 a day; others said the starting wage was $10/day. I’m not saying that was definitely the case here (we certainly can’t know for sure), but there are red flags.
Post by basilosaurus on May 12, 2023 22:05:59 GMT -5
sent by family coercion I mean more like "we sacrificed to bring you here, get you in a school in the 'good' neighborhood, pay for a sport... So you will sweep the floors after school and do your homework while answering phones" At least that's how my friends have described their immigrant/ children of immigrants experiences.
Not payroll the IRS notices, but family obligation. And, yes, the irs does allow child labor in the family business. And Arkansas allows it now, too! Hey, kids, it's time for your 10 hit shift at the meat packaging plant! /Derail
How would you even start to determine if they are an ethical employer?
I would start with the license also as basilosaurus wrote. Does your state require nail salons to be licensed? How about the techs? If a shop is following licensing laws, they are likely also following labor laws.
However licensing may be very lax where you are making it hard to know if the shop operates ethically. What happened during your service and how you were treated afterward is unethical, I think we can all agree on that. However, I am not surprised that they pressured you to pay and didn't offer a single "I'm sorry" because the workers in this salon possibly have everything to lose if you don't pay and nothing to lose by coercing you.
Post by basilosaurus on May 12, 2023 23:08:46 GMT -5
If there's an ethics or safety complaint the whole thing goes down. They should fall over themselves to make it right to avoid such a thing. Which makes this demand even more weird.
They used a general bottle of polish on your still bleeding toe. And kept reusing the bottle, dipped the bloody brush back over and over. And will use that on others later. ::shudder::
That’s not a place I would ever go back to. And no way in heck would I pay!
They used a general bottle of polish on your still bleeding toe. And kept reusing the bottle, dipped the bloody brush back over and over. And will use that on others later. ::shudder::
That’s not a place I would ever go back to. And no way in heck would I pay!
I’m guessing it was stiptic liquid, not polish
She was bleeding and they still polished her nails. So, possibly they also used the styptic, but they also polished bloody toe.
Post by whiskeytails on May 14, 2023 14:10:44 GMT -5
Where I am in Wisconsin we have a high population of Hmong immigrants. One of the salon owners told me that there’s a program in Laos that helps them build nail salons in the US so they can send money back to their families.
My pedicure this past week was $45 and was just $5 more than the basic they offer. From what I can tell, they all keep their own tips.