These stories always present one side and the medical institutions and teams can not share any details without violating laws. Bias, from people putting the story into a film, families being interviewed, or viewers watching, is going to exist when not all the information is public or able to be presented.
Not saying that shitty things never happen in the medical world, they for sure do. Just that we don't always have all the information that might be needed to see the whole picture.
They now have the opportunity to present their side in court.
After the world has had access to the documentary.
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
They now have the opportunity to present their side in court.
After the world has had access to the documentary.
A documentary that was released the same week as a PR campaign hit People magazine, etc.
My bestie is involved with this case (so I am, understandably, pretty biased) and may need to testify. Hospital is providing security and drivers for the doctors because people be fucking UNHINGED.
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
These stories always present one side and the medical institutions and teams can not share any details without violating laws. Bias, from people putting the story into a film, families being interviewed, or viewers watching, is going to exist when not all the information is public or able to be presented.
Not saying that shitty things never happen in the medical world, they for sure do. Just that we don't always have all the information that might be needed to see the whole picture.
From my perspective, I can understand how initially when the child was brought into the ER, the doctors felt the child might have been in danger, and that they were bound to report any suspicions. In this case, it seems like the doctor working for social services was encouraging (directly or indirectly) medical staff from this specific hospital to report these types of situations. But didn’t the medical team notice she didn’t get better when she was removed from the home? Why did they continue to pursue after the mom’s mental health assessment came back negative for MBP?
It sheds light on a LOT of problems with social services in this country. Why are some families zealously and wrongfully pursued, while other children who are genuinely in danger are seemingly forgotten about? How do things like this fall through the cracks? Why does our legal system penalize people who can’t afford the very best legal representation? Why is social services being handled by a private company?? (These are mostly rhetorical because I think many of us know why/how…).
ETA: corrected “for profit” to “private” since the company is in fact a non-profit
would you be willing to summarize either in PM or on this thread? I would love to hear a different perspective/other insights but I do not have the time to listen to a podcast right now.
Post by litskispeciality on Sept 26, 2023 12:06:50 GMT -5
I listened to an episode of Nobody Should Believe Me podcast specifically about the Maya case. I think it's worth a listen if you have time to really focus as there's some medical jargin I don't understand. I won't even try to recap as I'm listening while I work, but I'll say it gives you a whole different perspective, including how hard it is to be in the position of accusing the parents of medical abuse. They also get in to if the family ever saw another doctor, and pose the question if the family should share their medical records in their defense.
I'm going to try the podcast from the beginning, but it's kind of hard to listen too.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 26, 2023 12:26:13 GMT -5
Assuming that the documentary was factual, then I do certainly thing this situation was mishandled and a very tragic situation. That being said, I don't feel great about individuals or companies being held responsible for someone's suicide in most cases. As someone that's lost a family member to suicide, I think it's possibly creating a dangerous precedent.
would you be willing to summarize either in PM or on this thread? I would love to hear a different perspective/other insights but I do not have the time to listen to a podcast right now.
The woman believes Maya's mother has Munchausen by proxy, as she sees similarities between this woman and her sister (who has MbyP). She goes into detail about how she believes the documentary is very biased and not necessarily rooted in fact.
Jalapeñomel, thank you, I appreciate that. litskispeciality, which episode is the one that goes into Maya's case? I do not have time for a full deep dive into a podcast series, but I could probably do one episode.
Post by starburst604 on Sept 26, 2023 19:45:05 GMT -5
I’m watching it now, having listened to Nobody Should Believe Me through the middle of the second season, so not the one about this case yet. I’m about 30 minutes in and can see why the mother checked some of the boxes for MBP based on my listening. Keeping the detailed notebooks about mysterious symptoms and “doctor shopping”. Also why are so many conversations between the family recorded?
Interested to see how I’m going to feel about the case when I finish. I’m not really swayed by the moms psych eval not showing anything, because people with this disorder are incredibly good at deception and most of the time have everyone around them fooled, at least for some time.
ETA: the footage of Maya in the hospital away from her parents, she looks relaxed and comfortable, not in agonizing pain? But maybe this changes. I also think that so far the staff involved in keeping them separated have handled everything really poorly.
I’m watching it now, having listened to Nobody Should Believe Me through the middle of the second season, so not the one about this case yet. I’m about 30 minutes in and can see why the mother checked some of the boxes for MBP based on my listening. Keeping the detailed notebooks about mysterious symptoms and “doctor shopping”. Also why are so many conversations between the family recorded?
Interested to see how I’m going to feel about the case when I finish. I’m not really swayed by the moms psych eval not showing anything, because people with this disorder are incredibly good at deception and most of the time have everyone around them fooled, at least for some time.
ETA: the footage of Maya in the hospital away from her parents, she looks relaxed and comfortable, not in agonizing pain? But maybe this changes. I also think that so far the staff involved in keeping them separated have handled everything really poorly.
I have a bad memory when I watch shows, once it’s over I forget it. But I remember being confused about the recordings also. At first I think I thought they were reenactments cause who has all that stuff recorded but then I realized it wasn’t and I was still very confused.
Post by litskispeciality on Sept 27, 2023 10:50:06 GMT -5
@@@ TW TW
I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on here. One interesting point from the "No One Should Believe Me" podcast was that Maya's mom was adamant that she'd die without the experimental pain meds (Ketamine), however Maya's thankfully still here today, and seems to be healthier. I'm not super familiar with the use of heavy drugs on pain or trauma (like Mushrooms or Ketamine), so I don't know if there was evidence that the coma treatment was worth the risk of death. I would never, ever want a child, or anyone to be in severe pain, but I can see the other side side was there something else that could have been done that wasn't so risky?
I have a long way to go on the NOSBM podcast, but it also gets in to the side of (adult?) children of medical abuse talking about how they didn't know what was normal and what their parents put them through. I don't think the podcast got in to too much of what they think Maya could have been doing per her mom, rather than what was happening medically, but another example was a woman who has breathing issues that she's learning were caused by her mother's medical abuse (educing vomiting.) There was more but I can't paraphrase properly.
Overall I feel bad for the family, especially the dad who was ready to just give up and give anything to get his daughter back. I feel bad for the medical professionals who were doing the right thing and had their reputations ruined, but believe there were others acting in the wrong. Such a sad, complicated case.
Post by expectantsteelerfan on Nov 9, 2023 17:46:13 GMT -5
Yikes. I have listened to all the available episodes of Nobody Should Believe Me, along with reading Andrea Dunlop's (fictional) book about a character whose sister has MBP and done some of my own research on MBP (gone quite a bit down the rabbit hole if you will) after watching Take Care of Maya. And I have to say, although I sided with the family at first, I really was swayed by how much Beata fit the MBP profile as well as all the evidence that was left out of the documentary, mainly the short timeline of the diagnosis to going to such extreme treatment, her insistence on Maya's illness being 'fatal' and her refusal to let Maya be seen by other doctors/specialists in other facilities to confirm the diagnosis. I also truly believe that Maya was 'brainwashed' for lack of a better word into acting how she knew her mom wanted and expected her to act to the point where she could not (and probably to this day still cannot) distinguish reality from fiction in terms of her own health. I think the hospital may have mishandled the case in many ways, but I do not think they should have been held responsible for Beata's death. But mostly I worry what this case will do to doctors, nurses, and other staff who see signs of abuse and hesitate to report it even though they are mandated reporters. The Nobody Should Believe Me first 2 seasons talk a lot about how difficult it is to recognize MBP and successfully keep children safe from a parent who is being accused of that because it's not well-known or accepted as a form of medical child abuse. And though it's thought of as 'rare,' there seem to be a horrifying number of cases that Andrea Dunlop was able to highlight in the podcast, and the things these mothers did to their children are truly monstrous. So I wouldn't necessarily want to see more children treated the way Maya was, but I don't want this issue to be swept under the rug or treated as if it doesn't exist either.
I am in utter shock. I watched the entirety of the trial (please see prior post of BFF testifying a few weeks ago). Plaintiff did not prove most of their claims. I get that this is a sad story, and very emotional, but they didn't PROVE false imprisonment, infliction of emotional distress that led to Mom's suicide. DCF is who kept the shelter order in place. Prior to DCF taking legal custody they had every opportunity to leave if they wanted to, so I have no idea how that would result in false imprisonment. DCF is who kept mom from seeing her daughter. The hospital was following the rule of law in that respect. The battery claims I won't speak to.
Punitive arguments are being made now and I'm fairly certain they will be large damages given how the rest of this has gone.
Yikes. I have listened to all the available episodes of Nobody Should Believe Me, along with reading Andrea Dunlop's (fictional) book about a character whose sister has MBP and done some of my own research on MBP (gone quite a bit down the rabbit hole if you will) after watching Take Care of Maya. And I have to say, although I sided with the family at first, I really was swayed by how much Beata fit the MBP profile as well as all the evidence that was left out of the documentary, mainly the short timeline of the diagnosis to going to such extreme treatment, her insistence on Maya's illness being 'fatal' and her refusal to let Maya be seen by other doctors/specialists in other facilities to confirm the diagnosis. I also truly believe that Maya was 'brainwashed' for lack of a better word into acting how she knew her mom wanted and expected her to act to the point where she could not (and probably to this day still cannot) distinguish reality from fiction in terms of her own health. I think the hospital may have mishandled the case in many ways, but I do not think they should have been held responsible for Beata's death. But mostly I worry what this case will do to doctors, nurses, and other staff who see signs of abuse and hesitate to report it even though they are mandated reporters. The Nobody Should Believe Me first 2 seasons talk a lot about how difficult it is to recognize MBP and successfully keep children safe from a parent who is being accused of that because it's not well-known or accepted as a form of medical child abuse. And though it's thought of as 'rare,' there seem to be a horrifying number of cases that Andrea Dunlop was able to highlight in the podcast, and the things these mothers did to their children are truly monstrous. So I wouldn't necessarily want to see more children treated the way Maya was, but I don't want this issue to be swept under the rug or treated as if it doesn't exist either.
thank you for your perspective! I agree, it's really hard to report suspected abuse so this ruling might make that even harder. Professionally as a mental health therapist, I hear so many reports of emotional abuse and DFCS will not take those reports. It's so hard. Years ago, I reported suspected sexual abuse and it did effectively take this girl from her father for years BUT I was put through the ringer and kept on the stand for three hours. I have a lot of secondary trauma for reporting but yes, still worth it. This father threatened my license and I was scared for my safety for reporting. MBP is super confusing--I haven't seen it in my therapy practice but it's tough. Also parental alienation is tough--that's so hard, especially for men. Mothers and fathers can actually manipulate the kids to report false abuse and until recently many men lost custody because of it. Sorry to go on a tangent. I did have a soft spot for the dad and kids throughout the documentary. But I have mixed feelings about the way the hospital handled it and the mother. I thought the one doctor was suspicious for sure
Post by starburst604 on Nov 9, 2023 18:18:28 GMT -5
expectantsteelerfan I listened to all of that podcast as well and firmly believe Beada was committing medical abuse. I think her husband partially believed it too, he was about to leave her! I’m just shocked at this verdict and dismayed at how it will impact the reporting of suspected abuse. I’ll definitely be listening to Andrea’s follow up podcast.
Has anyone encountered a good summary article of the trial? Perhaps a summary of the evidence presented?
I don't really want to watch the documentary or listen to a podcast. My interest isn't that deep.
I read this article and my eyesbrows were raised the whole time when they talked about Dr. Smith. It seemed she got tunnel visioned on this case and some bad decisions were made. But I also recognize it could be one side reporting.
Has anyone encountered a good summary article of the trial? Perhaps a summary of the evidence presented?
I don't really want to watch the documentary or listen to a podcast. My interest isn't that deep.
I read this article and my eyesbrows were raised the whole time when they talked about Dr. Smith. It seemed she got tunnel visioned on this case and some bad decisions were made. But I also recognize it could be one side reporting.
My view of this is very much colored by my experience w/an ex-friend that was a pathological liar and exhibited all of the behaviors of a parent w/MBP. The actions of the mother seem very suspect and I'm surprised that the trial result was what it was. I'm assuming that the hospital will appeal.