Post by librarychica on Jul 31, 2023 11:07:52 GMT -5
So H and I are considering a move. We are both from Florida — I grew up in a more rural, central area and he grew up in a large city further south — and have raised our kids here. We are …. just about done with this place. We both work remotely so we’re going to do some research and make some visits.
So! If you love your home or another place you’ve lived, lmk. Our priorities below.
Welcoming community with good schools. We don’t need the highest test scores or anything fancy, but involved teachers, safe environment, and options for advanced courses
Near a decent-sized airport
Seasons
Ability to buy a 4 bedroom house large enough for two people to WFH and have overnight guests for $600-700K. In-law suite or finished basement for that price is a bonus.
Outdoor recreation. I kayak but I can find a new hobby, but we like to be like to be outside.
Moderate to liberal politics. I don’t want the government or my neighbors to care about the state of my or my daughters’ uteruses or whom anyone is dating. DeSantis’ over involvement in schools is the primary reason we would be leaving.
I love where we live (Encinitas, CA - North San Diego county) and it hits 90% of your list - except for home prices. When we bought our (40+ year old, not fancy, 2100 square foot) house 12 years ago, it was in the $600-$700k range. But now would sell for like 2.5x that. I don't know how young families are affording our area anymore.
It also feels like everywhere I go and like, home prices are pretty nuts. Like we were on vacation in West Yellowstone, a not that nice small tourist town with a main draw of being close to the park entrance. I looked up a house I ran by that was for sale and it was $700k. That's not a town I would want to live in full-time. I was shocked. I like a lot of places we visit, but it feels like anywhere I'd actually want to live and be in a decent location, houses are super expensive.
Post by librarychica on Jul 31, 2023 11:31:18 GMT -5
sdlaura, i know. it’s insane. We paid $365K for an older 4 bedroom in a nice area in 2013. A similar house in the same small neighborhood went for $630K recently.
We could possibly go higher but I am aiming for around $700 if we can manage. Especially knowing that we would be paying state income taxes most likely, though hopefully our property insurance would be lower. It’s all a matter of trade offs I suppose.
We lived in Ann Arbor, MI and it was great. Except that it does get over run with students. But I feel like surrounding towns are small town feel with very close access to Ann Arbor and Detroit and it's suburbs are 45 minutes of the Ann Arbor area. Michigan does have it's far share of far right politics. But near the cities it is less.
We currently live in a suburb of Chicago. I can PM exact towns, but all the suburbs are different so you really have to get a feel for each one. Prices are kind of all over the place. We are in a cheaper suburb for home prices, so that did work out for us. Northern Suburbs and places like Oak Park, Highland Park etc are going to be very expensive. But southern suburbs are more reasonably priced. Unfortunately, there is very low inventory around here, so buying may be difficult just finding the inventory to look at.
Chicago suburbs have a LOT more traffic. We are a logistics hub with tons of trucks. We still have our far share of conservatives especially in Southern Illinois. Winters tend to be nicer with far less snow than MI. MI will still get more snow and even ice storms.
For outdoor rec, broadly speaking check out Forest Preserves especially of Cook, DuPage and Will County. For outdoor rec in MI, check out www.metroparks.com/.
The winters can be very brown, gray and dull. Driving in snow and ice is no fun, and it gets dark at 4pm. But, they have been milder lately with climate change.
I wouldn't go south/ deep south because for us, it just doesn't fit our culture. But, we would look at some cities in NC if I were to move. But I think I have convinced myself to stay here despite winter.
Post by librarychica on Jul 31, 2023 11:54:27 GMT -5
waverly thanks! I dread the idea of a Midwestern winter but maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. Other than Florida H has lived in DC and I’ve lived in England. Both have pretty mild winters. So winter is new to us.
librarychica one of my best friends lives in Boulder. They were previously in New York and then Los Angeles and her H was deciding where to base his last company, and they picked Boulder out of pretty much anywhere and love it. Even though it gets cold in winter, it's almost always sunny so that makes it more mild. They love being outside too and it's great for that. I might have an issue with the super dry air, and they are getting more fires lately. Of course - their 4-bedroom house (with nice basement for WFH) was also a lot more than you want to spend. But I imagine there are some areas nearby that aren't as pricey as Boulder proper.
I thought Boulder was a really nice town, but I was there for a visit.
I will say, some of the states that are considered red, like South and North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, are very red if you are rural, but in the suburbs of the major cities, it's pretty liberal. And home prices are astronomically cheaper.
So the Boston area definitely checks off a lot of those boxes. Near the ocean, lakes/rivers, mountains. Definitely seasons. Depending on where you go and how close to Boston you want to be, you can definitely find a decently priced home. Logan Airport is pretty big and you can get just about anywhere without a connection if you want.
It is expensive here - not just for housing, but food, power, heat, etc. New Hampshire is a bit cheaper for housing in some areas, Manchester airport is pretty big, and Boston would only be like an hour away.
If you were regularly commuting in to Boston, that's where housing gets challenging. When I worked in Boston, my 15 mile drive was an hour easy. There are a lot of public transportation options, but lately they've been extremely unreliable. The commuter rail is pretty good, but the subway has been a nightmare over the past year.
Feel free to PM me if you want more info and I could give you some towns to look into if you're considering MA.
We have been considering the same kind of move because… Texas. We like the east coast a lot. Maryland ticks all the right boxes for me. Especially around the Baltimore area, which is much less expensive than closer to DC. I like a lot of South Carolina and the Atlanta area, but again, I want to be someplace my daughter’s uterus is her own damn business. So red states are out even if the cities are lovely and moderate to liberal.
I love Minneapolis, but the winters are really scary to me. Same with Michigan. I think I’m softly being recruited by a company based in Detroit, and while we might consider it, oof! The winters would be a steep learning curve.
I thought Boulder was a really nice town, but I was there for a visit.
I will say, some of the states that are considered red, like South and North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, are very red if you are rural, but in the suburbs of the major cities, it's pretty liberal. And home prices are astronomically cheaper.
I love NC and Tennessee. I grew up spending a lot of summers there with my dad’s family and my own family has visited. NC especially reminds me of Florida in the 1990s and my very happy childhood here. I might consider NC.
My concern is if what the far right is pulling with schools here is successful that other southern states will imitate. Where I live in Orlando is steadily moderate-to-liberal and full of kind people and a diverse population. But it’s our local school board versus the state government and the government is determined to have its say. I was joking with H that I half expect to find a state senator in my kitchen with an opinion on what I should cook for supper at this rate.
PNW has most of what you want but housing prices are insane. My 3 bedroom 1100sqft house would go for $300k what you are looking would be $$$ and not too many places have basements around here. We got seasons and some added seasons like fog season but we are gray and wet for a good 8 months out of the year.
Bend/Redmond Oregon has grown a ton over the last few years and seems to be the go-to spot for people who WFH full time. Decent weather year round, good schools, lots of outdoor activities but house prices are very high and cost of living is high.
I will say as someone from a conservative state, it's pretty frustrating that people vote against their own interests at times and will vote straight ticket without even listening to other candidates. Sometimes the more urban areas can pull out an upset, but not very often.
Maybe that's why my 4 bed, 3 bath house with a basement and 6 acres is worth around $400,000. People aren't taking the tradeoff.
waverly thanks! I dread the idea of a Midwestern winter but maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. Other than Florida H has lived in DC and I’ve lived in England. Both have pretty mild winters. So winter is new to us.
You said "seasons", so I didn't know if that meant you were open to winter or not. It can be brutal. I'm not going to lie. And in some ways the Colorado idea is better because there is so much sun. We might not see the sun for all of December. But I feel like you don't see the sun much in the Pacific Northwest either.
I spent a summer in DC, and it is not for us. I lived in NYC for 4 years, just too much drama. I think something more like MA, NH, VT are probably more similar to the Midwest.
The culture is different in the Midwest than it is in the Northeast though I learned that when I lived in NYC, both a NYC culture and a northeast culture.
For the northeast, the Boston area is definitely right on track with what you're thinking! I'm right on the NH border and housing prices are definitely lower here, but NH is getting redder and crazier unfortunately. I'd take MA over NH if we were coming here and starting from scratch. But we couldn't afford to move to MA and get hit with all the extra income tax plus higher home prices vs. the NH budgets we are used to. Like mae0111, the commute to the city is brutal. DH's commute to the city can easily take 2 hours during peak time when in reality it should be like 45 minutes. But there are a lot of people who live in our area of NH and commute down to Boston for work.
186momx , I was going to mention Bend. We love to vacation there with our Portland-based friends. But like you said, it's gotten super expensive. I also feel like much of Oregon is so far left that it might annoy me even on the same side of the political aisle. Our friends' kids in Portland were playing soccer outside in the rain in required masks even after everyone could be vaccinated.
mommyatty , I grew up near Baltimore and now my sister, parents, and one of my best friends from growing up are all in Ellicott City. It's a great place to live.
Post by midwestmama on Jul 31, 2023 13:22:36 GMT -5
Lurker here. I live in MI, and a lot of the things you listed would be covered in MI. Yes, winters can be bad, but the big lakes (Lake Michigan and Lake Huron) are amazing in the summer. There are decent employment opportunities in the Detroit and Grand Rapids areas, and if you work remote or are willing to commute 30 minutes or so (although likely commutes are a bit longer in the Detroit area, depending on where you want to commute from/to), you can live in a smaller community outside of the city.
I personally would not live in the Upper Peninsula as winter weather can start in September and go until May, but that's me and I don't love winter that much.
Post by librarychica on Jul 31, 2023 13:48:37 GMT -5
twinmomma, mae0111, we were definitely looking at southern NH and central/Western Massachusetts. I’m going to DM you for specifics if y’all don’t mind.
Post by supertrooper1 on Jul 31, 2023 13:51:33 GMT -5
Beau and I would move to Boise if we didn't have family where we live in the northern part of the PNW.
I like the PNW for a lot of things but I'm not sure I'd recommend it to anyone. The summers are beautiful but short. We average in the 70's without humidity. There is so much to do outdoors including kayaking. I'm much further north than 186momx and live in the greyest part of the U.S. We get fewer days of sunlight and it rains a lot during the fall, winter, and spring. We get some snow, but not like the midwest. Our politics are strange. Much of Washington is conservative, but Seattle liberal voters control the politics. Once you're out of Seattle, the smaller cities are conversative leaning. My specific county is very divided, where the largest city of about 90K is liberal and the smaller cities are conservative.
Our housing prices are insane. We have Seattle prices yet we're 100 miles from Seattle. A large 4 bedroom house would probably start at $800K. We have a regional airport that is nice to fly out of, but the destinations are limited, or we pay a few hundred for a commuter flight to Seattle. We usually drive an hour and a half to Seattle. Vancouver airport is about the same distance.
sdlaura, Bend has always been expensive but I will say it has gotten really bad in the last 10 years. Oh god the masks for so long after everyone else. DD doctors office finally stopped requiring them last month. When we went in April masks were required, my mom uses the same group and had to wear one to her May appointment. Staff still are required to wear masks at all times and you are asked COVID question as you walk in the door. The state finally told everyone that no more masks 4/1/23 in medical facilities. The I5 corridor is much worse than the outlying areas and don't get me started on the unhoused and how many extra taxes we pay to help them.
I'm going to throw Pittsburgh PA in here. I currently live in the south suburbs of Pgh. There is a wide variety of housing values and school choices depending on what suburb you choose. New construction and older big houses could easily be had for ~$250-$500 for 1800+ sq ft. Cost of living is pretty low. There are many tech startups in the area due to the universities. Some of the top districts in the state are near Pgh and you can definitely find a variety of AP courses/college credit in HS courses in any district. We do get 4 seasons with probably 1-2 big snowstorms of 6+ inches per year. There are plenty of rivers and lakes to kayak and there are various parks to hike within a 1-2 hr radius. We also love being outdoors and try to explore a new trail or two every month. Flying in/out of Pgh is very easy although you might have to make a connection in some cases. PA is split 50/50 with democrats and republicans, with the big cities leaning blue while the rural areas lean red. PA has had a democratic governor for awhile.
I live in Philadelphia and I love it. It’s such a fun city. That said, the schools are kind of shit but the suburban districts close in are good (Abington, Cheltenham, jenkintown — people rave about Lower Merion but it has issues and I would avoid Bucks County like the plague — it’s DeSantis’s wet dream).
I grew up in Delaware and it was a nice place to live as a kid. Not as an adult.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
supertrooper1, I love your area in Sept/October but yep, the winters are long and gray. Which is why I recommended Bend area as they get sunshine I think on average 340 days a year.
Post by supertrooper1 on Jul 31, 2023 16:32:20 GMT -5
186momx, I need to make a trip to Bend one of these days since I've never been there. I've either stayed on I-5 or cut over to US-97 after Bend on all my trips through there.
librarychica, First of all, kudos to you for considering a move from Florida! Politics in that state are ridiculous IMHO!
I lived in the Pacific Northwest from 1997 until 2007. Since the late 90s, I have visited Bend at least once every 5 years. I'm astounded by the growth. The expenses have skyrocketed too. With the area's the mild temperatures, four seasons, access to amazing outdoor activities, great schools and moderate to liberal politics... It's easy to see why people want to live there. I wouldn't discourage somebody with your living criteria from looking into it.
I know everything within 150 mi of downtown Seattle is crazy expensive... One other option I would consider is the Tacoma area. H grew up in a Tacoma suburb. We've been together for over 20 years and in that time I have seen Tacoma become much more of a family friendly and cultural city. My in-laws still live and my husband's hometown and they speak very highly of Tacoma. Housing prices aren't quite as crazy as they are in Seattle. H and I have actually talked about the possibility of moving there at some point to take care of his parents. Our first place to look for a home would be Point Defiance, just outside of Tacoma, with easy access to Puget Sound and the freeway. PM me if you are interested in chatting more about Tacoma. (Yes, there are some crazies near Tacoma, think about disturbing flags waving in their yards... But few enough -in my experience - that you can just roll your eyes at them.) supertrooper1, do you have any more insights specifically on Tacoma? I'm always there only as a visitor, but you seem to live somewhat close by
Post by plutosmoon on Jul 31, 2023 21:36:18 GMT -5
I live in way western MA (Berkshires) right by the NY and VT border. It's rural, but pretty liberal, my city has a cool art vibe and I work at a liberal college. Our real estate market is tight, but I am in the middle of buying an older 1400ish square ft, 3 bedroom cape for 250k. 600k buys you into the nicer towns with plenty of space. I can be at the Albany airport in about an hour. Boston and NYC are 3 hours away. Southern Berkshires are closer to the pike, so there is more civilization down that way, home prices are higher, but last I looked still in your range. Our winters can be rough, but our fall and summers more than make up for it. Outdoor activities are big here.
I moved here from suburban Atlanta about 8 years ago, I don't regret it. I've lived a lot of places (Midwest, PNW, New England, southeast) and I really like it here.
Post by librarychica on Aug 1, 2023 7:52:41 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. This is helpful.
The shortlist so far,
Boston exurb — sounds like it would be a great fit. though I’m not sure how to budget for heating costs. Research required. H ranks this best idea 2.
Minneapolis St Paul — idk about those Midwestern winters but I very much like my Minnesota colleagues and what little I’ve seen of the area. All their kids seem very happy too. Exploration and more heating-cost research required. I’m very well-connected professionally here even beyond my current job somehow.
Denver area — definitely different from Florida! The most Hispanic people in the area, I think, on this list so the girls can keep up their Spanish. H ranks this best idea 1 — especially since he has a good friend here.
Raleigh-Durham NC — my dad’s suggestion and the only metro area in NC I have never been to. Evidently my father had dreams of my going to UNC Chapel Hill when he used to travel here for his job — sorry dad. We would have to visit, having never been there, but drivable to home. Idk how I feel about this one, honestly.
As for Raleigh, NC, Ds is currently in Fayetteville. The best thing about it is, within 4 hours driving, you can get to so many places. Charleston, Charlotte, most of the NC beaches, Northern VA, Washington DC area, Ashville. He meets us in the mountains regularly.