School drama...would you express concerns to principal?

[nicolewi]

My daughter's fifth grade teacher (the one we don't like who keeps kids in for recess all the time) had an incident yesterday. At the very end of the day, when kids were packing up, my daughter asked to go to the bathroom. WHILE she was in the bathroom very briefly, something happened in the classroom, but she doesn't know what. She came back to the teacher yelling at the whole class "like he wanted to murder us" and everyone being told to go to their desks and put their heads down. He was yelling that they should know better, they are fifth graders, etc, and he "didn't care if they missed their bus!!!" and saying there would be repercussions tomorrow (now today) as well. So the school is already announcing that kids should go to parent-pick-up and calling buses and some kids are crying and very upset. He let them go just in time for DD to make our bus, which is probably the first bus in the class. 

I think this is all SUPER innappropriate but also I have no clue what happened. I asked DD to find out today. 

I'm kind of waiting to see what the story is and also whether there were additional repercussions, or whether he apologized. 

[mccallister84]

I mean it’s an extremely rough time of year to be a teacher and your daughter did not see what happened that “caused “ the behavior. I agree it sounds completely inappropriate but I’d be inclined to give a little grace if it sounds like a one off.

[VillainV]

Did he say “I want to murder you” or some variation? Or was he just yelling? Is yelling common for him?

My H is a 5th grade teacher and he would only ever actually yell if something dangerous was going on or there was a major safety issue. Or probably if kids were doing something highly inappropriate and not stopping when he asked.

No kid should have to miss their bus or not be released on time…but depending on what happened, I could see a teacher really wanting to drive home a point that something very bad was happening, or kids being more scared/upset about what happened/almost happened than they were upset by the teacher’s reaction.

ETA: I don’t think I’d contact the principal without knowing what happened, or unless your own child missed their bus. I’m sure other parents whose kids were present will reach out to the administrators if they think it’s needed.

[nicolewi]

I don't like this guy, and I give teachers a lot of grace. So it's hard for me not to kind of hope he gets in trouble. But then I feel mean b/c he has kids and I think? he means well overall, but i just do not like his style and it's causing DD a resurgence of anxiety about school. I communicate with teachers a lot b/c of her dyslexia and dyscalculia, but it's weird and awkward to try to message with him. I find myself often going through the special ed teacher (who is fantastic) instead.

[nicolewi]

I messaged another mom and she said kids were "kicking chairs", so it could have had safety implications?

I'm trying hard to be fair even though I don't like him. I'm waiting for the story tonight.

He is very strict and keeps kids in for recess a lot and isn't very empathetic or understanding. He doesn't necessarily YELL a lot but he lectures a lot.

DD is afraid to ask for help or tell him she doesn’t understand something bc she got burned a couple times.

[icedcoffee]

I think you need to wait and see what happened. Maybe his anger matched the crime.

[mccallister84]

I get your frustration, and I am not in any way saying his reaction was okay, but since your kid missed what happened I don’t think you are the one who should bring this up.

Now, I do think you can reach out to the teacher and express concern that your child is afraid to ask for help, etc and then perhaps escalate it to the principal if the response isn’t good.

[steamboat185]

I would not take it to the principal. The 5th graders at our school are absolutely horrible. Everyone knows they are horrible the parents of the bad kids just do not care. DD has had to put her head on her desk almost weekly due to ridiculousness in her classroom that she has no part in, but it’s just what is happening. If the teacher is yelling it’s probably for good cause even if you don’t like him. Let it go.

I know I’ve yelled at several 5th graders working at school this year and they 💯 deserved it every single time.
Edit the 5th grade teacher I work with has yelled at her students that they were pathetic useless lumps. They definitely were both times.

[VillainV]

Dec 20, 2023 14:53:23 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I don't like this guy, and I give teachers a lot of grace. So it's hard for me not to kind of hope he gets in trouble.

Honestly it’s terrifying to think that a parent would dislike my husband so much that they would hope he gets in trouble for something. We live in a state where teachers are basically under attack for all kinds of stuff, so it’s a real fear that some parent may have it out for him for something they disagree with.

[abs]

Dec 20, 2023 15:11:40 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

I would not take it to the principal. The 5th graders at our school are absolutely horrible. Everyone knows they are horrible the parents of the bad kids just do not care. DD has had to put her head on her desk almost weekly due to ridiculousness in her classroom that she has no part in, but it’s just what is happening. If the teacher is yelling it’s probably for good cause even if you don’t like him. Let it go.

I know I’ve yelled at several 5th graders working at school this year and they 💯 deserved it every single time.
Edit the 5th grade teacher I work with has yelled at her students that they were pathetic useless lumps. They definitely were both times.

Huh. Absolutely horrible? Bad kids? Pathetic lumps? All of this makes me very sad.

I get it. Adolescents are tough. I have one. I could not teach a group of them and I respect our teachers who do such a great job if it. Calling them useless lumps though is just sad. Trust me those kids know they aren’t liked and it’s hard to stay motivated around people you know dislike you.

OP I wouldn’t say anything to the principal but would reach out to the teacher just to check in and see how you can help your daughter be successful.

[quesyrah]

You don’t even know what happened. First I would wait and see what he was yelling about.

I’m not a fan of teachers yelling, but I have also seen situations where a teacher has just hit their limit. They’re humans.

I used to work in my kids old school and we had several very challenging students. One of them regularly caused their classroom to be evacuated because they would get mad and throw chairs and destroy the classroom.

[karinothing]

Did you contact the teacher and ask? I think if you have concerns about behavior he is the one to ask. The principal was not there either.

[waverly]

nicolewi, I would wait to see what actually happened.

steamboat185, name calling is not OK.

[steamboat185]

Dec 20, 2023 15:40:55 GMT -5 abs said:

Dec 20, 2023 15:11:40 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

I would not take it to the principal. The 5th graders at our school are absolutely horrible. Everyone knows they are horrible the parents of the bad kids just do not care. DD has had to put her head on her desk almost weekly due to ridiculousness in her classroom that she has no part in, but it’s just what is happening. If the teacher is yelling it’s probably for good cause even if you don’t like him. Let it go.

I know I’ve yelled at several 5th graders working at school this year and they 💯 deserved it every single time.
Edit the 5th grade teacher I work with has yelled at her students that they were pathetic useless lumps. They definitely were both times.

Huh. Absolutely horrible? Bad kids? Pathetic lumps? All of this makes me very sad.

I get it. Adolescents are tough. I have one. I could not teach a group of them and I respect our teachers who do such a great job if it. Calling them useless lumps though is just sad. Trust me those kids know they aren’t liked and it’s hard to stay motivated around people you know dislike you.

OP I wouldn’t say anything to the principal but would reach out to the teacher just to check in and see how you can help your daughter be successful.

The horrible kids are literally shitting on the floor of the bathroom and rubbing it all over the walls, they’ve drawn a penis on a classroom rug, thrown desks, chairs, computers, sucker punched a teacher and spit in her face. It’s been a rough semester (some of these were in our center based program some in gen ed).

I promise you this teacher is amazing and caring and thankfully her kids know that when she yells there is a problem.

[lilac05]

steamboat185, what the kids are doing is horrible, but I'll die on the hill arguing that they're not "horrible kids" and calling any human a "useless lump" is never OK, either. If kids know they're being called horrible, why would they bother to do any better? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

In this situation, I would not contact the principal because my child was not involved and did not see what happened first-hand. Rest assured that a parent of a child who was in the classroom has already contacted the principal. The only time I would get involved is if that particular incident triggered some new anxiety or other issues for my child. If the year as a whole has been causing increased anxiety, I'd continue to reach out to the teacher and other supports in the school to continue to address it.

[VillainV]

Dec 20, 2023 16:34:33 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

Dec 20, 2023 15:40:55 GMT -5 abs said:

Huh. Absolutely horrible? Bad kids? Pathetic lumps? All of this makes me very sad.

I get it. Adolescents are tough. I have one. I could not teach a group of them and I respect our teachers who do such a great job if it. Calling them useless lumps though is just sad. Trust me those kids know they aren’t liked and it’s hard to stay motivated around people you know dislike you.

OP I wouldn’t say anything to the principal but would reach out to the teacher just to check in and see how you can help your daughter be successful.

The horrible kids are literally shitting on the floor of the bathroom and rubbing it all over the walls, they’ve drawn a penis on a classroom rug, thrown desks, chairs, computers, sucker punched a teacher and spit in her face. It’s been a rough semester (some of these were in our center based program some in gen ed).

I promise you this teacher is amazing and caring and thankfully her kids know that when she yells there is a problem.

Even with that, there are better ways to describe these kids than “horrible.” They have behavior challenges. They have unique needs. They struggle with emotional regulation or impulse control. In the vast majority of cases, the child has needs that aren’t being met, either at home or school or both. Reducing it to “horrible” really does these kids a disservice.

[nsl]

steamboat185 , I've been a high school teacher/librarian for 18 years and have seen some truly insane shit including kids setting fire to something in my classroom. I have definitely yelled at students a few times, and have vented to colleagues about kids who were testing my every nerve. Calling kids insulting names to their faces goes way beyond raising your voice or thinking something unkind about a student. No amount of being "amazing and caring" will fix the relationship your colleague has with those students now, and they will definitely continue doing what they've been doing because she's shown them she hates them.

There's a big problem with discipline on your campus, but fixing it is going to take adults who are capable of controlling their tempers. It sounds like you and she might want to find different positions next school year.

ETA: OP, if you do go to the principal I'd do it to request a teacher change because your daughter isn't getting the support she needs for her learning disabilities since she's too afraid of the teacher's reactions to her questions to ask for help.

[klee23]

I think your prior experience and your daughter's is coloring this interaction. I'm not saying it's 100% okay because I wasn't there- but neither was your daughter.

He threatened to have them miss the bus- but no one did- since you said your daughter has one of the earliest to leave. I agree with PP that he was trying to convey the severity of the incident. And I don't think heads on desks is an aggressive punishment.

[Susie]

Absolutely not at this stage.  This question seems super premature when you don't really know what happened. 

You don't like this guy, you've said so multiple times.  I get it, my kids have had teachers I haven't been thrilled with, to be kind.  However, this is giving witch hunt (warlock hunt?) vibes and that doesn't help anyone.

[abs]

Dec 20, 2023 16:34:33 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

Dec 20, 2023 15:40:55 GMT -5 abs said:

Huh. Absolutely horrible? Bad kids? Pathetic lumps? All of this makes me very sad.

I get it. Adolescents are tough. I have one. I could not teach a group of them and I respect our teachers who do such a great job if it. Calling them useless lumps though is just sad. Trust me those kids know they aren’t liked and it’s hard to stay motivated around people you know dislike you.

OP I wouldn’t say anything to the principal but would reach out to the teacher just to check in and see how you can help your daughter be successful.

The horrible kids are literally shitting on the floor of the bathroom and rubbing it all over the walls, they’ve drawn a penis on a classroom rug, thrown desks, chairs, computers, sucker punched a teacher and spit in her face. It’s been a rough semester (some of these were in our center based program some in gen ed).

I promise you this teacher is amazing and caring and thankfully her kids know that when she yells there is a problem.

Sure. It sounds like it has been a very rough semester for you and like the school has an administration problem that makes dealing with behavior issues very challenging. I’m sorry and am sympathetic to that. I still don’t agree with the language here. The behavior is horrible and unacceptable. They themselves are 10 and 11 year old children. They aren’t horrible kids.

[steamboat185]

Dec 20, 2023 17:13:58 GMT -5 abs said:

Dec 20, 2023 16:34:33 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

The horrible kids are literally shitting on the floor of the bathroom and rubbing it all over the walls, they’ve drawn a penis on a classroom rug, thrown desks, chairs, computers, sucker punched a teacher and spit in her face. It’s been a rough semester (some of these were in our center based program some in gen ed).

I promise you this teacher is amazing and caring and thankfully her kids know that when she yells there is a problem.

Sure. It sounds like it has been a very rough semester for you and like the school has an administration problem that makes dealing with behavior issues very challenging. I’m sorry and am sympathetic to that. I still don’t agree with the language here. The behavior is horrible and unacceptable. They themselves are 10 and 11 year old children. They aren’t horrible kids.

I have never called them horrible outside of venting on here. Just to be clear.

[maudefindlay]

Dec 20, 2023 17:21:02 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

Dec 20, 2023 17:13:58 GMT -5 abs said:

Sure. It sounds like it has been a very rough semester for you and like the school has an administration problem that makes dealing with behavior issues very challenging. I’m sorry and am sympathetic to that. I still don’t agree with the language here. The behavior is horrible and unacceptable. They themselves are 10 and 11 year old children. They aren’t horrible kids.

I have never called them horrible outside of venting on here. Just to be clear.

But you say the teacher you work with called them useless lumps and then you said that they were, so you are condoning the teacher calling them that. That's terrible.

[steamboat185]

Dec 20, 2023 17:27:33 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Dec 20, 2023 17:21:02 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

I have never called them horrible outside of venting on here. Just to be clear.

But you say the teacher you work with called them useless lumps and then you said that they were, so you are condoning the teacher calling them that. That's terrible.

Yes she does. She said don’t sit there being a useless lump find something to do. It doesn’t strike me as a terrible awful comment and the kids laugh and get to work. Clearly it’s an awful thing to say, but it’s never come across as mean spirited.

[quesyrah]

Dec 20, 2023 17:41:13 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

Dec 20, 2023 17:27:33 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

But you say the teacher you work with called them useless lumps and then you said that they were, so you are condoning the teacher calling them that. That's terrible.

Yes she does. She said don’t sit there being a useless lump find something to do. It doesn’t strike me as a terrible awful comment and the kids laugh and get to work. Clearly it’s an awful thing to say, but it’s never come across as mean spirited.

Your initial comment was that she yelled at them calling them pathetic useless lumps…

[nicolewi]

Okay, I'm letting it go after talking to DD. It sounds like kids were being really obnoxious. One was chasing another one who took her stuff, and another kid was talking back, and something else was going on. I'm sure he just got overwhelmed with them being awful and lost it.

I don't agree with his methods in GENERAL (not just this), but I can see myself losing it under these conditions if the kids were all acting up.

They all missed half of recess today to "practice being good." DD wasn't even in the room when this went down!!! So I don't agree with that, either, but we're just trying to get through the year understanding that we won't always like all of our teachers but we have to try to work within their rules.

[quesyrah]

Dec 20, 2023 17:43:30 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Okay, I'm letting it go after talking to DD. It sounds like kids were being really obnoxious. One was chasing another one who took her stuff, and another kid was talking back, and something else was going on. I'm sure he just got overwhelmed with them being awful and lost it.

I don't agree with his methods in GENERAL (not just this), but I can see myself losing it under these conditions if the kids were all acting up.

They all missed half of recess today to "practice being good." DD wasn't even in the room when this went down!!! So I don't agree with that, either, but we're just trying to get through the year understanding that we won't always like all of our teachers but we have to try to work within their rules.

I completely disagree with losing recess as a consequence. I also am not a fan of the whole class losing out. But I would let this go.

[mofongo]

While I know kids shouldn’t be spoken to like that, “useless lumps” made me lol.

[redheadk]

Is this guy great? Probably not. But he IS better than no teacher at all and that is where we are at in education right now. It’s best to let this go.

[maudefindlay]

Dec 20, 2023 18:19:23 GMT -5 mofongo said:

While I know kids shouldn’t be spoken to like that, “useless lumps” made me lol.

My parents were friends with most of the teachers in my small town. One day at the elementary school Judy walked out of her room and could hear another teacher Linda yelling at her class across the hall. Judy walked over to listen to see if Linda needed any help. Judy stood there when all of a sudden she heard Linda say "I mean it, straighten up. You all are acting like a bunch of dildos!" Judy gasped and opened the door and motioned for Linda to come to the hall. She asked if Linda was OK and Linda said yes. Judy said but you called your students dildos and Linda said yes I did and they are. Then it occurred to Judy "Linda, what's a dildo?" Linda "Oh, you know silly, silly people." Judy explained to her what a dildo is and Linda said "My God, I've been calling them that all week!"

[UMaineTeach]

I would talk to the principal. But I do that anyway. I reported a teacher just last week for something similar. And, for the influence I have I recommend that teacher not get the change of position I know they want, because this incident sent me over and I am done with them. 15 years of listening to the teacher shame the (little little) kids and I’m done. Can’t.

The new position would give them more power to control things.