Would you do anything? teacher issue

[nicolewi]

This is again about my daughter's fifth grade teacher. I think I'm letting this go, but I'm upset about it. 

DH and I were out of town last week Weds--late last night. DD has dyslexia and dyscalculia. She was extremely nervous about and sensitive about having my parents help her with math b/c she "didn't want them to see how stupid she is". (her words; we are working on these sad/bad feelings!!!). This was a BIG concern for her.

I messaged her special ed teacher and regular teacher the week before the trip explaining that it would be hard for my parents to help her with math, and she was feeling very nervous about it. I asked if we could get the work early, and/or if her special ed teacher could help her with it, with accommodations, or what else they could suggest. 
Special ed teacher was super nice and said she was happy to help however she could. Classroom teacher said 
Thank you for the heads up about next week. As Special Ed Teacher stated, we will work with DAUGHTER next week to support her in math.
Have a wonderful trip.

I then sent a follow-up also noting my understanding was that DD wouldn't have math homework at home while we were gone.

So I guess DD did SOME at school with her special ed teacher, but she still brought home homework TWICE. My parents struggled to even help her, and it was really stressful for everyone, they weren't able to complete it (luckily this is okay) and DD was very upset. Basically exactly what I tried to avoid. I don't really understand what he was thinking sending the worksheets home!!!

WWYD?? It's like he pretty much ignored everything.

[waverly]

I feel like I sent these emails, and people get the exact opposite out of them. For example, I am available every day but Thursday and they want to schedule on Thursday. This is how I feel that the teacher took your communication. He didn't read it well and seemed to have poor comprehension.

There isn't much you can do here, but you can add it to her IEP I am thinking at a future meeting. I would manage this at home, by not doing the homework on time and waiting until you are home to do it. For 5th, that should be fine.

For 6th, you may need it added to the IEP because by 7th they start taking points off for late work. Something about not taking off points for late work, or allowing up to X many days to turn in work/ extra time.  

[kitty]

Jan 29, 2024 14:58:17 GMT -5 waverly said:

I feel like I sent these emails, and people get the exact opposite out of them. For example, I am available every day but Thursday and they want to schedule on Thursday. This is how I feel that the teacher took your communication. He didn't read it well and seemed to have poor comprehension.

There isn't much you can do here, but you can add it to her IEP I am thinking at a future meeting. I would manage this at home, by not doing the homework on time and waiting until you are home to do it. For 5th, that should be fine.

For 6th, you may need it added to the IEP because by 7th they start taking points off for late work. Something about not taking off points for late work, or allowing up to X many days to turn in work/ extra time.  

I have had this problem when ordering coffee! If I say milk and NO sugar, I end up with milk and sugar because those are the words that registered. I have to say JUST milk to get milk with no sugar reliably. I think he skimmed it and didn't catch the exact details.

I think next time I would approach it as (politely) telling instead of asking by emailing and say, "While we are out of town, DD will not be working on math homework at home. She will put them aside and will work on them after we return and hand them in as soon as possible." I would tell DD that the plan is to not do math at home until you return and let her know that you have already told the teacher. Hopefully that would work for her not to stress about it.

I agree about getting this officially added to the IEP.

[jinkies]

It definitely sounds like something was lost in translation. I'm not sure that there is much for you to do now, unless she is in trouble for not turning in the homework?

If a similar situation were to happen again, I would try:

1. Be more clear in the email that your DD will be unable to manage math homework on X dates. If you have a specific idea for how to manage this, such as "can she go to the special ed room during recess and/or during morning work to complete homework"-- I would suggest that.

2. Make sure that both your DD and your parents are very clear about what you worked out w/r/t your daughter not having math homework during this time. Give them instructions as to what to do if homework comes home anyway (text you? send in a note to school? let DD try some work independently but stop when frustrated?)

It sucks. I'm sorry. I also agree with the suggestion about adding something to the IEP re: allowing extra time to turn in work to account for future situations.

[cmeon]

Why did your daughter feel like she needed to bring home the stuff she didn't have a chance to complete in school?

It's understandable that she didn't have enough time to complete the work in school, but if you weren't clear to your daughter that she shouldn't bring any homework home until you were back/during the days you were gone, you can't be mad at the teacher. He thought the SPED teacher was helping her, so he passed it out, right?

[nicolewi]

I’m not sure where the breakdown occurred, as I was really clear in my messages, and had suggested several alternatives, and then reiterated that I understood she would not be bringing homework home. I did not have a Plan B for when homework showed up anyway… I just didn’t consider that possibility. I don’t think this situation will happen again anytime soon, but I’ll be ready next time.

DD wouldn’t consider not doing it once it got sent home, because if they don’t have their homework done, he keeps them in for recess.

It’s in her IEP that we can modify it, so, if she writes “skip” next to some of the problems, we can skip some. But if she just comes in without tge homework he keeps her in for recess.

[waverly]

nicolewi, ugh this guy. Does the district have a philosophy/ policy on keeping kids in for recess?

[longtimenopost]

Was it homework or classwork she didn't finish? That my have been the crux of the issue. From 2nd-3rd grade we established a no-homework policy for DD and some teachers would still send home classwork she didn't finish, not understanding that we didn't intend to do ANY work with her at home (not just that we didn't want actual meant-to-be-completed-at-home homework).

[nicolewi]

It’s homework. It is assigned to do at home.

Unfortunately no district policy about recess. That would be a good idea! He is the only teacher we’ve had who does this as a regular course of action.

[cmeon]

Yeah, both your daughter and your parents should have been looped in- all you had to do was explain that you'd talked to her teachers and everyone agreed that she would just complete what she could at school and that she wasn't to do math homework during the time you were gone.

I would address the homework completion/recess tie, though- that's a terrible policy.

[wanderingback]

Jan 29, 2024 16:03:10 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

It’s homework. It is assigned to do at home.

Unfortunately no district policy about recess. That would be a good idea! He is the only teacher we’ve had who does this as a regular course of action.

Do you know how to quote people when you’re answering their questions in these threads? I’m asking because it’s helpful when reading your posts that often are long-ish and people ask clarifying questions to help you and it’s easier to follow/help you if you quote them when answering. If you don’t know how we’ll happily share

[orval]

I would also clarify with your daughter. It sounds like she may have interpreted things differently. If you said she wasn't doing homework, why did she do it? Just looking at it another way. Did she know she was not supposed to do homework while you were gone?
I know she is only in 5th, but now is a good time to start advocating for herself. The sooner she starts the better. Understandably, teachers can't remember every little detail with the many issues kids have today(mine included!).

[InBetweenDays]

Jan 29, 2024 15:32:09 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I’m not sure where the breakdown occurred, as I was really clear in my messages, and had suggested several alternatives, and then reiterated that I understood she would not be bringing homework home. I did not have a Plan B for when homework showed up anyway… I just didn’t consider that possibility. I don’t think this situation will happen again anytime soon, but I’ll be ready next time.

DD wouldn’t consider not doing it once it got sent home, because if they don’t have their homework done, he keeps them in for recess.

It’s in her IEP that we can modify it, so, if she writes “skip” next to some of the problems, we can skip some. But if she just comes in without tge homework he keeps her in for recess.

Sometimes less is more. Without knowing what your email fully said, providing "several alternatives" may have buried your main point. In the future I would succinctly ask for what you want - your daughter will do her math work in class but won't be doing any homework on dates X, Y, and Z. And since this was planned in advance and she has accommodations listed in her IEP you understand this won't affect her recess time. 

Then as cmeon says loop your parents in to let them know the plan.

[maudefindlay]

It seems possible your DD brought home what she didn't finish with the SPED teacher. I would not assume the teacher told her to take it home to finish.

[mccallister84]

I may be alone on this island, but I don’t think this was a reasonable request to make. If your daughter is supposed to get homework (i.e. there’s nothing in her IEP/504 saying she doesn’t) and you are out of town, I don’t think it’s on the school to problem solve that.


Now, I know it was especially frustrating because you had tried to work it out before hand and it appears that there was some miscommunication but I would just let this one go.

[ellipses84]

I’d be annoyed that you tried to prevent an issue and it still happened, but I probably wouldn’t do anything about it now, like contact the teachers. I would have told my parents and DD to not do it even if it was sent home, and told the teachers any homework that doesn’t get done while I am gone will be turned in late. For elementary school I feel zero guilt telling teachers we will try our best with homework but sometimes we just cannot get it done in the limited time we have at home without causing a lot of frustration.

[cricketwife]

Jan 29, 2024 14:45:15 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I messaged her special ed teacher and regular teacher the week before the trip explaining that it would be hard for my parents to help her with math, and she was feeling very nervous about it. I asked if we could get the work early, and/or if her special ed teacher could help her with it, with accommodations, or what else they could suggest. 
Special ed teacher was super nice and said she was happy to help however she could. Classroom teacher said 
Thank you for the heads up about next week. As Special Ed Teacher stated, we will work with DAUGHTER next week to support her in math.
Have a wonderful trip.

As a teacher, I have written similar things.  THIS 👆 does NOT say they won’t give homework.  So unless they said something else that you didn’t quote here, I think this is on you.  And even if you followed up with “So DD won’t have homework” it doesn’t change what they wrote, unless *they* followed up with “correct, DD won’t have homework.”  *You* saying she won’t have homework work isn’t a decree they have to follow.

I know you have issues with this teacher and if you are painting an accurate picture, I do too.  But really, where did you get “no homework” from “ we will support” ? 

Furthermore, I think that asking the school to find a solution because your child didn’t want to work with her grandparents shows a gross lack of understanding of the demands on teachers and what is a reasonable request. 

[rooster222]

Jan 29, 2024 17:05:18 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

I may be alone on this island, but I don’t think this was a reasonable request to make. If your daughter is supposed to get homework (i.e. there’s nothing in her IEP/504 saying she doesn’t) and you are out of town, I don’t think it’s on the school to problem solve that.


Now, I know it was especially frustrating because you had tried to work it out before hand and it appears that there was some miscommunication but I would just let this one go.

I'm in agreement with this. I was a sped assistant for years and i do reading intervention now but share a room with sped. The sped teacher does not have time to do your dd's homework with her. This would mean she is not seeing the rest of her caseload to make time for this. They should not have over promised though.

Why didn't your parents just send a note back on the homework?

I'd let this go.

[mofongo]

If homework is part of her regular school studies, I’m not even sure I’d ask for NO homework b/c both parents were out of town. It sounds like they did what they could. Maybe discuss it in her next meeting to see if it can be added to her IEP, but I’m still not sure it’s reasonable. 

[CloudBee]

I would let it go.

In the future, if you feel her grandparents can't help her, I would figure out a "phone a friend" option. Lean on another parent if you need to.

I grade a lot of math and only have one child at home doing school with me. Grading worksheets is mind-numbing and takes more time than you might guess. I can see a classroom teacher being completely thrown off any time they need to grade a sheet or two out of order on a delay. If you go on kid-free vacations once or twice a year, I would even consider getting a local middle schooler or teen to drop by for an hour each afternoon/evening to help with homework.

[erbear]

Jan 29, 2024 18:49:05 GMT -5 cricketwife said:

Jan 29, 2024 14:45:15 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I messaged her special ed teacher and regular teacher the week before the trip explaining that it would be hard for my parents to help her with math, and she was feeling very nervous about it. I asked if we could get the work early, and/or if her special ed teacher could help her with it, with accommodations, or what else they could suggest. 
Special ed teacher was super nice and said she was happy to help however she could. Classroom teacher said 
Thank you for the heads up about next week. As Special Ed Teacher stated, we will work with DAUGHTER next week to support her in math.
Have a wonderful trip.

As a teacher, I have written similar things.  THIS 👆 does NOT say they won’t give homework.  So unless they said something else that you didn’t quote here, I think this is on you.  And even if you followed up with “So DD won’t have homework” it doesn’t change what they wrote, unless *they* followed up with “correct, DD won’t have homework.”  *You* saying she won’t have homework work isn’t a decree they have to follow.

I know you have issues with this teacher and if you are painting an accurate picture, I do too.  But really, where did you get “no homework” from “ we will support” ? 

Furthermore, I think that asking the school to find a solution because your child didn’t want to work with her grandparents shows a gross lack of understanding of the demands on teachers and what is a reasonable request. 

This all day. Just because you, a parent, ask for / demand an accommodation that is not in your child's IEP because you are changing the schedule does not mean the teacher has to do it. I would have responded to your email in the exact same way, and would have carried on with my day. Unfortunately, unless you homeschool, it's the teacher's decision whether or not to give homework.

[nicolewi]

Thanks for perspectives. As noted I'm not following up, but it's also clear that people have no understanding (why would you?) of our situation with her learning disabilities and math. It's really not possible for anyone to come into this situation and "help" her at home with math. Also neither teacher pushed back when I asked for options and seemed okay with it; we do have the right to make "homework modifications". Next time (if there is a next time; probably won't be all year) I will be more clear that she won't be doing homework while I'm away.

[wanderingback]

You have no reason to be upset. Unless, there is something in her IEP about no homework?

The teacher said the special ed teacher would work with her, which it sounds like did happen, no? He didn’t say she wouldn’t get homework.

I don’t think it’s fair to make the teacher deviate from his plan in that way because you were going out of town. So every parent can say because of xyz (I’m working late, junior has soccer practice, etc) please don’t send homework home? That is not realistic or fair on the teacher as they’re trying to do their job.

[mccallister84]

Can you have her IEP amended so that she cannot lose recess, period, for any reason?

[nicolewi]

Jan 29, 2024 22:32:32 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

Can you have her IEP amended so that she cannot lose recess, period, for any reason?

I thought about trying that at her meeting this fall, but decided not to. This is the only year the recess thing will be an issue, and we made some other changes to her IEP that were helpful, so I decided just to try really hard to make sure we have the homework done! After some issues early in the year it's been okay so far (although other kids keep losing recess and I think it's crazy for all of them).

[momof2]

Jan 29, 2024 20:45:25 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Thanks for perspectives. As noted I'm not following up, but it's also clear that people have no understanding (why would you?) of our situation with her learning disabilities and math. It's really not possible for anyone to come into this situation and "help" her at home with math. Also neither teacher pushed back when I asked for options and seemed okay with it; we do have the right to make "homework modifications". Next time (if there is a next time; probably won't be all year) I will be more clear that she won't be doing homework while I'm away.

I think more people than you realize understand that there was no way your kid was going to have a successful math homework experience without you there. But none of the teachers promised that no homework would come home. And, for whatever reason your daughter and the grandparents did not feel empowered to just not do it. And the reality is the jerky teacher who takes away recess may or may not have done that if the homework wasn’t done. No one knows what might have happened because there was no meetings of the minds between you, the regular teacher, the special Ed teacher, your kid or the grandparents. You thought there was, but there wasn’t.

It totally sucks that your kid was upset, the grandparents were frustrated and that you feel like you weren’t heard. But it seems like everybody had their own idea of what this all meant.

I agree that you have to be much clearer that you will not do the homework and that there will be no recess punishment. And you need the jerky teacher to say “yep, no punishment for this.”

[nicolewi]

Jan 29, 2024 20:47:46 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I don’t think it’s fair to make the teacher deviate from his plan in that way because you were going out of town. So every parent can say because of xyz (I’m working late, junior has soccer practice, etc) please don’t send homework home? That is not realistic or fair on the teacher as they’re trying to do their job.

I feel like this is unfair. This isn't apples and oranges here at all. This is a kid with a serious math disability and an IEP who absolutely can't do her work on her own. I wouldn't ask for this for any of my other kids (and didn't, even though 3 others were missing school as well).

"Homework modification" IS in her IEP and they are aware of her sensitivity and anxiety about her learning disabilties and they are supposed to working to reduce her stress, which is also documented in the IEP. The teacher is well aware of this. And elementary teachers make individual accommodations and changes for different kids all.the.time. It might not be easy but it's basically part of the job to try your best to meet kids' individual needs as much as possible. 

If he had an issue with my request, I wish he would have made that clear up FRONT so I could have prepared. We offered to do all the work ahead of time, or late. He led me to believe they wouldn't be sending anything home. 

[mofongo]

Jan 29, 2024 23:01:41 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Jan 29, 2024 20:47:46 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I don’t think it’s fair to make the teacher deviate from his plan in that way because you were going out of town. So every parent can say because of xyz (I’m working late, junior has soccer practice, etc) please don’t send homework home? That is not realistic or fair on the teacher as they’re trying to do their job.

I feel like this is unfair. This isn't apples and oranges here at all. This is a kid with a serious math disability and an IEP who absolutely can't do her work on her own. I wouldn't ask for this for any of my other kids (and didn't, even though 3 others were missing school as well).

"Homework modification" IS in her IEP and they are aware of her sensitivity and anxiety about her learning disabilties and they are supposed to working to reduce her stress, which is also documented in the IEP. The teacher is well aware of this. And elementary teachers make individual accommodations and changes for different kids all.the.time. It might not be easy but it's basically part of the job to try your best to meet kids' individual needs as much as possible. 

If he had an issue with my request, I wish he would have made that clear up FRONT so I could have prepared. We offered to do all the work ahead of time, or late. He led me to believe they wouldn't be sending anything home. 

He said they would work to provide support. Maybe an in person conversation would be better than email, a lot of things can be misinterpreted in emails.

[orval]

Jan 29, 2024 23:01:41 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Jan 29, 2024 20:47:46 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I don’t think it’s fair to make the teacher deviate from his plan in that way because you were going out of town. So every parent can say because of xyz (I’m working late, junior has soccer practice, etc) please don’t send homework home? That is not realistic or fair on the teacher as they’re trying to do their job.

I feel like this is unfair. This isn't apples and oranges here at all. This is a kid with a serious math disability and an IEP who absolutely can't do her work on her own. I wouldn't ask for this for any of my other kids (and didn't, even though 3 others were missing school as well).

"Homework modification" IS in her IEP and they are aware of her sensitivity and anxiety about her learning disabilties and they are supposed to working to reduce her stress, which is also documented in the IEP. The teacher is well aware of this. And elementary teachers make individual accommodations and changes for different kids all.the.time. It might not be easy but it's basically part of the job to try your best to meet kids' individual needs as much as possible. 

If he had an issue with my request, I wish he would have made that clear up FRONT so I could have prepared. We offered to do all the work ahead of time, or late. He led me to believe they wouldn't be sending anything home. 

I am not sure where you got the idea they wouldn't be sending anything home.  It was up to your daughter to NOT do the homework assigned to the whole class.  Did you think the whole class wouldn't get homework?  It's not like teachers say NicoleWi's daughter doesn;t have to do it but everyone else does.  Again, I implore you to teach your daughter how to advocate for herself.  It is critical with dyscalculia as no one understands it.  Signed parent of an 11th grader with dyscalculia/dysgraphia.

[wanderingback]

Jan 29, 2024 23:01:41 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Jan 29, 2024 20:47:46 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I don’t think it’s fair to make the teacher deviate from his plan in that way because you were going out of town. So every parent can say because of xyz (I’m working late, junior has soccer practice, etc) please don’t send homework home? That is not realistic or fair on the teacher as they’re trying to do their job.

I feel like this is unfair. This isn't apples and oranges here at all. This is a kid with a serious math disability and an IEP who absolutely can't do her work on her own. I wouldn't ask for this for any of my other kids (and didn't, even though 3 others were missing school as well).

"Homework modification" IS in her IEP and they are aware of her sensitivity and anxiety about her learning disabilties and they are supposed to working to reduce her stress, which is also documented in the IEP. The teacher is well aware of this. And elementary teachers make individual accommodations and changes for different kids all.the.time. It might not be easy but it's basically part of the job to try your best to meet kids' individual needs as much as possible. 

If he had an issue with my request, I wish he would have made that clear up FRONT so I could have prepared. We offered to do all the work ahead of time, or late. He led me to believe they wouldn't be sending anything home. 

It sounds like a big misunderstanding.
What I mean is that he did say they’d work with her extra while you were gone, which seems like it did happen.
I don’t think it’s a huge deal that she still had homework in her bag, as maybe he forgot to take it out her bag? Your parents could’ve sent a note back to the school saying "Susy is unable to do homework this week."

When I said the teacher can’t keep track of who isn’t doing homework for the week I meant that yes they could individualize things like provide extra help which the teacher did, but I do think it’s unreasonable to check every kid’s bag daily to go through to see what the kid is or is not bringing home.

If it was communicated to your daughter she didn’t have to do homework that week then she or your parents could’ve not done it or sent a note back saying "susy isn’t doing homework this week and it’s in her IEP that she not does it." End of story.

Eta: and just to clarify when I said above that other kids might have different reasons for not doing homework and I certainly meant other kids with disabilities might have things like
Sports or a parent working late so they can’t do homework. So again I don’t think it’s reasonable for the teacher to go through everyone’s bag to see what they’re bringing home. Lots of kids have accommodations and I do think the grandparents should’ve been looped in about the situation as that would’ve likely solved the problem.