I need some perspective: Estranged family edition

[circa1978]

On therapy: I was actually just about to start EMDR to work through specific trauma related to my father. I saw a therapist for the first time when I was in preschool after the first time my mom left him. She was aggressive about getting me therapy, so I saw a childhood therapist from 10-18. I have OCD and anxiety so I've been in some sort of mental health treatment most of my life. The way I see it, the childhood therapist helped me live through it. When I had DS, I had to process it in different ways. I think the death of my stepfather has brought up a lot of these feelings again - I feel very unsafe and anxious most of the time and that's why I'm going to try EMDR. It's not crazy that I feel unsafe when for most of my early life I WAS unsafe. But I've rarely unpacked everything that happened for anyone. I've just tried to shove it down.

[sofamonkey]

The like was in support of therapy, and starting EMDR. Huge hugs to you, this is so much too much for one person. ❤️❤️❤️

[namasteak]

100% find another school.

[sparkythelawyer]

OK. First off, I am so sorry for your experiences, I know this all just sucks.

The brother sounds annoyingly pushy. I haven't heard you say, however, that you think the brother is inherently harmful or physically/mentally dangerous to your child, rather he seems to have notions that you all can somehow be one "big happy family." or something. Maybe his one regret in life is that you all got estranged because his brother and mother suck so much. IDK.

On what you have described, I would lay all the info out for your 13 year old and let him decide how he wants to handle it and he should be aware of things before he starts school there. I would not go immediately pulling him, even if the brother reached out, unless I thought either my or my child's physical safety were at risk.

Is he in a role likely to interact with your son, like a teacher? I might leave word with the principal that this gentleman is under no circumstances permitted to act as a guardian or make educational decisions for my child, but that would probably be as far as I go.

Again, I'm sorry.

[cville]

Oh my, what a horrible circumstance.

Personally, I have no idea what I'd do. It feels to me like this guy doesn't really get it. The continued outreach isn't respectful. You have been clear. You know how to find him. But he keeps trying. He likely would want to do the same here if you set a boundary. The difference is that this is a school--that you pay for out of pocket--so there MAY be some superstructure around limiting those interactions that you can to explore.

When do you need to make a decision on next year? This incident has retraumatized you. It seems like you're in the midst of an immediate fight/flight reaction (TOTALLY understandable). While I'm sure whatever decision you make will be the "right" one, here, I wonder of you'd feel better about it if you make a decision after a few therapy sessions.

I'm so grateful that you weren't there.

[wildrice]

Apr 3, 2024 14:27:13 GMT -5 mysteriouswife said:

ML privilege bubble is showing. Swapping schools wouldn’t be on my radar. I would contact the uncle and try to have a civil conversation. Additionally, talk with the teenaged child about what they want to do. The uncle may not have contact with the child if he only handles facilities. You could request there be no contact.

Trauma isn’t easy no matter how long ago it happened. OP have you been in counseling? Can you bring this up with a therapist?

Well, the OP made it sound like swapping schools was something they could choose to do, so I don't think there is necessarily a general assumption that that's something everyone can do. 

One thing about telling the school, just be careful about what you say to them. It doesn't sound like this uncle has actually done anything to harm anyone, so it would be kind of unfair to lead his employer to believe otherwise. I think it's fine to mention it, just make sure you are clear about the fact that this is a general boundary with the whole family and not a reaction to something he specifically did.

[dontlook]

I wouldn’t move my kid. I would let uncle know that your boundaries still stand and you expect him to respect them. I’m not sure what kind of relationship he could develop with your son at school. And even if they hit it off and enjoy seeing each other I wouldn’t support it out of school. So long as everyone is clear, I would keep going and address any issues as they arise. You definitely need to have another talk with your DS so he understands your position.

[maudefindlay]

I generally agree about giving teens a say, but not in this case. I would explain to your DS the history of your family as you did here as I do think he is old enough to understand that. I do not think he should have a relationship with that family. You have no contact and for him to connect with him would involve you/your DH and you do not deserve that. I would just make your son aware of your uncle being at the school and then I would take your Mom up on her offer to ask him not to talk to your son. If he does I would contact administration. I don't think this has to be a reason to rule this school out.

[mysteriouswife]

With your follow up and the immense amount of grief and trauma you are experiencing I now understand why swapping schools would be beneficial.

I want to apologize if my post have caused you any discomfort or anxiety. Please continue to talk this over with professionals and keep an open communication with your H. I wish you nothing but the best.

[mccallister84]

I struggle with telling the school. Unless your family has a restraining order with him it seems unfair to expect the administration to have to monitor his contact with him.

I feel that if you want to enroll your son here you or your husband need to ask him to stay away from your son - preferably in writing. And then if you find he has had inappropriate contact with him - anything beyond what he would have with another student, you get the school involved.

If you aren’t comfortable with a wait and see approach I think you find another school.

[litskispeciality]

Echoing cville, but not tagging for OP's privacy. While it's very hard in the moment, I think taking a step back and making the decision after talking to a professional can help in the hindsight "why did I make that decision that rocked my kids world?"

You have great advice here, and I'm sorry that you have to make this decision. From what you've posted this school seems to have the best supports, location, and consistency for your kid so I'd say that's a pro...however I don't want you to always be hypervigilant about the contact between your uncle and your son once the new school year starts. Perhaps a professional can talk through that privately. I also think a private conversation with the uncle, perhaps with something in writing (email, text) that no communication with your child is to happen unless it's physically required, say they have to clean the gym during an assembly, is a fair start. You don't want him losing his job, but you're making big sacrifices if that makes sense. If the boundaries continue to be broken then you may contact the administration stating that you've handled this privately however it continues to be an issue.

Ugh I'm sending you huge hugs.

[litskispeciality]

TW TW TW

Also forgive me if this is stepping on toes. My DH didn't know his bio dad growing up. His bio dad passed away before DH turned 5. I only know a small portion of the circumstances, however it sounds like DH's mom, sister and DH were in danger if his mom stayed with his bio dad. DH grew up in the same city as his bio dad's family, however his mother kept him away from them. Thankfully this was before social media and the internet so it was easier to keep distance. DH's bio dad's family later found him and they met up, but he was in his 30's at that point, and completely his choice. He's kept a fine line of what events his bio dad's family attends where his mother will be there, and they're all cordial. I say this to mean you're doing the right thing for yourself and your kid. He can always find the family when he's an adult if he so choses, however I think knowing a light version of the reason for distance will help him weigh that decision.

[wildrice]

circa1978, I hope the EMDR therapy is helpful! You deserve to feel safe and not anxious. I am so sorry this is now bringing up additional traumatic emotions for you.

[flygirl]

As the director of facilities, is he around the kids usually?
I don’t know how much you wanted your child to go to this school, vs another one but I think I’d start with your uncle and make it clear that he’s not to approach your son. Since he’s 13 I would rely on your son to make sure this happens and if he doesn’t stay away, I’d go burn the place down with the Principal.

[momof2]

I 100% agree that you need to give your kid more info whether he goes to this school or not.

But even with all the follow up, I would strongly recommend looking at other schools. Folks are totally misunderstanding what a “director of facilities” does. This person can be ANYWHERE on campus at ANY TIME and have a ready made excuse. This person has shown over and over again that they don’t have any boundaries.

Little Johnny runs track - “oh, Im just here to make sure the recent rain didn’t do any damage.”

Little Johnny stands in the car pool line “oh, I’m just here to make sure that everything looks ok in the parking lot.”

And on and on. It would be many times easier if this guy was a math teacher and there were enough math teachers to ask the admin to just avoid that class.

You then have to deal with changing mid year if this is all a big problem. And in the meantime, you are essentially asking a young teen to navigate a boundary with a grown adult who they will see as having some level of power over them and that adult lacks judgment. This would have to be the only possible school that would work for me to set my kid up into this mess.

[DotAndBuzz]

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this.

A few things to think about, just from a completely outside perspective, trying to put a little distance between how this impacts you, and how it impacts your son (2 very different things, I think?)

- Teenagers can be amazingly empathetic. At 13, he's much closer to an age where he can understand things from other people's perspectives, and have empathy for that. Explaining to him why you don't want contact with this man may help him understand where your reactions are coming from.

- young teenagers are also still somewhat black and white thinkers, and can be SUPER direct and blunt. They get a little nugget of information, and can take it to the Nth degree in terms of implication and action. So again, explaining to him your concern may really help him keep his distance if this guy approaches him at school.

- As this is a small private school, that could really work in your favor in controlling the situation. Is there a dean of students/head of school you could meet with to clarify your boundaries? The uncle's position shouldn't put him in much direct contact with kids, so aside from seeing them in the hallway/in passing, there *shouldn't* be much, if any, reason for interaction between them. I'd strongly articulate this, and my expectations regarding contact, and see what they say before moving schools. We're also at a small private school, and to my knowledge, the kids know who the facilities staff are, but don't really have any reason to have extended interaction. They're polite and courteous, but it's not like they have any substantial relationship with them, as far as I know, like they would if it was an office staff member or teacher. If a boundary is put in place, and uncle is made aware, it's his job to lose if he "happens to be around" more than he should be.

[sent]

I have some time to add a few more thoughts. I would not change schools. Education is too important over something like this.

I get you may not feel the "blood is family" sentiment. I grew up in a very lonely nuclear family. Sure my parents had friends but we were always secondary to family of those friends. As adults, that part still holds true with nearly everyone I interact with. It's like anyone with a large family nearly always prioritizes them above their friend group so maybe more people subscribe to the whole "family is blood" than don't. Part of me really wanted to be a part of those large boisterous families from when I was old enough to recognize that they had something different going on than our lonely 2 parents + 2 kids family. I got a little taste of the big family dynamic when I married my spouse. You may not want that but your son might. In today's world where loneliness is a real problem, I would think about leaving that door open for him to interact with them if he wants to, provided you don't think they will wrong him in any way. I think that was the biggest reason my parents didn't let us get too close to any blood family was because they knew there was a high likelihood those people would try to financially take advantage of us as we became adults like they did to our parents when we were kids (their version anyways).

[emilyinchile]

I am surprised by how many "he's old enough to have an opinion" posts there are because while that's true, I think it's also ok for one member of the family to just veto some things. And in this situation, you were personally affected and have a totally understandable strong trauma response to this guy, so I don't think you really need to leave the door open for someone else in your family to make their own choice about someone who is a stranger to them - it's not like you're asking him to ditch a close friend based on your feelings.

That said, I don't know what the right answer is re: the school choice, and I hope that you can find an option that feels right through a bit of time, talking with your H and hopefully therapy if you can get in asap.

[mofongo]

First ((big hugs))
Personally, I wouldn't do anything right now, I'd sit with it and process with a therapist, not sure is emdr would be right for that?

Your son has not experienced the trauma you have, so I would do everything possible to not burden him with too much of the info? If it's your top choice school, and where he wants to go, I'm not sure I'd switch based on current info.

I wouldn't contact the school yet either. I don't feel you should have to reach out again, but your uncle seems to have poor boundaries, so it may be necessary to express clear boundaries to him, either from your or a 3rd party. And then if he doesn't comply involve the school.

Sort of this is poorly written, I'm on my phone at work!

[tacokick]

Apr 4, 2024 9:48:38 GMT -5 sent said:

I have some time to add a few more thoughts. I would not change schools. Education is too important over something like this.

I get you may not feel the "blood is family" sentiment. I grew up in a very lonely nuclear family. Sure my parents had friends but we were always secondary to family of those friends. As adults, that part still holds true with nearly everyone I interact with. It's like anyone with a large family nearly always prioritizes them above their friend group so maybe more people subscribe to the whole "family is blood" than don't. Part of me really wanted to be a part of those large boisterous families from when I was old enough to recognize that they had something different going on than our lonely 2 parents + 2 kids family. I got a little taste of the big family dynamic when I married my spouse. You may not want that but your son might. In today's world where loneliness is a real problem, I would think about leaving that door open for him to interact with them if he wants to, provided you don't think they will wrong him in any way. I think that was the biggest reason my parents didn't let us get too close to any blood family because they knew there was a high likelihood those people would try to financially take advantage of us as we became adults like they did to our parents when we were kids (their version anyways).

The problem with her son having some relationship with this man is that she would have to facilitate it because he is a child. She is estranged from this family (with good reason!) and doesn’t want a relationship with the man herself.

It can be sad not to have a big family for some people but there is no reason to invite people you don’t want a relationship with into your life just because they are related to you.

It’s possible her son might want to seek these people out as an adult, just as you could have (or did?) but right now he’s a kid. It’s okay to keep your children away from potentially toxic situations with people you have a history with.

[joy]

Okay, I’ve taken a lot of time to reflect on this as I realize that I’m in a somewhat (but only somewhat) similar situation.

My child has family members that *I* would 100% say she should have zero relationship with if it were up to me alone. I’ve wondered how to control that, how to make sure that limited/no contact continues as she grows, etc. And the truth that I keep running against is that I cannot. I cannot control her. I have to raise her to make good choices.

The way she will make good choices is by honesty from her father and I. We need to be sure she has the tools and knowledge to understand a healthy relationship from a toxic one. And while I would have no qualms about saying she’d be cut off without further discussion from a pedophile family member, the vast majority of the relationships that are “toxic” live in the world of gray. And this will be true as she grows and meets new people in her life. She will have gray bosses, gray friends, gray partners…

I gotta teach her. And I have to teach her now while she’s young so she can skip a lot of heartache that many of us have endured.

I think I would be honest (to a point) with my child. I would explain what this brother may try to do (contact him a lot) and what some of his reasons may be. I would warn him of certain behaviors that could be red flags. I would be sure that he knows to never keep secrets from you or his father. I would say that if he decides he wants to talk to him, then you guys will have regular check ins about those interactions to be sure things are going okay.

My absolute biggest concern here would be silence between your son and you on this topic and that leads to him seeing this man in secret, meeting your whole family, and him deciding you are MEAN and IRRATIONAL because he has no context.

[sent]

tacokick,I get it. OP was looking for different takes on the situation so I offered mine.

[TR]

Apr 3, 2024 15:20:41 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Apr 3, 2024 14:27:13 GMT -5 mysteriouswife said:

ML privilege bubble is showing. Swapping schools wouldn’t be on my radar. I would contact the uncle and try to have a civil conversation. Additionally, talk with the teenaged child about what they want to do. The uncle may not have contact with the child if he only handles facilities. You could request there be no contact.

Trauma isn’t easy no matter how long ago it happened. OP have you been in counseling? Can you bring this up with a therapist?

Well, the OP made it sound like swapping schools was something they could choose to do, so I don't think there is necessarily a general assumption that that's something everyone can do. 

One thing about telling the school, just be careful about what you say to them. It doesn't sound like this uncle has actually done anything to harm anyone, so it would be kind of unfair to lead his employer to believe otherwise. I think it's fine to mention it, just make sure you are clear about the fact that this is a general boundary with the whole family and not a reaction to something he specifically did.

I agree with this. All of the “tell the school” makes it seem like the uncle is a direct threat to OP’s son. And from everything she’s said, he’s not. He may be an asshole who turned a blind eye to abuse, but he is not a dangerous person himself and it seems like it could create an unfair association in his employer’s mind. And it shouldn’t be their responsibility to manage a staff member’s interactions with a student when there’s no danger there.

[circa1978]

First off, thank you all and sorry for trauma dumping. I really appreciate the varied opinions and I will tell you, I'm hearing a similar mix from my IRL support. cville was totally right and I was deep into fight or flight yesterday. My mom thinks I need to process this with a therapist and I'm giving myself the space to do that because while we haven't applied anywhere else yet, he hasn't even been admitted yet so there is time and there are a lot of possible scenarios for next year.

My mother knows my uncle best and put a few things into perspective for me. One, she emphasized that he is not my father; he's kind person. She's known him since he was 14 (there is a more than 10-year gap between him and my biological father and the sisters) and says life was different for him than it was for them and that essentially there were factors in play that didn't damage him the way the others were. There was nothing he realistically could have done to help her. He was 19 when I was born. The last thing she said to me today was, "He's not the person who hurt you. The person who hurt you is dead."

My MIL has similar thoughts as sent , which surprised me a little because she has cut A LOT of people out of her life. She also worked as a lawyer representing abused women for 30+ years. After quizzing me very closely about if I thought he had the same personality as his brother, her thought was that more family could be an asset for DS. That will happen over my dead body and I don't think DS would have any interest but interesting.

My brother is Hawaii and I don't want to bother him but on the way to the airport, his hot take was that a director of facilities is really more in the office supervising the campus and the facilities workers and wouldn't have any contact with students. He also happens to like our uncle though has become more wary of that side of the family as he has become an adult and is maybe processing some of the same feelings I have.

I don't think I would bring the school into this. He's 65 already and I can't imagine he'll be working much longer. OTOH, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable going to the school and seeing him there. But then again, maybe I NEED to process this. Maybe seeing someone related to me shouldn't send me into a sprial. So, yeah, therapy.

[mrsslocombe]

I’m very sorry that you are facing all this.

I just wanted to add some perspective/caution. My father was abused by his biological mother. After his parents divorce, contact with her and her family was completely cut off. I never knew anything about them, I couldn’t ask about them, etc. I didn’t even find out about the abuse until I was much older (and all I know to this day was that she was abusive, no details).

When I was a teenager I was extremely curious about her and her family. Contact was absolutely forbidden. If the internet had existed back then, I would have done a lot of sleuthing. Had they contacted me, I would have responded, behind my parents back. I was a rule follower and a very good kid, but I would have done it anyway.

So I would be careful about telling your son he can’t have a relationship with them. You absolutely should tell him why you don’t have a relationship with them, and your concerns about him having contact with them. I’d tell him one day when he is an adult, he should make his own choice about how he wants to handle it.

But I wouldn’t “forbid” him from any contact, or asking questions about the family, etc. I just think that creates a temptation to hide things.

If it’s too painful for you to talk about, I think it’s also good to tell him that he can ask your brother or mom or any other family member when he has questions.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Not sure if I have advice, but some things I'd be thinking:

1. Now that uncle saw your dh and ds, if he reaches out to ask if your ds is going to go to school there and would you like to get together now that you are in each others' orbits (thinking things might have changed), and your ds IS going to that school, say you say no, you still don't feel comfortable. Best case scenario, he says I understand and doesn't initiate any further contact with you or your ds. Is he still going to be living rent free in your mind, causing you stress about what if he does try again at some point?
But...
2. If your ds changes schools, and uncle still reaches out and was like, so funny to see your dh and ds, is your ds going to the school? Would you like to get together? And you say no, he's not going there and you still don't feel comfortable. Then uncle still keeps trying to contact you because he's nearby and thinking of you more. Are you going to be mad at yourself for STILL having to deal with the unwanted attention from your uncle even if you ds changed schools?

So I guess the way I see it, if your ds does go to that school, he might have some contact with this uncle through your uncle's job (but it's not likely), but hopefully it wouldn't be anything different than any contact the guy would have with any other student at the school. If you are open and honest with your ds, hopefully he might not even need to mention the uncle to you. But whether he goes to the school or not, it is not really about his contact with your ds, it's about his space in your mind, which you are going to need to deal with now that he has unexpectedly come back up. And it's up to you whether that would be significantly easier if your ds was at a different school.

[circa1978]

LOL, well as an update, he was just admitted.

[mysteriouswife]

You can still change schools if that ends up being the best for your health. You have a few months before school starts. Best of luck on whatever you decide.

[Aloe Vera]

I agree with your mom's take on this and your MIL's. I think this is a good mix.
Your dad's family isn't all bad. Some were/are but not all of them are, like you said yourself. Let your son know what is going on and why you avoid that uncle and the rest of the family. Let him decide what he wants to do with this info. Your son didn't experience the trauma you did so he has no reason to dislike these people. And like your mom said, this uncle isn't reponsible for your trauma. His only wrongdoing is not respecting your boundaries. 

[litskispeciality]

PDQ PDQ

mrsslocombe, you bring up good points. I grew up in an alcoholic household with a tiny blood relation family. As mentioned above I was curious, and often envious of those with big families, and never understood why our few relatively local cousins never invited us to stuff. As mentioned if this was during the time of the internet I probably would have searched them out if I had names, however that was also a trauma response because I always dreamed of getting out of my house to something better. Obviously my family wasn't going to tell me, nor did they probably understand my mom's side cutting us off so to speak, but it was confusing. I had a light bulb moment at my wedding when one of my cousins said "mom looks good", like "oooh that's why you were really limited with us" OTOH bringing that up at my wedding maybe wasn't the best platform, but these folks think they're better than us so...? Also my dad's mother cut me off when I was a kid because she didn't like my mom pre-drinking, so blood family is a big mystery to me. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here, I guess just justifying OP that there are a lot of complicated feelings and nothing seems to make it better.

I don't have kids, but when I was younger and wasn't 100% sure if I would have kids I had to really think through how I wouldn't let my mom near my kids, but still wanted a relationship with my dad, who she was married too. I'm sure I should have seen a therapist, but I was in an anti-therapy home. I never had kids, and now it's just my dad, but that still sticks with me that it's a hard decision to have to make, and I wonder if some of my behaviors are tied to that. As mentioned there can be pressure to feel like you have to be loyal to blood family, even if they're toxic, and that's just not true.

OP in addition to talking through all of these angles and scenarios with a therapist OP I recommend looking in to "detachment" that I learned about through Al-Anon. I'm sure this principle applies outside of addiction. My brother got the hang of that, physically moving across the country for a long time. I know OP can't do that, but the general idea may give you some peace if you're making the right decision to keep separate contact, and/or how to do that if you have to physically see each other sometimes.

My poor H's family is also a huge mess. In addition to losing his bio dad, his mom cut her bio family off when she was older, and my DH still doesn't know why to this day. It's actually kind of awkward because they live in the city where he grew up and now works, so he'll run in to them every once and a while. They're all very nice to each other and he has no hard feelings, but I think it's confusing to not know the why behind the separation. I have no idea what his mom should tell him because it could be really bad, but there's probably a balance in information without overload. I think the idea of a family member sharing a light version might be a good compromise, if OP ok's it, and sets boundaries on what info is shared.