Am I doing napping wrong?

[hannamaren]

You are not in control. Baby makes all the rules. There is no routine. You just go with it and dont make plans that arent flexible.

It took me until 9mths to stop trying to figure out her routine. Then she got a routine.

[ijack]

baby makes the rules

[jenny1223]

We totally didn't have a set schedule until DS was 4-5 months old. I loosely tried to follow the 90 min baby sleep program (http://www.pollymoore.com/) which says that a baby's awake time should be 90 minutes. So no matter what time he woke up, I'd try to put him down for a nap 90 minutes later. It worked great and DS started napping so much more. I think he was getting over tired and then had trouble falling asleep.

[ECB]

At that age... no routine. Doesn't mean to not try! For your own sanity, having a routine is often necessary. But at 1 month - that ain't happening.

I'd just continue to work towards it and hopefully she'll fall into one soon enough.

[Deleted]

DS doesn't really have a routine at 5 months - I mainly try to follow his cues, put him down for naps before he shows signs of being tired, etc. he typically takes a morning nap and then an afternoon nap but it varies, I don't get too worried about it really, as long as he is getting the sleep he needs.

I started pumping when he was 1 month - an hour after the first morning feeding, like you are trying to do - and honestly it took several weeks before I could actually do it on a regular basis - he wanted to be held, or he would last for 10 minutes in the swing, etc. Then at around 2 months it became a lot easier.

[drloretta]

We always followed DD's lead. Especially at that age

[Deleted]

I agree, baby makes the rules at this age. That 6 week growth spurt almost killed me re BFing and a whole lot of other issues. GL!

[gibbinator]

Ds has never napped reliably. Twice he has napped during the day for an hour I'm starting to accept that some babies just don't nap.

[Deleted]

Have you read Healthy Seep Habits, Happy Child by Marc Weissbluth? I like it because it gives a very detailed explanation of typical sleep cycles, how a sleep schedule usually develops for the average child, and what you can do to get your kid on such a schedule.

I had a frustrating time trying to get DS1 to nap during the day and sleep longer at night. When I read that book, suddenly all our problems made sense. I used his tips to get both DS2 and DD on a schedule and was successful early on.

[bunch]

We didn't start a (very loose) schedule until 4 mos and I think that was really early.

[biscoffcookies]

On one hand, you can't make babies sleep. However, are you offering her naps frequently? I had a similar issue with DD, and the problem was that (1) I didn't realize how short wake times should be for tiny babies and (2) I erroneously assumed that DD would just go to sleep wherever/whenever when she was tired, when she is not that kind of baby.

DD has been a super alert baby since she was tiny, and she has trouble falling asleep when there are distractions (true to this day). When she was tiny, I'd keep her with me as I ran errands, or in the living room in the swing/activity mat/in my arms as I watched TV or whatever, and then was so stressed that she wasn't napping. She was doing 2-3 hour stretches of wakefulness, even at 4 weeks. And she wasn't a happy baby either -- she was grumpy, yawning, rubbing eyes, everything, but wouldn't fall asleep in her swing or the carrier or car seat.

At around 4 months, I did some reading and realized that DD was likely overtired from being up too long between naps, which was making it hard for her to fall asleep and stay asleep (although it is not uncommon for babies this age to do short 30-45 minute naps, DD's would sometimes only be 15-20 minutes). Conventional wisdom is that babies under 2 months should only be up for about an hour, for example, although that will vary baby to baby. I started taking her into a dark, quiet room w/white noise and trying to soothe her to sleep after the recommended amount of time, and things definitely improved. She didn't turn into one of these awesome napping babies, but she started sleeping more frequently during the day (although still short naps), which improved her disposition, and it wasn't long before she stopped seeming so tired all the time during the day.

That being said, sometimes babies just do not want to nap, so if you are already giving her the opportunities to sleep and she isn't cooperating, try not to stress!!

ETA: I did take DD into a dark/quiet room to nap before she was 4 months old -- I just typically did it after long stretches, and by that point she was overtired and had issues falling asleep.

[hocus]

At 6 weeks it is what ever works.
By 4 months we had both kids on schedules (slightly different given that we had different situations going on). I know some people really like to go with the flow but for us schedules were really key.

[dcrunnergirl]

I definitely recommend Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Children and The Baby Whisperer. They will give you information on sleep and your babies' needs, and while you may not agree with everything, they do offer good techniques for getting on a routine. At that age, most babies can only stay awake for about an hour before they need a nap. She may be fussy b/c she's overtired.

We were on a 3-hour routine by 1 month, where it was 1 hour of awake time and 1-2 hours of sleeping (being flexible whenever needed). It really made my days so much easier.

[biscoffcookies]

Yes, the wake time includes nursing. Apparently there are babies out there who basically wake up, eat, get changed, and go back to sleep, and the mothers of these babies complain about how bored they are during maternity leave because all their babies do is eat and sleep.

My mind cannot wrap around this. I spent most of my maternity leave trying to get my baby to sleep and entertain her so she didn't fuss. If the the universe is merciful, perhaps I will get one of these mythical sleeping babies next time around.

[dcrunnergirl]

Yup, the awake time should be from the time they woke up to the time they fell asleep. It took me at least an hour to feed my kids so sometimes one kid had to be put down for a nap before I was done feeding the second one.

I generally used these awake times:

community.babycenter.com/post/a8755765/awake_times

www.troublesometots.com/are-you-keeping-baby-awake-too-long/

[egishere]

We were on a feeding strict schedule (FF) but didn't really get into a nap routine until 3 or 4 months old. Give it time.

[gibbinator]

Oct 31, 2012 12:47:15 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

Oct 31, 2012 12:42:40 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

Ds has never napped reliably. Twice he has napped during the day for an hour I'm starting to accept that some babies just don't nap.

twice today or twice ever?

I would die I think. I'm sure I would get used to it but I just can't imagine. Mama needs a break! Although maybe your baby gets used to being by himself for periods unlike little J.

Twice ever (not counting exceptionally long car rides). He also needs me to play with him every 2 mins or he fusses. He's lucky he has a winning smile ;D

ETA: I realized my op is a bit ambiguous, he regularly has 1-2 20min cat naps during the day, but he's only slept for an hour twice ever

[auberge]

Too young for schedule at this point. I think around 5/6 months, my son starting taking two big naps a days on his own. Then about a year, it slowed to one big nap.

[knitty]

Oct 31, 2012 12:27:12 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

I just get so confused with everyone saying - pump an hour after the first morning feeding! Well, she wants to be held during that time, or at a minimum she wants to be interacting with me somehow (like being worn would be fine, but she is not ok being put in a swing for 30 minutes for me to pump).

Maybe I just have a baby who falls on the needier end of the spectrum? Not that I mind, but it does have me confused.

Why can't you hold her any play with her while you pump? Or, to rephrase, most babies could be geld/worn/interacted with wile their mother pumps, I imagine some are scared by the noise.

As far as naos are concerned, the baby is in charge, but so are you. So long as putting them to sleep is gentle and involves cuddling, rocking, nursing etc, then I would push sleep as hard as possible. I love the expression offerring a nap! In general, a baby that age can't be awake for more than two hours, and the time between naps lengthens through the day. The time between naps is shorter if the nap is shorter. The tireder they get the harder it is to get them to sleep. Around that age, with my frequent eater the routine was something like eat, lie on floor for 20 minutes, get fussy, be put in moby wrap, sleep after about 20-30 minutes, sleep for 45 minutes, wake and eat. But it got harder and harder to get her to sleep through the day. Usually the first awake time was about an hour or so. Fussy pretty much always meant tired.

Without having met your baby, I would guess you're missing the first tired signs which would be somewhere from 1-2 hours after waking fir the day, then she is overtired and irritable for the rest of the day.

[jr009j]

Oct 31, 2012 12:52:44 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

On one hand, you can't make babies sleep. However, are you offering her naps frequently? I had a similar issue with DD, and the problem was that (1) I didn't realize how short wake times should be for tiny babies and (2) I erroneously assumed that DD would just go to sleep wherever/whenever when she was tired, when she is not that kind of baby.

DD has been a super alert baby since she was tiny, and she has trouble falling asleep when there are distractions (true to this day). When she was tiny, I'd keep her with me as I ran errands, or in the living room in the swing/activity mat/in my arms as I watched TV or whatever, and then was so stressed that she wasn't napping. She was doing 2-3 hour stretches of wakefulness, even at 4 weeks. And she wasn't a happy baby either -- she was grumpy, yawning, rubbing eyes, everything, but wouldn't fall asleep in her swing or the carrier or car seat.

At around 4 months, I did some reading and realized that DD was likely overtired from being up too long between naps, which was making it hard for her to fall asleep and stay asleep (although it is not uncommon for babies this age to do short 30-45 minute naps, DD's would sometimes only be 15-20 minutes). Conventional wisdom is that babies under 2 months should only be up for about an hour, for example, although that will vary baby to baby. I started taking her into a dark, quiet room w/white noise and trying to soothe her to sleep after the recommended amount of time, and things definitely improved. She didn't turn into one of these awesome napping babies, but she started sleeping more frequently during the day (although still short naps), which improved her disposition, and it wasn't long before she stopped seeming so tired all the time during the day.

That being said, sometimes babies just do not want to nap, so if you are already giving her the opportunities to sleep and she isn't cooperating, try not to stress!!

ETA: I did take DD into a dark/quiet room to nap before she was 4 months old -- I just typically did it after long stretches, and by that point she was overtired and had issues falling asleep.

We had a very similar experience. I really didn't undertand that sometimes you have to take steps to make them sleep. Once we figured it out and added a napping routine, things got a lot better. We have never had a true schedule, but DD typically wants to go to sleep 2 hours after waking up.

Also, one of the other things that really helped getting DD to sleep better was the realization that her tired signs were the same as her hungry signs until she was about 4 months. She would root like she was starving, but she wasn't. I think it was Healthy Sleep Habits that talked about this. So if she had eaten within the last 2 hours, we would try to put her down to sleep before trying to feed her to see if that was actually the issue.

[dcrunnergirl]

Oct 31, 2012 13:28:57 GMT -5 knitty said:

Oct 31, 2012 12:27:12 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

Without having met your baby, I would guess you're missing the first tired signs which would be somewhere from 1-2 hours after waking fir the day, then she is overtired and irritable for the rest of the day.

This is what I'm thinking too. HSHHC will help you discern those sleepy cues so you can tell when she's getting tired. If she's fussy/cranky, she's already past tired and gone onto the overtired/wired stage, making sleeping difficult. Every baby is different. For my kids, if they were yawning or rubbing their eyes, they were already too tired. I knew it was time to put them down when their little eyelids started to get red. That always happened as soon as they started to need a nap.

[knitty]

I found a good article on awake times for you. Please take note they make sure to say "most" and not "all", you're the one who knows your baby best, so don't take any advice as the be all and end all rule to live by, but as an idea you might find useful, which might apply to your family.

Most newborn babies (under 8 weeks) can’t stay awake very long (I sometimes refer to this as a baby’s “window of wakefulness.”) Although it varies by baby, most newborns can stay awake no longer than 45 minutes to 1 hour and 15 minutes. Some may not be able to stay awake more than 30 minutes at a time. This is generally the maximum amount of time you want your baby to be awake at any point throughout the day.

So hypothetically this means that if your newborn baby wakes up from a nap at noon, she will need to go back down for another nap around 12:45. Assume she takes a 30-minute nap and then wakes up (now its 1:15 pm). Then she would be ready to take yet another nap at approximately 2:00 pm.

As babies get older their window of wakefulness (maximum time they can stay awake) gets longer, the naps generally get longer, and the number of naps they need gradually decreases and becomes more predictable.

www.troublesometots.com/are-you-keeping-baby-awake-too-long/

[knitty]

Oct 31, 2012 13:35:52 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

I probably am misreading cues. I think this is why DH is better with the baby than me. I always think she wants food and I end up trying to feed her all the time which sucks for me and doesn't really make her happier.

I definitely should look into these books. Not for getting a schedule, but just for making her happier.

Weissbluth is a pretty bad book to read, it's got some good info, but badly organised, and he pushes CIO for everyone in every situation and tells you crap like a nap in motion is not real sleep. It seems like you're in a pretty vulnerable place right now and that book would probably freak you out. You need loving support, and something that will help you build confidence in your own judgement, not something that will give you scare stories.

Some other books which are more suited to newborns are Elizabeth Pantley or Harvey Karp.

[Deleted]

I also didn't like Weissbluth. If there was advice there, my sleep deprived brain couldn't find it. I also don't really consider extinction advice. Lots of parents figure out how to ignore their baby indefinitely on their own.

ms.starry, I hope you like your LLL meeting. I found spending time with other bf-ing moms IRL helped me be more confident. All I saw online was problems and horror stories. At the 2 different groups I went to, there were problems AND there were people that had been there, done that, got through it, and actually liked breastfeeding. Different LLL groups have different "flavours", so do try to ignore anything that isn't for you. They usually say something like that at the beginning.

RE: naps, my boy was a 45min napper. He didn't break an hour consistently until 9 months or so. So we'd spend all day with him taking his little naps, eating, and getting cranky and wanting another nap. He did settle into more of a pattern with it by 3-4 months. I didn't push a nap schedule until somewhere after 6 months.

[arch01]

We struggled with naps until we did "nap bootcamp" as I affectionately called it at 4 months old. We found, after doing some reading, that he was overtired-we had to anticipate him getting tired instead of waiting for the yawns, rubbing eyes, fussiness, etc. We now rock the 2-3-4 routine. He's pretty predictable (except on DC days) now.

I agree that BMBs exaggerate. Also, we struggled a LOT with low supply. If the baby is gaining wait and eating well, there really isn't a need to worry.

[DarcyLongfellow]

I haven't read the replies, but I think she's too young for naps.

At that age, my DD fell asleep every time she nursed. Then I held her in my lap (sometimes with her still latched on) because if I tried to set her down, she'd wake up screaming.

I wasn't able to get her to nap somewhere other than my arms until around 4 months. By then she was old enough for three naps a day -- morning, afternoon, and evening.

[biscoffcookies]

Oct 31, 2012 13:35:52 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

I probably am misreading cues. I think this is why DH is better with the baby than me. I always think she wants food and I end up trying to feed her all the time which sucks for me and doesn't really make her happier.

I definitely should look into these books. Not for getting a schedule, but just for making her happier.

I definitely wouldn't worry about being on a schedule at this age. We didn't even approach a schedule with DD until she was 5 months old, and even then it was more based on wake times (e.g. we'll try to put her down X hours after she wakes up) versus by the clock (e.g nap time is at 9).

I definitely think it is good to educate yourself about baby sleep (it is so different and weird compared to how we sleep, especially before 4 months!), use naptime and bedtime routines, offer your baby naps after the recommended amount of time, lookout for tired cues, etc. with an eye toward helping your baby sleep and learn to sleep.

HOWEVER, while doing that, try not to fixate or stress or worry too much. For the first 6 months of DD's life, I was absolutely fixated on DD's sleep -- trying to get her to sleep more/longer, worrying she wasn't getting enough over the course of the day (she NEVER EVER has gotten the amount recommended), worrying the sleep she WAS getting wasn't "quality" because her naps were too short or I was having to hold her to get her to sleep or whatever. It made me so unhappy and stressed out.

And then one day when DD was about 5 months old, she stopped taking a bunch of 25-30 minute naps and started taking 2 long naps and 1 short nap a day. This happened literally overnight, and I hadn't done anything different. I definitely think our institution of wake time limits and routines helped, but ultimately it taught me that to a large extent babies will get where they need to go but on their own time, kwim?

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2012 14:12:13 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

Oct 31, 2012 13:35:52 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

I definitely wouldn't worry about being on a schedule at this age. We didn't even approach a schedule with DD until she was 5 months old, and even then it was more based on wake times (e.g. we'll try to put her down X hours after she wakes up) versus by the clock (e.g nap time is at 9).

I definitely think it is good to educate yourself about baby sleep (it is so different and weird compared to how we sleep, especially before 4 months!), use naptime and bedtime routines, offer your baby naps after the recommended amount of time, lookout for tired cues, etc. with an eye toward helping your baby sleep and learn to sleep.

HOWEVER, while doing that, try not to fixate or stress or worry too much. For the first 6 months of DD's life, I was absolutely fixated on DD's sleep -- trying to get her to sleep more/longer, worrying she wasn't getting enough over the course of the day (she NEVER EVER has gotten the amount recommended), worrying the sleep she WAS getting wasn't "quality" because her naps were too short or I was having to hold her to get her to sleep or whatever. It made me so unhappy and stressed out.

And then one day when DD was about 5 months old, she stopped taking a bunch of 25-30 minute naps and started taking 2 long naps and 1 short nap a day. This happened literally overnight, and I hadn't done anything different. I definitely think our institution of wake time limits and routines helped, but ultimately it taught me that to a large extent babies will get where they need to go but on their own time, kwim?

This was us too, cookies said it way better than I ever could.

[pugz]

I haven't done much reading, as I feel like it increases my anxiety and make me feel like I should be doing more, instead of just going with the flow and following baby's cues.

the one book I have read is the Happiest Baby Sleep Habits, it builds on the info in Happiest Baby on the Block. For the 0-3 month phase (the 4th trimester) he emphasizes swaddling & white noise for all naps and overnight, as well as the other S's to soothe as needed. We swaddle for all sleep but only use white noise at night. He also really encourages you to start putting baby down drowsy but awake. He says rocking them to sleep is fine, but right before setting them down, jostle them just a smidge so they are not fast asleep, and then put them down and let them fall asleep again.

Squirms still needs a nap between every.single.bottle. Only once did she stay awake between feedings but it was probably a fluke Some of her naps are just 15 min long, most are 30 minutes, and she takes one long one a day, like 2 hours.

Since she needs to eat every 2-3 hours it does make leaving the house kind of difficult, but she can nap in the car so I let her do that sometimes, then feed her at our destination (or feed her right before we leave, nap in the car, then she's happy and awake for about 45 minutes until we get home.

[Brie]

My kid does not nap either. He's been up since 7:30. It's now 4 pm and he hasn't slept for more than 15 minutes. Usually he will at least snooze in the Ergo but today he clawed his way out. It's exhausting.

We are currently laying on the bed with white noise on. He is gleefully spitting his paci at me, wiggling out of the swaddle, and howling because he's so tired.