I need you guys to help me rationalize this.

[Deleted]

I agree w/ Fuss. Have you talked to your therapist about what happened to your insurance? Some therapists offer sliding scales of their fees based on whether or not the patient has insurance. If your current one does not, I'd start looking for someone in your area who does.

[starrieskies]

Nov 8, 2012 16:25:35 GMT -5 mags said:

I'm going to side eye you...

I side eye me to, mags.

[imoan]

starrieskies- I'm very proud of you for the way you're owning this. You're not defending your husband... you're making yourself hear the difficult truth, even though it's painful to hear. For that, I give you a LOT of credit.

This is what you need to realize... your H's anger wont just end with 3 year old tantrums. Yes, toddlers try their parent's patience like you wouldn't believe. But it'll always be SOMETHING. Your son wont hit this magical age where he's less demanding/annoying... he'll just be demanding/annoying about DIFFERENT things. And the older your son gets, the more he realizes your H's issues and the more he'll pull away from him and be terrified of him. I'm not saying DTMFA (although it's my first instinct)... I'm saying that this is a long-lasting issue and I don't know if it'll even be fixed by counseling. Any man who will throw things around a 3 year old out of frustration will have no problem punching a 14 year old in the face (maybe he missed his curfew by 10 minutes, maybe he talked back like regular teenagers do, maybe he got a C on a math test). Maybe that's a little far... but that's kind of how I feel.

[starrieskies]

Nov 8, 2012 16:33:54 GMT -5 fussbucket said:

I think you're getting lip service and he has no intention of changing because he thinks he's right after all.

This is unfortunately what I have come to realize too. It was a fairly recent revelation and I'm kind of going back and forth between beating myself up for not seeing it sooner and trying to pretend like it's not happening. I know that neither of those things are really helpful, but that's where I am.

I do have a consultation appointment with a lawyer scheduled for early next week though.

[aliceinfairyland]

I want to jump on the "think of your son" bandwagon. Even if your DH doesn't ever hit your son, it will absolutely fuck your kid up if he can't connect with his father, or if he can never get his father's approval. I don't know backstory at all, so excuse me if I am speaking out of turn, but are there parenting classes that your husband could take so he knows what to expect from a 3 YO?

Even if you get counseling, your DS is going to have to deal with this guy for the next 13 years at minimum. There needs to be some something addressed so he knows how to deal with kids and his anger.

[gault]

I think you are half hoping for the "just toddler behavior" justification and half wanting the ok from an outside source to pursue a divorce.

The divorce might be more difficult, but if you're living in fear that your H might lose control and throw something around, and it hits your son, or if he actually graduates to hitting, shaking, arm-twisting...nothing good can come of feeling terrified in your own home.

It sounds like you've done all of the back-work in discussions, counseling (both individual and couples), etc. You've done the work you need to do, and it hasn't gone away. I think you know the best steps to take, at this point.

I'm really happy you have a lawyer appt. When you feel ready to post about the other stuff, we've got your back.

[smock]

Does your H know that you are seriously considering divorce over this? I'm wondering if that will help him realize that this isn't just "my wife is a pushover and doesn't get that I don't have a problem."

[smock]

dupe, whoops

[starrieskies]

Nov 8, 2012 17:40:10 GMT -5 smock said:

Does your H know that you are seriously considering divorce over this? I'm wondering if that will help him realize that this isn't just "my wife is a pushover and doesn't get that I don't have a problem."

We've talked about it before. It was the main reason he agreed to go to anger management. However, I suspect that he was less than honest with his counselor, and his counselor was less than qualified. Now that he got the therapist to say that he's "cured", he says I'm the one with the problem, not him.

ETA: The appointment next week is just a consultation to see what my options are, and gather information. I don't want to jump ship and THEN remember my life jacket. I did some research and a lot of reading while I had that time off last week, but I still want to talk to someone.

[fussbucket]

I am glad to hear you're thinking about taking some steps in a different direction.

Try to look at your H's anger objectively and ask yourself, Where do you think he learned this? Why did this become his coping strategy for life? Maybe it was how his own parents acted or treated him, maybe it was something else. Either way, if your DS grows up seeing this behavior as a model and seeing it validated by you, he will grow up to be an angry and volatile man too, with a wife walking on eggshells and your grandchildren fearing his next outburst.

[starrieskies]

Fuss, without a doubt he learned it from his father. His mom has threatened to leave his dad more times than I can count, but never has. So, I'm not sure that he really ever took me seriously when I said that I was going to leave. I think he just went through the motions without any real effort and thought that it was good enough.

[Muddled]

I'm late, so no advice. I wanted to wish you strength and luck as you deal with this. Hugs.

[geekgirl]

I just wanted to pop in and say I'm sorry you're going through this and I'm proud of you for taking the steps needed to see what your options are.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that while your H's behavior will affect how your son see him, it is also going to make him feel like he wasn't worthy enough for YOU to protect him.

I'm soooo not trying to make you feel guilty. Not in the least. I just wanted you to be aware that our kids see both parents' actions.

I know I'm not on quite as much as I used to be; just wanted to let you know my heart goes out to you. This is not an easy situation. We're here for you, OK?

[maucat]

Starrieskies, I think it's great that you're really looking at your situation and I think the others have made some very good points. I just wanted to let you know that I, too, am here for support if you need it. Good luck and stay safe and strong. Come to us if you need reinforcement.

[statlerwaldorf]

I really just don't believe any therapist would see someone a couple times for anger management and say oh you're cured. It really worries me because therapy isn't very affected for someone who is abusive and that includes emotional abuse.

Kids are weird and they say weird things. DD had been carrying on all day about how angry she was that DH accidentally broke this little tiara of hers. Sometimes she will call us mean if we are not letting her get her way, but she's never said anything like that without it being directly after discipline or whatever. She goes through phases where she wants one of us over the other.

I think you know deep down that this wasn't a weird kid thing. Kids pick up on more stuff than we give them credit for. They aren't very good at expressing themselves, but this is pretty significant imo.

[partiallysunny]

No advice other than what has already been stated. Just that I'm proud of you for taking these first steps.

[ECB]

I clearly missed alot from when I first responded. I could "quote" most of these responses. I, too, am glad to see how seriously you're taking this and that you realize there is a real issue.

As your DH grew up w /a dad like this w/ a mother who threatened to leave but never did - yeah, he doesn't take your threat of divorce seriously either. Honestly, I want to say kick him out. If nothing else, to shake him up and make him REALLY realize how serious this is. It could be the first step to divorce, or it could be the first step to waking hiim up that this is serious and that you are NOT his mother and you won't put up w/ it anymore.

And along w/ more counseling on his part, anger management, etc, I think he needs a child development course thrown in there too.

Good luck.

[10nille]

I'd be sure to ask the lawyer for supervised visits should it come to a divorce and custody. At least until he completed some classes.

[starrieskies]

Thanks everyone. I'm making a list of questions to ask and things that I want to talk to the lawyer about tomorrow. I'm afraid if I don't, I'll forget something important. Any suggestions?

I also had a great talk with my bff this weekend. It was awfully theraputic to spill everything that's been going on. I followed pp's advice and pulled together an emergency bag with essentials for myself and DS and she's keeping it for me. It's not enough for a long term stay, but enough for a couple of days at least. H doesn't know where her new apartment is, so there's minimal risk of him discovering that it's there.

My therapist is not in today, but I'm going to call her and talk to her about the insurance and see what we can do.

[cuddlyevil]

Ask the attorney about division of assets, how should you handle money in terms of an escape plan (should you start a separate account and move money over? etc.). Will there be any consequences if you just up and leave with DS?

How should you document any of the anger issues and/or his interactions with your son.

[Muddled]

I'm so glad you have someone IRL that you can rely on.

[margarita]

I'm so glad you were able to lean on someone IRL and talk about this safely. It sounds like she has your back.

Best of luck at the appointment this week. I hope it goes well.