Those large ships are staffed by such small crews that it's amazing what they were able to do in that time period. I'm certain since they had just left the dock that their full crew was awake and on deck so to speak. It must have been insanely stressful for them as well.
An absolute disaster.
They stage crew at the anchors while traversing in and out of port & bridges so they can drop an anchor and try to arrest momentum in an emergency. It sounds like the crew were where they were supposed to be and did what they were trained to do in an emergency. It just wasn't enough this time.
He shows maps which will show just what is accessible and what isn't and you can extrapolate why it would be incredibly difficult to just relocate 695 and build a new bridge in a different place. It does include footage of the collapse itself, just to warn anyone who doesn't want to see it.
For a collapse of this magnitude, do they scrap it all and start over? Work with what remains?
Would they consider rerouting the road so the bridge can be built in a new location and start construction sooner?
I'm guessing if there's anything at all salvageable they'll do what they can to use it, but I could equally see them saying might as well start with 2024 tech. Like how people buy teardowns because renovation is more difficult and costly than new construction sometimes
I don't think you can guarantee that the remaining pilings are in good condition after the forces exerted during the collapse. They may be able to salvage the road on the ground, but anything over the water will need to be redone. We won't know for sure though until it can be inspected, including underwater and that is not going to be an easy task. The bay water is really murky even in good conditions and to dive and inspect is very challenging in the best of times. Usually they have to bring is specialists for any dive work in the bay. As for building it in a different spot, I guess it's possible but I don't see how. It's a major city, there isn't anywhere they can go, no easy empty land anywhere near there. It's a lot of city property, the port, and a lot of private industry, including coal.
And, frankly, I think rebuilding ASAP is unlikely. Maybe they can start within a year, but even a rebuild needs to be planed and checked over. They can fast track some of it, but design and then sourcing materials can still only go so fast.
jlt19, that span of the bridge is something like half a mile long. The entire bridge is a mile and a half. Plus no way to get a message to them easily. I doubt there was time to get them evacuated.
Also of note for this board (I'd not bring this up right now in a different place because it feels mercenary, but this is what we talk about here) our state transportation budget was already facing cuts. So just add that to the pile of suck.
I think it's 100% valid to note. Forget money to rebuild, the strain this is going to put on the other roads is going to be noticeable, and that is going to increase wear and accidents. Add in loss of revenue from the port and it's not going to be an easy time. Plus if they think it will take 6 weeks to remove the debris and dredge the channel, there's a good chance many of the port workers will get laid off and then unemployment gets to pick up the slack so to speak. The ripple effect this is going to cause is going to be staggering.
Fucking hell the conspiracy theories are unhinged. (EDIT: on the greater internet, not conspiracy theories here on GBCN)
The longer answer on tugs: There weren't any tugs escorting the ship at the time, no (As far as I and H are aware). Tugs are usually used at the docks to get the ships moved in and out of the port itself. They can be used to go through the bridge and other spaces that are tight. They aren't usually used at this bridge AFAIK. The Dali DID have a Chesapeake Bay captain piloting, as is required by law. So a local expert who navigates the area professionally*. He did call a mayday which allowed the bridge to close and undoubtedly saved lives. Initial reports say that the ship was going 8 knots which I believe is above the speed limit around bridges which if my memory is correct is 5 mph (about 4 knots). Whether that was a factor is not known. The current could be responsible for the speed and without power it may not have been able to compensate. At that speed, even if there were tugs they may not have been able to provide enough force to prevent this.
*the Evergreen/Everfoward what ever it was also had a Bay pilot . He was confirmed to be on his phone texting and missed where he should have turned to follow the channel.
Also, boats need forward momentum to steer. If you loose your engines, you're pretty much dead in the water and and the mercy of both the wind and the current. There are secondary steering mechanisms, like smaller thrusters, but again they won't work in a power failure, and they can only provide so much force.
They may be able to use tugs to get the Dali out of where it is now, but they need to get the portion of the bridge off it first and assess the hull. To do that they need a barge with a big crane to lift the piece off. There's only a handful in the world capable of it, apparently one is close-ish but it's still going to take a few days to get here. Then they have to determine what it's resting on, whether the piling, sea bed, mud, rock, etc. If the hull is comprised that's a whole other level of complexity. The parts of the bridge itself will need to be removed, and that's probably going to involved underwater crews to cut it into manageable parts, cut the steel trusses off, grind through the concrete, and then pull it up with the big barge crane and haul the parts out. You can't leave it since it will take up space the ships need to pass through, not to even mention the environmental impact of leaving it in the bay. Maybe you could pull it to the side and make an artificial reef, but again, environmental impact.
And speaking of the environmental impact, that 100% did some damage to the seabed. Most of the bay is mud and muck and silt, it undoubtedly kicked up a ton into the water that needs to settle out. It's going to make visibility awful down there. It's going to impact all the fish that live not only in the river but the larger bay as a whole. Plus lord known what it's going to do to blue crabs and oysters. And it won't stop impacting them because it's going to stir up the bottom even more as they pull it all back up.
Short answer on tugs is no. Longer answer will wait until I get to a real keyboard. Also the environmental impact here will be huge, which i dont see anyone brining up yet.
www.charts.noaa.gov/PDFs/12281.pdf & www.charts.noaa.gov/PDFs/12280.pdf I was trying to find a map that shows just how narrow the cargo shipping channels are, this is the best I found so far. The white channels in the water are the cargo lanes, where these ships will fit. They are incredibly narrow, especially if the current is strong and the wind is up. And ship sizes increasing only make them more difficult to navigate.
H and I discussed this too. We're kind of just assuming it's because of increased traffic in the shipping channel combined with the fact that the channel in the bay is very narrow and hard to navigate. But yeah, seems like something needs to be investigated so these kinds of incidents don't continue.
It seems from video that this ship had a power issue, resolved it, then continued under the bridge where it had a second failure which then caused it to hit the bridge. H is livid; as soon as the first failure happened they should have stopped/returned to port and not continued to the bridge. If that is indeed the case, this would be pilot error, same as Evergreen, and jumping to conclusions I'd say the shipping companies are too focused on profits to respond appropriately to accidents like this.
Ships like that don't have brakes. There's a good chance that they were trying to slow down and maneuver but had no chance of stopping the forward movement of the ship. I will be interested to see if they had alerted authorities ahead of the crash. I feel absolutely terrible for the workers on the bridge and the drivers. What a disaster.
@villianv I was just prepping to leave the house when my nephew texted me that “Francis Scott Key bridge collapsed.” I was so confused because no one local calls it that, just the Key Bridge. It was just disbelief and he must be talking about another FSK bridge somewhere. The H sent what would have been a cryptic text with the key bridge context.
We moved about 3 year ago. But we’re close enough I suspect we would have been woken up, if not from the crash from the helicopters. Or at least the dogs would have been. And I would have tried to get to work and likely given up within a mile bc of the traffic mess. We were at Quarantine Rd.
I’m still in shock and can’t process. But also, I did think about the pilot that ran aground in the Evergreen 2 years ago. And it’s weird to have two pilot mishaps here.
H and I discussed this too. We're kind of just assuming it's because of increased traffic in the shipping channel combined with the fact that the channel in the bay is very narrow and hard to navigate. But yeah, seems like something needs to be investigated so these kinds of incidents don't continue.
It seems from video that this ship had a power issue, resolved it, then continued under the bridge where it had a second failure which then caused it to hit the bridge. H is livid; as soon as the first failure happened they should have stopped/returned to port and not continued to the bridge. If that is indeed the case, this would be pilot error, same as Evergreen, and jumping to conclusions I'd say the shipping companies are too focused on profits to respond appropriately to accidents like this.
H is caught up and coherent, 7 construction workers on the bridge, 4 cars**. 2 ppl rescued.
Going to be a week before they can even move the cargo ship. Likely months to get the debris clear, despite everyone saying weeks, it's likely to close the port for much longer. And then years to rebuild the bridge. The entirety of the bridge is 1.5 miles long, and an entire footing/piling is now compromised. It's probably going to have to be redesigned and rebuilt from scratch (that's my assumption not an official statement).
**I'm going to add that this is now like third hand info, so don't take it as gospel, though the 2 rescued is being reported by the news.
I gasped, it literally was like a scene from a movie.
Do we know what the deal is with the ship? I saw something that said they had no power, but nothing confirmed.
I havent seen anything yet, but it's true that the lights on half the ship appear to cut out shortly before it starts going off course. I did read that the hull is breached and theres a smell of fuel. The article noted it wasnt yet clear if the breach was below or above the water line. Now that its light we should atart getting more information.
Just watched the video. Do not recommend if you have anxiety driving over bridges. It's BAD. It's a significant portion of the bridge that just falls into the water. Heartbreaking. I did end up waking up H and I heard him call into work just to see if they needed him. He didn't get out of bed so I'm assuming it was a no. Today is the opposite shift day from his so it was unlikely but still possible.
Looking forward, it's going to take so long to rebuild and affect traffic so bad. For those not local, the bridge is part of 695, which is the highway that rings Baltimore. It's also a major shipping route for trucks that aren't permitted on other routes in Baltimore. Any ships going into the port of Baltimore have to go through that part of the River, too.
donutsmakemegonuts, I do not understand people who let their dogs bark and bark and bark, and I'm a dog person! The minute Anna would start barking we'd be bringing her in (except if she was barking at solicitors, then she was just doing her job).
Also theres a sew vac (https://www.sewfair.com/) in ellicott city with a repair service that I've used and 10/10 reccomend, but they sell 99% quilting cottons. Selection is great if youre a quilter.
Edit: i also have a love/hate relationship with the comubia joanns
I also bring one of these: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LS5R6OS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 when I travel. Makes plugging everything in easier. This one is unavailable obviously and if you are going international you'll need to consider the outlet types, but it makes charging everything so much easier in the hotel since I don't have to go hunting for more than one outlet.
Otherwise, I have a semi-local fabric store that has been in business for-fucking-ever that I will make the hike too when I need to treat myself. Indi fabric design and sellers (usually preoder, sadly). For vinyl My Punk Broidery or More Me Know are my top two, but there are lots more I love if you need that. knitfabrics.com for knits & rib.
Went through this three times with our girl. First repair (a tightrope) didn't work. Second two surgeries were TPLO and they were fine. Recovery was surprisingly easier with the TPLO. Best advice is crate train/confine and follow the therapy exercises and schedule to a T. Also don't hesitate to bring it up with your vet if you think it's not healing right. If I'd done that we would have had the failed surgery corrected 6 months earlier and saved her a lot of pain.
There's two moms with 1 year olds playing on the floor at the library where all the 3+ toys are, and it's pissing me off*. They've got giant bags, snacks and wipes spread out and theres no room for the bigger kids. Meanwhile the infant/toddler play area 20 ft away is empty. I'm seeiously annoyed.
* They're between the play kitchen and the play grocery store, which is the main play area. Grumble grumble.
mala, I used to joke with a guy in the Registrar/Records Office that he and I were going to have a second career consulting for a big company that ran the software we all used. We'd get paid a lot more money to sit in conference rooms and finally have someone listen to our ideas as good ideas, rather than wait for it to be someone else's idea a while later.
I know I'm hard on the younger folks, but I really hope they're able to change the general mind set that it has to be someone higher up's idea. Good ideas lead to more productivity regardless who throws it out there.
That's the terrible thing, these were 16-22 year olds with only a few years of job experience vs me, in my 30s with 10+ years of job experience in food & customer service. These weren't people older than me with a ton more experience. And it wasn't a sexism thing because they were mostly female. I also had seniority. So... fuck my ideas I guess.
Two bosses ago would dismiss all my ideas. Then a week, month, year later when someone else suggested the same thing it was the greatest idea ever. Still bitter. She then let two kids (20 and 17) completly run over her and essentialy start running her business and aliented most of her staff by harrassing everyone who didn't meet their standards for how fast they worked. Myself included.
Last boss I swear didn't listen to a damn word I said. I told her for months the workload was too high for just me, and I was not willing to increase my hours. When she texted me about when I'd be into work 5 days a week like it was a done deal I put in my two weeks and cut all contact. I was working 4 days making 90% of the product she was selling, and I needed that day off for shopping and apointments since covid was still raging and I couldn't/wouldn't take the kids anywhere, she was also paying me $15 an hour and I'd never had a raise so fuck that.
In tonight's edition of "Why the Fuck Did it Take Until I Was Almost Fucking 40 to be Diagnosed with ADHD":
Didn't eat with the kids Put little one to bed Stare at fridge to figure out what I have the spoons to make for myself for dinner (nothing, the answer was nothign) Put A pot of water on the stove to boil water for ramen Go to living room and pick up phone to set timer so I don't forget I have water on the stove Before setting timer, see text from Husband Open Computer to respond with longer text on the laptop See phone in hand Scroll Instagram for a minute Remember to text husband back to Instagram CRAP DIDN'T SET TIMER Now set timer so pot doesn't boil dry
I order 1lb bags from davidson tea, but I'm brewing a big pot of loose leaf every day. They have tea bags too and a large selection. My favoites are the Dragonwell Green and the Green Chai, but neither are low/no caffeine.