"expression through clothing and style" is HIGHLY over-rated. Unless you are Lady Gaga.
A girl in shorts and a tank top wearing Uggs like 98% of the other girls in her class is really expressing her own unique personal style there.
lol I agree with this actually.
I just want her to be able to wear whatever tights I can get my hands on that won't look like she low crawled her way across the jungle at the end of the day.
DH went to a school with a dress code (polos and khakis). It was fine until he got into high school and got so tall that his shirts wouldn't stay tucked in and he started getting demerits and detentions because he was so tall and his shirt would never stay tucked in.
I guess I'm neutral, leaning towards pro. Even though I went to a Catholic high school, we didn't have uniforms, just a strict dress code. Many of my classmates came from Catholic elementary schools with a dress code. I guess my high school's elementary feeder school finally instituted uniforms (from Lands End) over a strict dress code a year or two ago, which I guess is easier for the parents. You can only buy khakis, skirts, and shorts (and polos) from 1 retailer, so there's no competition over brands, no question about whether the cargo-style khakis are really in dress code, etc.
That said, wearing sneakers, a long skirt, and a t-shirt or sweatshirt would technically have been within dress code at my high school. Letter of the law vs. spirit of the law (looking presentable).
I really don't know where I stand anymore on this. I used to be all pro uniform because the idea of a child not being able to keep up with the Jones made my heart hurt but I also realize that dressing in what they like may make them more productive and attentive.
I know I couldn't concentrate with tacky polyester wool blend stuck to my ass itching my to death.
I honestly don't know if the whole designer/keeping up with the Joneses thing is the best justification for uniforms. Kids will still be able to display their wealth or lack thereof. Kids will still be able to "express" themselves in other ways. If they want to, they'll do it.
Now, a kid won't get made fun of for the teddy bear t-shirt or ruffled leggings, no.
IT'S NOT MORE EXPENSIVE. You people are really this dumb?
How again is it not more expensive to buy a school wardrobe and a separate wardrobe for non-school days and activities? And LOL at "you people."
Because you don't need as many clothes. I had 1-2 pairs of jeans when I was in high school. Because I didn't wear them to school, they were only for weekends. Unlike public school, non-dress code kids, who could have had a dozen pairs because they lived in them, you know? You only need so many pants and shirts because you can only wear so many in a given period of time.
I can totally see being upset about not having as much control over the price of clothing or the quality if your school requires you to buy from a certain retailer, though.
Uniforms are cheaper overall and easier to manage. SD only ever needed about 3 uniform skirts and 5 tops. She's wore the same skirts for 7-10th grade. No need to buy more and I can consign them and make some $$$ back.
"expression through clothing and style" is HIGHLY over-rated. Unless you are Lady Gaga.
A girl in shorts and a tank top wearing Uggs like 98% of the other girls in her class is really expressing her own unique personal style there.
In my "perfect school" that outfit would not fit dress code, anyway.
But, regardless, that girl has a choice on what to wear. She chooses to look like her peers, great, that's still a style. She can continue to follow the crowd, or find her own unique style.
She can also learn its not appropriate to wear short shorts when she gets sent home from school or has to wear something from the community clothing pile. Instead of finding out that a low cut top is not appropriate work attire when she gets called into her bosses office.
When I was in 4th grade, my sister in 1st, my mother decided that she didn't want to buy us normal school clothes. Instead she bought us a few pieces of navy and white school uniforms to wear. Which would have been okay but we were the ONLY kids in school wearing uniforms.
4th grade girls are mean, so I was tortured about my clothes, but she wouldn't let us wear anything else but navy skirts/shorts and a white blouse.
I had uniforms in high school and loved them as a kid. We had to buy certain skirts and could wear our own solid colored oxford shirts. They held up really well, but I don't think they were cheaply made. So my parents probably didn't save money but I still think it was worth it for the convenience. Then again my school had a strict non-casual dress code that was really hard to work with before the uniforms. Anything was better than that. People now buy their uniforms from upper classmen, so that would save money, but i know not everyone can do that. Dictating certain color pants/tops would be a great compromise option.
Post by laurenpetro on May 29, 2012 14:10:20 GMT -5
i think the uniform store clothing, while hideous, was actually better made and is more resistant to stains. at least, it was when i was in HS. i got all of my uniforms pieces my freshman year and only had to replace 1 long sleeved shirt, my socks because i always lost them, and had to get a senior year sweater (which i stole from Lost & Found on the last day of my junior year. no way a senior was coming looking for that thing). and shoes. i wore docs for 3 of my 4 years.
so i guess what i'm telling you, habs, is to encourage your kids to steal, and you'll be all set.
seriously, my nephews are in uniforms (white shirts) and are fucking SLOBS. my sister lives for the entire Oxy Clean line, both sprays and the powder. would this possibly help? with the stains, not the rips obviously.
I had the same skirts from freshman year on and they lasted all through high school. They weren't bad comfort wise, either. I had 3 skirts total for school, and I wore them every day for 4 years. I think I only washed them once a week, too.
Anyway, I don't think it cost my parents more to have separate wardrobes for me. I just had a lot less of each. I remember going away to college and never having enough to wear b/c usually I wore a uniform 5 days per week. Summer clothing styles were easier b/c I had more of those, but winter stuff was harder (and of course, I did not go south for school - I went north).
I loved having uniforms throughout school. I went to different school district for my junior year of HS that didn't have uniforms. I loved it for about a week, after that I missed uniforms. It was so much easier not having to worry about getting an outfit together each morning.
We had uniform stores everywhere in town so they were easy to come by.
When I was in 4th grade, my sister in 1st, my mother decided that she didn't want to buy us normal school clothes. Instead she bought us a few pieces of navy and white school uniforms to wear. Which would have been okay but we were the ONLY kids in school wearing uniforms.
4th grade girls are mean, so I was tortured about my clothes, but she wouldn't let us wear anything else but navy skirts/shorts and a white blouse.
I wore uniforms for 4 years and no one I knew liked them. It was just as expensive, since the uniforms weren't cheap and I needed non-uniform clothes. It didn't reduce any keeping up with the Joneses, because instead of focusing on what top & bottom you had, we focused on shoes, hair, jewelry, back-pack, car your parent drove, etc.
It didn't make anything better and was just an added burden.
We go to a public charter school which utilizes uniforms, and I LOVE it:
Think of how brainless it is for DH to dress the kid(s) in the morning... I don't need to dread the combinations he'd come up with.
EASY for teaching staff to keep an eye on kids when they're on field trips.
Thus far our experience was just K, but it really did seem to cut down on distraction or segregation kids might have done via how they dressed.
They had a "Spirit Week" where they could wear a costume one day, any character shirt the next day, and so on... the kids were SO excited for it and really enjoyed it!
I have no problem with it, and coming from a kid who couldn't really afford all of the mainstream clothing lines growing up and who gets the kids second-hand clothes/shoes, I'm a huge proponent of it.
While I understand all the practical and safety reasons for requiring them, I really hate them. It's such a shame to deprive children of such a huge area of self-expression during the few short years of their lives that they can express themselves relatively freely. It's the same reason I'm all for teenagers having blue hair--enjoy it while you can, before the world beats all traces of individuality out of you!
While I understand all the practical and safety reasons for requiring them, I really hate them. It's such a shame to deprive children of such a huge area of self-expression during the few short years of their lives that they can express themselves relatively freely. It's the same reason I'm all for teenagers having blue hair--enjoy it while you can, before the world beats all traces of individuality out of you!
I wish my mom had that attitude. She absolutely forbad me from having "weird hair colors like that girl Angela" - my friend who practically had stock in Manic Panic.
Post by basilosaurus on May 29, 2012 15:26:49 GMT -5
I had uniforms 1-6 and a fairly strict dress code 7-12. The uniforms were hideous. They were heavy jumpers or a thin white shirt. No pants for girls. However, they would last us for a few years, and my dad didn't need to think about how to dress 2 girls, so I know he loved it. You could buy them 2nd hand, and they were pretty much indestructible. Oh, and we had dumbass white blazers that we had to wear once a week or when on a field trip. Ugh.
Despite having only about 3 options for shoes (brown or black loafers), the "cool" style would be penny loafers one year and bass the next. There were even trends for socks, and our only option was white.
I still think I'd hypothetically like a uniform that allowed for different color polos and some sort of uniform pant. I looked a hot mess in any pants being so skinny and long legged that it didn't make a difference if it was khaki or not. My mom refused to buy new pants in the middle of the year, so by January, my jeans were ready for the coming floods.
Everything HAB said. We had red plaid jumpers for 1-6, then red plaid skirts for 7 & 8, with thin, white, short sleeve peter pan collar shirts, red snap ties like the fucking King Kullen cashiers, and red knee socks. Red sweaters were allowed.
You want to see drama? Holy shit - try getting two girls to each find a pair of knee socks that still stay up and a shirt that still fits 5 months into a school year. Before the bus makes the first pass down the cul-de-sac. And where to those goddamned ties go? You don't wash them, they just disappear.
Every book, pencil, worksheet, permission slip, and teachers note is entirely secondary once this daily morning panic has set in. Focused on school my ass.
Oh - don't think for a second you have time to feed them before they leave. It's a mad dash to find the right clothes, precisely because its a uniform.
You still have to buy non-uniform clothes, because the kid has to change for after school stuff before dinner, because you don't want them playing outside and eating in their uniforms. So they have an entire secondary wardrobe dedicated for the hours of 4 - 9.
Also, those asshole nuns (yeah, I said it) had us in cross over double breasted jumpers, then switched us to this:
for ONE YEAR, then went back to double breasted. So anything you bought large for that year and hemmed thinking you'd let out the next year was no good.
So yeah, $30 a shot, and you need at least 2, plus 5 shirts, 5 socks, 2 ties for each girl. Then sweaters and shoes. Then replace the socks, shoes, and at least 2 shirts halfway through the year. And hope she doesn't grow and turn both uniforms into minis. And iron those polyester pleats. But don't scorch the tissue thin shirt.
It really can't get more high maintenance than uniforms.
Post by GailGoldie on May 29, 2012 19:44:51 GMT -5
I have taught in schools with them and without (all public) and I LOVED when the kids had uniforms.
They could be ANY navy pants/shorts/skirts/rompers, and white shirts... from anywhere - so price and fit were not a problem at all. I used to pick up extras when I found them at good will to keep on hand for kids who really needed new ones and the family couldn't afford it- and to keep on hand if kids had accidents in class.
It was great- they were ready to learn - in their "suit" as if they were going to work... nobody made fun of clothing, etc.
As a mom i would LOVE having them - but only in that way (solid colors you can buy anywhere) and not have to buy from a certain place, etc.
I would be thrilled if our school system went to uniforms but it hasn't passed in the past - so I doubt it will happen.
I am in favor of uniforms. I am not in favor of tying one's self-expression and value to one's looks, style or parents ability to purchase namebrand crap. There's nothing special about being an individual, every single person is an individual. I do not approve of girls under 18 years old using permanent hair colors or perms. Their bodies are still growing and the damage done to their follicles will not heal. They are too young imo to accept the lifelong risks associated with such "styles"... much like tattoos. I think it also teaches kids to enjoy spending money to alter their natural appearances in a permanent manner, which is a form of self-hate. No nose jobs, boob jobs, tucks or anything like that should be allowed below 18 yrs either for the same reasons.
If kids won't stop getting dirty at school or tearing up their clothes, make them wash their clothes themselves. With hands, water and soap in the tub. Hang to dry. Doing laundry doesn't have to cost money unless you and your children have no hands or feet or you have no running water in your house. If they don't do a good job or still get their clothes dirty or ripped up, they'll have to go to school looking retarded and get demerits and no one's to blame but themselves. Make the kids live with the consequences of their mistakes instead of your pocketbook because one day, your pocketbook won't save them anymore. This lesson should begin as soon as school begins and the child is inflicted on the outside world.
At schools where uniforms are constant year after year, don't they have programs where outgrown uniforms can be handed down or at least sold at minimal cost?
If kids won't stop getting dirty at school or tearing up their clothes, make them wash their clothes themselves. With hands, water and soap in the tub. Hang to dry. Doing laundry doesn't have to cost money unless you and your children have no hands or feet or you have no running water in your house. If they don't do a good job or still get their clothes dirty or ripped up, they'll have to go to school looking retarded and get demerits and no one's to blame but themselves. Make the kids live with the consequences of their mistakes instead of your pocketbook because one day, your pocketbook won't save them anymore. This lesson should begin as soon as school begins and the child is inflicted on the outside world.
Post by penguingrrl on May 29, 2012 22:28:53 GMT -5
I'm not a fan. They're so ugly and industrial looking* that you need to buy two sets of clothes, one for school and one to wear after school (thus you aren't really saving much). Also, my daughter would likely fight having to wear the same thing every single day far harder than any other clothing fight I could imagine. Right now if I try to suggest she wear the same color two days in a row she explains that she can't do that, she needs lots of colors.
*Disclaimer, I am not a fan of polo or button down shirts. Any time I've worn a collared shirt I've felt incredibly manly, no idea why. I just feel distinctly unfeminine in them, which may be how they fit me. I can deal with turtlenecks, although they're itchy and feel like you're being strangled.
I also strongly feel that kids need to learn how to dress appropriately for various occasions and uniforms take that education away. As an adult your employer is unlikely to give you a uniform and you need to know how to dress without that rubric.