Both of us have high-paying jobs and work hard, contribute 50/50 to the house and our family. Kids are happy, we are happy. Obviously it does happen and people do manage dual careers and children happily and easily. Amused with the continued jealous bullshit.
Disagree. I like my job well enough, but it's not "huge." I only make about 5K more than my husband. I don't pine to stay home. And I don't feel like I'm "putting my family through" anything.
Granted, INTJ signing in. So maybe I'm just heartless. Still, I find the whole thing pretty reductive.
I'm feeling like a INTJ failure--no high earnings here. :/
Me too on the INTJ failure part.
For me, the article was more of a depressing commentary rather than an offensive commentary on the state of women's options if they want a family.
Thankfully, I'm sure the exceptions to these options are numerous even if the general ideas are correct.
I feel like there is a scenario missing--the one where both partners maintain careers and share parenting duties. We have neither a SAHP nor nannies, and we manage. We have both made certain career sacrifices to make our family work. I don't think I would be happy being either the sole breadwinner or a SAHM. When I was picking someone to have kids with, it was important to me to find someone who was willing to share parenting duties fairly equally and still contribute something to our household financially.
There was an interesting article about this in the Washington Post this weekend that basically said this is a recipe for chaos - particularly as your kids get older - and then divorce. It was an incredibly pessimistic take on modern parenting that made me utterly depressed so I chose to ignore it. I'm firmly in the denial camp. LOL.
I haven't had a chance to read the article you linked, but I have to admit that I fear this is partially true. My DH and I went into parenthood with lofty ideals of "halving it all" (has anyone read that book?). 5+ years and 2 (almost 3) kids into it, we have done what we said we would, but man it is harder than I ever thought it would be. There have been many moments when we have questioned whether it would have been better for one of us to just go full-speed ahead career-wise, while the other stayed home with the kids. I do wonder whether or lives would be calmer if we had approached things that way--the amout of sleep, time together, and time for ourselves we sacrifice to make our lives work is astounding. It is my fervent hope that it is all worth it in the end and that our kids will benefit from close relationships and plenty of time with both parents. But there is definitely a part of me that is jealous of both the female partners in my office with the massive salaries and the SAH husbands AND my SAHM friends with the high-earning spouses, since I am kind of stuck in a limbo that sometimes feels like the perfect balance but very often feels like nothing of the sort.
Ugh, this stuff really rings true for us. DH is out of the workforce and back to school, and I have the "big job." And it is big- I have a TON of responsibility for my early career status. It's insane, really.
I never thought I would have said this as a younger feminist, but sometimes I do resent DH for not bringing in any income right now. It IS primal. It has nothing to do with anything I believe intellectually. I'm so glad he's going back to school because he loves what he studies and it will be the best thing for our family overall. But sometimes I wish I felt more taken care of. The only reason the resentment isn't rampant is.... he is going back to school to get a 6 figure medical job and I will be able to work part-time at that point. Womp womp. So typical. In fact, he is talking about moonlighting (for fun!) and will likely work 2 jobs while I work part-time.
I always thought of myself as the high-powered career type who would either be 1/2 of a power couple, or maybe even be the breadwinner. But now that I'm married and considering children, I don't want either of those scenarios at all.
Eh, I don't really agree with this article. There are just too many variables for an article like this to cover every scenario.
We talked and planned at length when we were dating about how I would SAH if/when we have kids, but now that I have a job where I work from home 90% of the time, it would be silly for me to give it up just to be at home for a few years. Jobs like this are practically impossible to find in my industry/field. Granted, we aren't even trying yet, but I'm glad I didn't choose to marry/not marry my H based on working vs. staying at home. Jobs and situations change.
This is what I was thinking, too. I had always planned to work and never in a million years thought that I would be a SAHM. I think it's really hard to say with certainty how we want our lives to turn out when we're younger. Circumstances and preferences for working/SAH can easily change.
I feel like there is a scenario missing--the one where both partners maintain careers and share parenting duties. We have neither a SAHP nor nannies, and we manage. We have both made certain career sacrifices to make our family work. I don't think I would be happy being either the sole breadwinner or a SAHM. When I was picking someone to have kids with, it was important to me to find someone who was willing to share parenting duties fairly equally and still contribute something to our household financially.
There was an interesting article about this in the Washington Post this weekend that basically said this is a recipe for chaos - particularly as your kids get older - and then divorce. It was an incredibly pessimistic take on modern parenting that made me utterly depressed so I chose to ignore it. I'm firmly in the denial camp. LOL.
That article was super depressing because that is what we aim for. I admit I have wondered whether I'm hindering DH's job progression by continuing to work and expecting 50/50. While I make a fairly significant financial contribution, I still play trailing spouse and he is the one with the lofty career goals.
Sometimes I think the only reason our situation works is because I have been a virtual worker, at home, for the past 5 years. The kids are still in school/daycare but I have the flexibility to handle anything that comes up during the day. Should I be laid off, I don't know if we'd still manage with me having a traditional job.
Post by snapplegirl on Jan 7, 2013 18:32:27 GMT -5
I've never done any of this Meyer Briggs stuff. But my H is a high earner who says he'd LOVE to switch places with me and SAH if I made the kind of money he does. Wonder where he fits in.
Post by barefootcontessa on Jan 7, 2013 19:11:45 GMT -5
DH and I are both ENFJs. I SAH with some consulting. He works a high-pressure job that brings in a good salary. Neither one of us would be making these choices if we did not have the number of kids we have. I SAH because I feel like it is best for my kids and family generally, while DH works a hard job because we have kids to support and send to college.
I am an ENTJ, but I feel like I am becoming less so as I get older. I have no desire to be the sole breadwinner, though I do make a relatively good salary (and significantly more than my INTJ husband).
This article has my number as well. Before I met DH, I was super career focused and driven. But I always knew that I would want to be at home with my kids when they were really little.
I met the man I was engaged to previously when I was 22, fresh out of school and starting my first job. He was four years older, a single class shy of having the same degree as me (finance) and working at Home Depot, living in total denial that he didn't actually graduate. Everything was fine at first, but as I moved along quickly in my career, he certainly resented it, and as we started to talk about marriage, I knew that if I married him, I'd never be able to be at home with any future kids.
With DH, we were completely on the same page regarding working/SAH and luckily, he's realizing his potential to be a high earner. With me at home, he can really focus and excel at his career. For example, he's on a ten day business trip right now. If I was still working in my previous job, something would have to give (or we'd need those live in nannies) because I wouldn't be able to travel like I previously did.
Life's a journey. His time for his career is now, I'll dip back in when the kids are in school, but it will never need to be the focus of my life again. I forget my Myers Briggs results, but in the more simplified colors version, I'm gold/green with a high level of blue, and DH is green/gold, in case anyone is familiar.
Post by wanderlustmom on Jan 7, 2013 19:18:19 GMT -5
I agree with many of the posters that her article is interesting and it needs to be a discussion but that it oversimplifies the categories greatly. Her article doesn't address the question about how you can make a life work if both parents want to work and spend time with the kids. Totally am there with Hens and others who are doing the best they can every day to have a career and kids. We did talk about it before marriage and I told DH I wanted to work PT which is doable in my industry. We made our life decisions with me working 20 hours a week. I know it's not been easy for him to be the breadwinner and it's not easy for me to have more parenting and house tasks fall on me but we both pitch in, every day, we don't have a lot of family help close by and we make it work. Sure it's busy and chaotic, but I would bet our life would be busy too if I SAH. Having kids makes you busy.
I do think she's spot on about making hard choices but sometimes you can make them work really well. I have lots of friends (many who both work FT and have no family support) that piece together a mostly balanced schedule. One of my best friend's is an accountant, so is her DH, she leaves at 5 am and comes home at 2, he gets the boys on the bus and she gets them off the bus and he comes home at 6:30. She still finds time to work out and see friends. Another friend's DH takes every Wednesday off and he does all the cleaning, shopping and errands on that day. Most of my friends with dual working parents find lots of ways to flex things.
Post by wanderlustmom on Jan 7, 2013 19:22:37 GMT -5
And I guess I will add, I see her point if both parents want really big careers with long, long hours all the time. But I know doctors, professors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, business people who can make a good income still having a mostly kid friendly schedule. The exceptions I can think of work for real jerks who don't let them go see the kid play ever, so I think it's a boss issue more than an industry issue for people I know that don't have flexibility.
Lots of families make it with two working parents and no one having a 'huge' job. Even if I stick with the gross generalizations the author was making- what about all the women teachers/social workers/nurses/etc. Those are not'huge' jobs, but instead jobs that lend themselves nicely to 2 working parent scenarios.
chiming in as a clinical social worker, I couldn't agree more. When I had DS, I asked for a four month maternity leave and returned to two ten hour days. The next year, I bumped it to 30 hours, three ten hour days. Then I SAH for a year after DD was born and it wasn't hard to reenter the work force. We have been able to save on child care because I worked evenings and a weekend day when they are little and now I work three days a week when they are in school. It's a stressful field but extremely family friendly. I also dial back my hours in the summer. My BF is a nurse and works two eight hours shifts a week and still makes in the 30s.
That being said, a lot of my working friends aren't in traditionally female fields and still have found a lot of flexibility by being good at what they do and being tenacious. And they definitely earn more money than me by a lot !!!!!
If you want to work full-time when you have kids then you had better plan on having a huge job that you love. Because nothing else will seem worth it to put yourself and your family through what they will have to go through.
Disagree. I like my job well enough, but it's not "huge." I only make about 5K more than my husband. I don't pine to stay home. And I don't feel like I'm "putting my family through" anything.
Granted, INTJ signing in. So maybe I'm just heartless. Still, I find the whole thing pretty reductive.
I agree with you. My job is not "huge" but I earn more than twice what H makes. I still only work 8:30-5, *fewer* hours than he does, so I don't feel I'm putting my family through anything.
Post by asoctoberfalls on Jan 7, 2013 20:14:50 GMT -5
For being the least common score for a woman, there certainly seem to be a lot of us INTJ's on this board (myself included).
Neither DH nor I have a big or high powered job... I'm an engineer and he works in telecommunications. I make about 30% more than him, and neither of us makes 6 figures or even close to it. I work 7-4 and NEVER work overtime. My job is very flexible and family friendly.
We share child rearing duties pretty darn equally. So, this article doesn't fit my personal experience at all.
I feel like this is more applicable to families in big cities. DH and I live in the 'burbs and we both work FT and manage just fine. We have very short commutes and decent hours. I am advancing perfectly fine in my career. With all that said, I am the breadwinner and my life would definitely be a lot easier if DH worked part-time or SAH.
If you want to work full-time when you have kids then you had better plan on having a huge job that you love. Because nothing else will seem worth it to put yourself and your family through what they will have to go through.
Disagree. I like my job well enough, but it's not "huge." I only make about 5K more than my husband. I don't pine to stay home. And I don't feel like I'm "putting my family through" anything.
Granted, INTJ signing in. So maybe I'm just heartless. Still, I find the whole thing pretty reductive.
Totally agree. Also I have a good job (dont know if it is a "big" job) and I dont work long hours. We do have one nanny.
I get ragey about the assumption that no women choose to work unless we're the freakin' CEO of a F500 company.
I know plenty of families in which parents work, they have reliable childcare and manage to find balance and have a great life. Is it hard at times? Yes, absolutely. But it's not unmanageable.
If you want to be home with your kids, you’re going to need a solid plan to make that happen. Pew Research finds that about 60% of all working women with kids want to work part-time and be home with their kids part-time. (Note that Macleans magazine reports that women with kids who work part-time are the happiest in the world.) Gallup reports that about 40% of women don’t want to work at all. (Note that this leaves a statistically irrelevant number of women who have kids and want to work full-time.)
Really? Essentially no women want to have kids and work full time? I find that hard to believe.
If you want to be home with your kids, you’re going to need a solid plan to make that happen. Pew Research finds that about 60% of all working women with kids want to work part-time and be home with their kids part-time. (Note that Macleans magazine reports that women with kids who work part-time are the happiest in the world.) Gallup reports that about 40% of women don’t want to work at all. (Note that this leaves a statistically irrelevant number of women who have kids and want to work full-time.)
Really? Essentially no women want to have kids and work full time? I find that hard to believe.
If you want to be home with your kids, you’re going to need a solid plan to make that happen. Pew Research finds that about 60% of all working women with kids want to work part-time and be home with their kids part-time. (Note that Macleans magazine reports that women with kids who work part-time are the happiest in the world.) Gallup reports that about 40% of women don’t want to work at all. (Note that this leaves a statistically irrelevant number of women who have kids and want to work full-time.)
Really? Essentially no women want to have kids and work full time? I find that hard to believe.
While I find it hard to believe that no moms want to work full-time, I definitely buy that most would prefer part-time. Most of my friends with kids would tell you that working part-time or SAH is their ideal. I can only think of one friend I have with kids who still maintains that full-time work is her ideal. (She is a big law partner married to a big law partner--they have two nannies.). This seems to be especially true when you take into account that in many fields 30-40 hours a week is part-time. Working full-time with kids is pretty miserable when full-time is 60 hours a week.
We're two women. No gender roles to guide us. We're both early in our careers and both do pretty well, but DW is much more passionate about her work than I am and I've always known there's no way she'll ever want to stay home. I'm in a field where it is completely feasible to work 50% time or 70% time, and I may do that when the theoretical kids are young. Or I may decide I want to advance faster, and we'll both work full time.
Also, this article is only for the 20% or so of families that are even lucky enough to have a choice to have a parent SAH.