s/o Little House on the Prairie

[Bad Dingo]

I've started reading these books out loud to DD (5) and I find myself reading a few lines ahead and glossing over certain parts (mainly all of the child beatings).  I seriously don't remember all of that when I read these as a kid, but I guess I thought corporal punishment was normal so it didn't phase me.  Does anyone else do this?  I just don't feel like having a conversation with my kid about beatings.

[penguingrrl]

I reread the books a few years ago and realized that I don't know whether I want my kids to read them, which makes me sad because I loved them. Between corporal punishment and the blatant racism throughout it's a little appalling as an adult in 2012. I likely will get over it and let them read it but talk to them about things that have changed since then.

[Deleted]

yes, it's so casually violent. i reread little house in the big woods recently (for the hell of it) and was also surprised at the racism in some of pa's beloved songs.

[Deleted]

I'd still read it to my kids. I think not doing so runs the risk of whitewashing history or leaves you with very few things of the era to read, kwim?

I need to find the books for pinky. She's currently obsessed with Kirsten so this is right up her alley.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 5, 2013 16:01:50 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I'd still read it to my kids. I think not doing so runs the risk of whitewashing history or leaves you with very few things of the era to read, kwim?

I need to find the books for pinky. She's currently obsessed with Kirsten so this is right up her alley.

You know, that's a really great point. Thank you! I'll use them as a learning tool to discuss the dark parts of history rather than whitewashing or ignoring the dark side of the past.

I was obsessed with first Kirstin then Felicity as a kid and really hope my girls get into them, mostly so I can play lol!

[pixy0stix]

Its what they did, so I'll read them to ZB as is and discuss as needed.

Unless you think that Huck Finn shouldn't be read either?

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 16:01:50 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I'd still read it to my kids. I think not doing so runs the risk of whitewashing history or leaves you with very few things of the era to read, kwim?

I need to find the books for pinky. She's currently obsessed with Kirsten so this is right up her alley.

oh, i agree.  i just didn't remember that part.  i remember every detail of them tapping the maples (ew, dirty!) for sap and having a syrup party and making maple candy in the snow, but was all "pa!  i'm aghast that you'd sing that racist nonsense after beating laura for having harsh words with that stuck up mary!"  i was personally disappointed in pa.  ha.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 5, 2013 16:07:45 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Its what they did, so I'll read them to ZB as is and discuss as needed.

Unless you think that Huck Finn shouldn't be read either?

They're aimed at very different age groups. Huck Finn is more of a 7th-8th grade book whereas I read the little house books in 1st grade. It's much easier to address and discuss racism and history with a 13 year old than a 6 year old because they have context to understand the discussion.

[madisen]

Yeah, I have no problems reading this series to or letting my children read the series themselves once they're in elementary school. I do plan on rereading them again either with them or while they're reading them so we can have some discussion about certain topics.

[taratru]

I wouldn't give Huck Finn to a middle schooler. Yikes. We teach it in 11th grade.

I will give Little House to my girls. We'll talk about it. I honestly had to sit here and think about the spankings. That's how much they did NOT resonate with me, ever. The racism piece in there is a clear view into the time period and a great way to introduce that concept, imo.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I never recognized the racism as a child and I read them around the same time children in my neighborhood were calling me the n-word. If I were reading them aloud, I probably would skip the songs. But other than that, idk.

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 16:14:58 GMT -5 taratru said:

I wouldn't give Huck Finn to a middle schooler. Yikes. We teach it in 11th grade.

I will give Little House to my girls. We'll talk about it. I honestly had to sit here and think about the spankings. That's how much they did NOT resonate with me, ever. The racism piece in there is a clear view into the time period and a great way to introduce that concept, imo.

Really?

I've already given pete Huck Finn but it was the annotated version so I guess.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 5, 2013 16:12:07 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Feb 5, 2013 16:07:45 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Its what they did, so I'll read them to ZB as is and discuss as needed.

Unless you think that Huck Finn shouldn't be read either?

They're aimed at very different age groups. Huck Finn is more of a 7th-8th grade book whereas I read the little house books in 1st grade. It's much easier to address and discuss racism and history with a 13 year old than a 6 year old because they have context to understand the discussion.

It's the same side of the coin. The information presented in LHOP, especially the first few books, is geared towards younger kids. With a kid's understanding of what is going on. Hence why it's important to read and discuss the issues from that standpoint.

The same with Huck Finn, as the main character is at the age of the kids reading the story, with the same perspective.

[Deleted]

It is interesting to re-read those and catch things I certainly didn't as a kid. The spankings, for sure, which were clearly phrased as "whippings." Speaking of, WTH Pa, spanking Laura for slapping instigator Mary - I would have slapped her, too!



I remember the blackface performance in LTOTP. 

Two other things stand out - how very close they came to being massacred in LHOTP. Thanks for saving the day, Soldat De Chene. Also, the Long Winter - how they were on the brink of starvation and just how dangerous it was for Cap and Almanzo to make that 40-mile trek to find the wheat to save the town. 

And totally shallow but the 40 mile trek plus this?



I'd hit that.

Hi, my name is beachgal and I'm a LH-aholic.

[taratru]

Feb 5, 2013 16:17:35 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Feb 5, 2013 16:14:58 GMT -5 taratru said:

Really?

I've already given pete Huck Finn but it was the annotated version so I guess.

I mean, I know younger kids can follow the narrative okay, but the historical context and racism the book takes on is so good for an advanced lit class.  Just curious, did the annotated version use the n-word? 

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 16:28:20 GMT -5 taratru said:

Feb 5, 2013 16:17:35 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Really?

I've already given pete Huck Finn but it was the annotated version so I guess.

I mean, I know younger kids can follow the narrative okay, but the historical context and racism the book takes on is so good for an advanced lit class.  Just curious, did the annotated version use the n-word? 

IDK. I didn't read it.

[Deleted]

I really can't think of anything in LHotP that isn't easily explained to even a five year old. But admittedly, my fall back explanation is usually some version of, "people used to do that but we don't anymore because it's mean and hurts people's feelings."

[IIOY]

Feb 5, 2013 15:56:37 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I haven't read those books in a long time, but I watched the show religiously and then saw that Hallmark was showing reruns of it so I was letting PTS and K watch it while I made dinner.  After like 5 back-to-back episodes of babies and mother dying, I told her we weren't watching it anymore.  My dad used to call it "Little Tragedy on the Prairie" and now I see why.

Do you remember the episode where Albert's female friend, who is developing faster than the other girls her age, is raped by the blue-eyed man in a creepy mask, gets pregnant, and Albert lets people think he is the father?  It turns out the rapist was the girl's father's boss, and the two-part show ends with the girl dying from injuries when she falls because she is being chased by her rapist.

Solid family entertainment, that.

[Deleted]

I remember the black face scene in "Little Town". We read that book in second grade. zero mention of why that was racist or anything. Just a "haha, oh Pa Ingalls!" I had a few black kids in my class - not a lot, but some. I wonder how they took that?

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 16:44:24 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Feb 5, 2013 15:56:37 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I haven't read those books in a long time, but I watched the show religiously and then saw that Hallmark was showing reruns of it so I was letting PTS and K watch it while I made dinner.  After like 5 back-to-back episodes of babies and mother dying, I told her we weren't watching it anymore.  My dad used to call it "Little Tragedy on the Prairie" and now I see why.

Do you remember the episode where Albert's female friend, who is developing faster than the other girls her age, is raped by the blue-eyed man in a creepy mask, gets pregnant, and Albert lets people think he is the father?  It turns out the rapist was the girl's father's boss, and the two-part show ends with the girl dying from injuries when she falls because she is being chased by her rapist.

Solid family entertainment, that.

Yes, that two-parter is burned into my brain. Not just a creepy mask but a fucking god-damn clown mask!

For a good recap of that episode - see this link. 

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 16:48:27 GMT -5 @mrsbecky07 said:

I remember the black face scene in "Little Town". We read that book in second grade. zero mention of why that was racist or anything. Just a "haha, oh Pa Ingalls!" I had a few black kids in my class - not a lot, but some. I wonder how they took that?

I didn't know what black face was when I was a child. I didn't know about minstrel shows. When I was in the second grade, the racism would have to have been outright and probably involved me directly before I'd recognized it.

For instance, I clearly recall my mom being followed around stores all the time. I didn't realize until I was much older that it had anything to do with our race. 

[IIOY]

@beachgal, I am a grown woman and I still get the creeps whenever I think about that episode.

[penguingrrl]

Wow, I missed that episode! Sounds very disturbing!

[Deleted]

I hate that episode and refuse to watch it. From the moment I see the creepy eye staring, it's over for me.

The other episode I refuse to watch is another two-parter - May We Make Them Proud.

You know, the one where Mary's baby and Alice Garvey DIAF (Alice aka Merlin Olsen's wife) because that stupid asshole Albert with his equally stupid asshole friend were smoking a pipe in the blind school basement. Although the real asshole is Mary - blind or not, who leaves their baby in a room in a house that they KNOW is on fire.

Two horrific scenes stand out - a trapped Alice, attempts to break through an upstairs window - with the baby in her arms - and looks as if she is using the baby to break the window. And every.damn.scene with a tone-deaf Mary humming "lullaby and good night" or whatever the hell it was she was humming.

[IIOY]

I used to adore that show but on second thought, fuck that show.

[2vermont]

I agree that there are some disturbing shows, but for the most part ITA with my husband....LHOP is syrupy.

[meshaliuknits]

Is this an appropriate place to say I've never seen nor read Little House on the Prairie and in fact didn't know it existed until I was in college?

I'm gonna leave it here anyway.

[Deleted]

To meshaliuknits, I have only one thing to respond with:

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 17:23:30 GMT -5 2vermont said:

I agree that there are some disturbing shows, but for the most part ITA with my husband....LHOP is syrupy.

Treacly is what I'd say, but for every overly warm and fuzzy episode filled with tertiary characters that are oh-so-important for that 1 episode then never seen or heard from again, there are your Clown Rapists, Baby DIAF, Albert gets hooked on morphine and barfs all over the place, Ma tries to cut off her own leg, or Gambini the Great who clearly wasn't since he died after his lock him in a coffin and set on fire trick went bad. 

I think I need a LH intervention.

[msmerymac]

Feb 5, 2013 15:56:37 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I haven't read those books in a long time, but I watched the show religiously and then saw that Hallmark was showing reruns of it so I was letting PTS and K watch it while I made dinner.  After like 5 back-to-back episodes of babies and mother dying, I told her we weren't watching it anymore.  My dad used to call it "Little Tragedy on the Prairie" and now I see why.

I think Allison Arngrim (Nellie) mentioned in her book that "family shows" in the 70s are not the same as "family shows" now. Now, "Family shows" mean nothing offensive, very G-rated, appropriate for toddlers kind of stuff. Then, it was more like you would watch it with your gradeschooler and discuss some of the hard topics together.

Not that you aren't monitoring what they watch or discussing things with them. Because I agree a lot of what's on it is hard for toddlers. I don't think it's age approrpiate. But it might be more age appropriate around like age 8-10 when you can have more meaningful discussions about it?