Another rental Q - reasonable times for showings?

[y4m]

Feb 14, 2013 9:19:56 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

Feb 14, 2013 9:18:21 GMT -5 y4m said:

Dude--did you or did you not tell the tenants you'd be there at 10 and then show up at 9:45?

Because yeah, I'd be rightfully pissed if you did that and I was your tenant.

They were told 2 days in advance of the 10am, and told early in the afternoon 1 day before that there was an additional showing 15 minutes earlier.  The horror!

Early in the afternoon the day before is not 24 hours.  PER THE LEASE!

I'm coming across as angrier than I want to.  The tenants do have obligations to show the place, and they probably also want to be helpful and respectful as they do it, assuming they are nice people.  But they also want to have use of the place they are paying for, and I don't at all think a few days a week of peace is unreasonable.  Just like you don't think asking the afternoon before if you can also show 15 minutes earlier tomorrow morning is unreasonable.  But given that neither of those things are allowed by the lease, I'd suggest you focus more on maintaining a good working relationship with them and less on what the lease requires.

[vanillacourage]

I get what you're saying, but it also goes both ways in the sense that it's in the tenants' best interest not to be jerks right before they move out.  For example, these specific tenants paid a $500 non-refundable pet fee, but so far I can't really see that their dog did any damage to the place, so I was thinking of giving them that money back.  But, if they make it difficult for me to do showings, then I won't.

Similarly, tenants need to take the long view that if they make it a PITA for the landlord to show the property, it's only going to take longer to get the place rented and lead to more of the showings that annoy them. 

[shopgirl07]

Feb 14, 2013 9:35:17 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I get what you're saying, but it also goes both ways in the sense that it's in the tenants' best interest not to be jerks right before they move out.  For example, these specific tenants paid a $500 non-refundable pet fee, but so far I can't really see that their dog did any damage to the place, so I was thinking of giving them that money back.  But, if they make it difficult for me to do showings, then I won't.

Similarly, tenants need to take the long view that if they make it a PITA for the landlord to show the property, it's only going to take longer to get the place rented and lead to more of the showings that annoy them. 

Well this is really mature. Why are you so angry towards these tenants? Even if they're being pains in the ass, no need for you to stoop to that level.

And, again, just work around the earlier morning showings, it shouldn't be that difficult.

[vanillacourage]

lol, I give up.

[hamster]

Wow you guys.

FWIW, VC, I'm on your side here.

[y4m]

Feb 14, 2013 9:25:42 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Feb 13, 2013 21:11:46 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

You can want these things, but as a tenant you're in no way entitled to them.

I'm not a lawyer, but in my research before becoming a LL, I learned that tenants have the right to quiet enjoyment of the property. Apparently it has little to do with noise, but more to with interference and disruption.

So, I'd be careful thinking tenants are not entitled to relax in their home. It might be your house, but it's their home right now.

This is a very good point.  We looked into the law in Virginia, which is notoriously landlord-friendly, and it was clear here that just because a lease says a place can be shown with 24-hours notice doesn't mean you have an unlimited or unrestricted right to show as long as you give that notice.  Quiet enjoyment can't be usurped by a line in the lease.

[countthestars]

Wow. Lots of attacking going on in this post. VC, I think you are doing fine. I can't imagine how annoying it is (for everyone) to have to show a house that is still being lived in. As long as you aren't there at 9 every weekend day, I don't see the issue.

[ECB]

Feb 14, 2013 9:38:55 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

Feb 14, 2013 9:35:17 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I get what you're saying, but it also goes both ways in the sense that it's in the tenants' best interest not to be jerks right before they move out.  For example, these specific tenants paid a $500 non-refundable pet fee, but so far I can't really see that their dog did any damage to the place, so I was thinking of giving them that money back.  But, if they make it difficult for me to do showings, then I won't.

Similarly, tenants need to take the long view that if they make it a PITA for the landlord to show the property, it's only going to take longer to get the place rented and lead to more of the showings that annoy them. 

Well this is really mature. Why are you so angry towards these tenants? Even if they're being pains in the ass, no need for you to stoop to that level.

And, again, just work around the earlier morning showings, it shouldn't be that difficult.

What level is she stooping too, though?  Keeping money that they have no expectation of getting back?  She was thinking of giving it back to be nice.

Based on the OP, I fully get vanilla's point.  There was a 10am showing.  She wanted to add one more to it 15 minutes earlier.  And she's getting grief over it from her tenants.  Really?

Vanilla- I think you should actually make it clear to them that there was a choice.  9;45 or later in the day - which would disrupt them again.  If they'd prefer that in the future, then you'll keep that in mind and not try to block them all together.

[aspentosh]

I just... I can't... Reading comprehension is your friend.

[msmerymac]

FWIW, if the landlord said there would be a showing at 10, I would assume he or she would probably show up BY 9:45, just in case the prospective tenants show up 5-10 minutes early. We're not talking hour-long showings here, where VC told them, Öh, actually, there's one at 9 now, so I'll be there at 8:45." Tha't I might be annoyed with. 15 minutes is not going to impact my plan.

[y4m]

All I can say is it sounds like a little interruption, until it's happening several times a day, day after day, and you never know if the 11am showing is actually happening at 10:45 or 11:30 or what. Once when we had people show up unexpected 20 minutes early on a Saturday morning, I had just gotten out of the shower and I had to rush to throw on clothes. Not saying that's the case with VC, but it has been for us.

VC - since it's early in this process for you and you think showings are going to pick up, I'd spend some time thinking about that dog. If you call and give notice and it's for a time when the tenants can't be there because they have other plans, would you still be showing it without the tenants present? Where would the dog be?

In our situation, we worked out that the place will only be shown by either us or our landlord's realtor (always at times approved by us, because I work from here, and sometimes I just can't be disturbed). If the realtor is showing it with us out of the house, the dog is left in an upstairs powder room (where we normally leave him when we go out). That room is not to be opened during the showing. We also asked that the landlords agree that anything that happens to the dog or because of the dog while he is out of our control like this would be their responsibility. Just throwing it out there as something that was an obstacle in our situation that we were able to solve through keeping an open line of communication with our landlords and everyone being flexible.

[y4m]

I'd also think about your approach to the $500 nonrefundable pet deposit. Returning or withholding it after the fact as a thank you or punishment for their cooperation gets you nothing. They aren't expecting it and they don't know you're thinking it, so it doesn't impact their behavior, or their willingness to work with you.

Why not figure out a way to return the $500 to them in exchange for their cooperation? Either in reduced rent or something else? After a particularly bad week, our landlords sent us a restaurant gift card as a thank you. That kind of thing goes a long way toward both sides wanting to cooperate.

[phunluvin82]

Feb 14, 2013 12:00:31 GMT -5 y4m said:

All I can say is it sounds like a little interruption, until it's happening several times a day, day after day, and you never know if the 11am showing is actually happening at 10:45 or 11:30 or what. Once when we had people show up unexpected 20 minutes early on a Saturday morning, I had just gotten out of the shower and I had to rush to throw on clothes. Not saying that's the case with VC, but it has been for us.

VC - since it's early in this process for you and you think showings are going to pick up, I'd spend some time thinking about that dog. If you call and give notice and it's for a time when the tenants can't be there because they have other plans, would you still be showing it without the tenants present? Where would the dog be?

In our situation, we worked out that the place will only be shown by either us or our landlord's realtor (always at times approved by us, because I work from here, and sometimes I just can't be disturbed). If the realtor is showing it with us out of the house, the dog is left in an upstairs powder room (where we normally leave him when we go out). That room is not to be opened during the showing. We also asked that the landlords agree that anything that happens to the dog or because of the dog while he is out of our control like this would be their responsibility. Just throwing it out there as something that was an obstacle in our situation that we were able to solve through keeping an open line of communication with our landlords and everyone being flexible.

But, this is where I think you are taking out your frustration with your own situation on VC. 

She specifically said that there have been 2 back-to-back showings thus far, and the next ones won't be until one full week after the first ones...but you're harping on how annoying it is to have showings all day every day, and they should be allowed to have days where there aren't any showings, etc.

VC, I think 9:45 is not the end of the world, but if they prefer later, I would just try to do it later. I would respond and let them know that the 2 showings would have been spread out through the day if they had not started at 9:45.  Ask them if, in the future, they'd prefer to keep them back-to-back, or if they prefer for them to be later, even if later means spread throughout more of the day.  Just so you know for future scheduling...and just so they know that you are working with their preferences.

[y4m]

Phun--I think there's an element of that, especially early in the thread, but it's also a tone issue. VC says she wants to be respectful, but then she also says her tenants are "in no way entitled" to a day or two a week showing-free. I suspect that coming into this process with that attitude is going to end poorly for her, since she likely doesn't have as much leverage with these tenants as she thinks she does. I've tried to give constructive advice about things to think about regarding the dog, and not being passive aggressive about the pet deposit.

Ultimately, being very close to this situation right now, the only way it works is if both sides are openly and honestly communicating, so I hope VC finds ways to facilitate that.

[sratsey]

I'd say 10-7, even on weekdays if they have kids.
My kids are out the door by 9 and when I was showing a rental, I always needed that 1/2 hour to get back to the house and straighten up from the morning rush.

[vanillacourage]

Feb 14, 2013 14:51:03 GMT -5 y4m said:

Phun--I think there's an element of that, especially early in the thread, but it's also a tone issue. VC says she wants to be respectful, but then she also says her tenants are "in no way entitled" to a day or two a week showing-free.

This is not true.  The poster I was responding to said they wanted either a reduction in rent or "at least certain days" where they knew they wouldn't have showings.  They are not entitled to either - showings are written into the lease with no corresponding rent reduction, and I am not going to tell someone who wants to see the property, "sorry, I can't do them on X, Y or Z days of the week". 

Y4M, I get that you are getting the really shitty end of the tenant stick right now, but you're misconstruing a lot of what I've said or taking it to unreasonable lengths (i.e. "oh so what, you'd do a showing at 3AM!?!!?!!")  Thank you for advocating for my tenants but I promise I am not being nearly as monstrous as what you seem to be taking away from my posts (and let us not forget that there have been exactly two showings so far).  I really do hope that things get better for you, I do understand the frustration that comes from losing control of your home environment.

[midnightmare81]

Feb 14, 2013 15:44:39 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

Feb 14, 2013 14:51:03 GMT -5 y4m said:

Phun--I think there's an element of that, especially early in the thread, but it's also a tone issue. VC says she wants to be respectful, but then she also says her tenants are "in no way entitled" to a day or two a week showing-free.

This is not true.  The poster I was responding to said they wanted either a reduction in rent or "at least certain days" where they knew they wouldn't have showings.  They are not entitled to either - showings are written into the lease with no corresponding rent reduction, and I am not going to tell someone who wants to see the property, "sorry, I can't do them on X, Y or Z days of the week". 

This was partially my bad, I didn't mean it in the way of set days of the week so much as just having some days where there would be no showings. As I said, I was saying this in the case that there were showings multiple days a week, not a few here and there. I would not want to be uprooted from my house every day for weeks and not get to enjoy/use the space. Thus the refund if this WAS the case, since they would basically not have a home, just a place to sleep at night. I can now see this is not the case here, so it does not apply.

As for the 15mins earlier thing thing, I do think it was silly to be miffed since you did warn them the day before and didn't just show up early. As a tenant, I would have much preferred the way you did it and not had a problem with it. That said, keep in mind when going to the "per the lease" stuff, since technically you weren't adhering to the lease with less then 24 hours notice, even though you were helping them out by not disrupting them again.

I am SO glad that some people understand that just because a dog is big, it doesn't mean destructive . In theory, your right, a Dane is MUCH less destructive then a terrier! Many people just go by size though, which is quite sad. How about instead of giving back the deposit (a very nice thought but they have no idea what your plans were), you could use it to give them a GC as PP mentioned for dinner if there are some evenings you do showings, so they can go out while you are gone and do not have to worry about making dinner late or having to come up with the money for it because they cannot be home. I think that would be a great way to say "Thank you" and show you are recognizing the inconvenience on their end that showings create, and would probably make them much more willing to work with you when showings come up last minute. I know that if I had a landlord who realized that it was not convenient and acknowledged it, I would be much more willing to help out and do all that I could.