First off NO i am not in a relationship, I am actually saving myself for Vicky or maybe Kevins, maybe both?
But on a serious note. I am looking for some insight on relationships in general and have been thinking a lot about the mistakes I have made in the past and really want my next relationship to be good for me and "us". I have always put myself in a situation where I had to make all the accommodation's and accept things that I was not ever really ok with. So here is my questions:
Do you think it is OK to ask someone to change or make changes for YOU and your relationship (i mean giving up/compromising on some things even if they are not ideal)
At this point I feel like i dont WANT to ask someone to make changes or accomodations for me/relationship. I would always feel they are unhappy and I believe that maybe that person is just not for you. I want to voice my opinions/concerns but when it comes to things that are important to me, i dont feel like i need to ask for this in a relationship, bc i would always feel like they are doing it JUST to please me, not bc they want to
Is this ok/logical thinking? MY brain is broken i think
Post by Saint Monica on May 5, 2013 8:08:31 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with doing something just to please someone (unless it is one sided). Why not just wait and see if something/someone just feels right or easy?
I'm generally not ok with asking someone to change & wouldn't like someone to ask me to change. That being said I think it's ok to voice your opinion (once) but you have to establish actions or behaviors as deal breakers or not; anything outside of that you have to be willing to compromise on & learn to accept. If you know in your heart & head something is a deal breaker for you, I think you need to state this very clearly & follow through with what that means-leave.
It's up to you to decide what you can and can't live with. It's up to you (the "royal" you, both of you, all of you) to determine what compromises need to be made for a healthy relationship. Nobody is a "perfect" match and there is always give-and-take in a relationship. How much give and how much take is what is up for discussion. Determine what are deal breakers before you get into a relationship; if the guy has the major ones or a multitude of lesser ones, move on and don't waste your time or his. Find someone closer to your needs that you don't have to change and that you don't have to change for.
Post by underwaterrhymes on May 5, 2013 8:35:01 GMT -5
A relationship where big changes are necessary is not one you should be in.
Small changes like please use the coasters or close the toilet seat or can you help with dinner - sure.
Larger more fundamental changes that involve ingrained behavior or personality traits, though, are not reasonable.
I think it's important to date someone and let things slowly evolve. As you get to know each other better, it will become apparent if it's something you want to pursue. And don't try to force a round peg into a square hole because you're lonely and you want to be in a relationship. You are worth more than that.
I'm generally not ok with asking someone to change & wouldn't like someone to ask me to change. That being said I think it's ok to voice your opinion (once) but you have to establish actions or behaviors as deal breakers or not; anything outside of that you have to be willing to compromise on & learn to accept. If you know in your heart & head something is a deal breaker for you, I think you need to state this very clearly & follow through with what that means-leave.
You need to be happy with yourself first and secure with your decisions before you can be in a relationship. From things you've posted I get the feeling that you don't feel comfortable speaking up for yourself and go along with things rather than recognize that this person is not for you.
I think that if you feel the man-choosing part of your brain is broken, you have to fix that first. With therapy. Not opinions/validation on a message board.
Im not looking for answers on this board. I am just trying to see how others view asking/discussing change in relationships. Obviously it varies from person to person and on their needs/wants. ive always settled and made do with things I did not like. I am starting to see thats not the way things have to be. Thats all
please take this without snark or assholeishness. how old are you?
eta: i ask because it effects my answer.
32
alright. i'm around the same age and i've found that i have personally changed a lot in the last few years and it has a positive impact on my marriage.
the most important part of the equation, i think, is knowing who you are and what you want out of life and people in general. and i think once you have that figured out, the rest just falls into place. my dad once told me "if you want people to change, think about how hard it is to change yourself." and i still think of that conversation whenever i am frustrated and wanting someone to be different. so at that point, i either have to change the way i see/think/feel about something or understand that it will always be that way. and if its little things that don't really matter, i have learned to let them go. but if its the big stuff, i have to evaluate whether or not i allow that person to continue doing whatever it is in my life.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that we allow people to treat us the way that they do. and in regards to a relationship, forcing a square peg in a round hole is never going to work. and if you know who you are, then you encounter less of that kind of mess.
i think starting over at my age would be easier in that i would know what is important to me in a partner and have the ability to better communicate those things to myself and the person involved now then i did 10 years ago.
Im not looking for answers on this board. I am just trying to see how others view asking/discussing change in relationships. Obviously it varies from person to person and on their needs/wants. ive always settled and made do with things I did not like. I am starting to see thats not the way things have to be. Thats all
Well, right.
But you also need to understand that while relationships are give and take, if the changes that someone is asked to make are huge ones, that should be a sign that this is not the right relationship for you. That's only the way to resentment, not compromise. So if there IS someone who is willing to try to change for you instead of the other way around, that's all well and good, but keep in mind that long-term habitual changes are very difficult (as you already know).
It's really easy in the early stages to be all twitterpated and to ignore signs that someone isn't right for you. If either one of you are having to make these big changes, that should alert you to keep looking.
Im not looking for answers on this board. I am just trying to see how others view asking/discussing change in relationships. Obviously it varies from person to person and on their needs/wants. ive always settled and made do with things I did not like. I am starting to see thats not the way things have to be. Thats all
Well, right.
But you also need to understand that while relationships are give and take, if the changes that someone is asked to make are huge ones, that should be a sign that this is not the right relationship for you. That's only the way to resentment, not compromise. So if there IS someone who is willing to try to change for you instead of the other way around, that's all well and good, but keep in mind that long-term habitual changes are very difficult (as you already know).
It's really easy in the early stages to be all twitterpated and to ignore signs that someone isn't right for you. If either one of you are having to make these big changes, that should alert you to keep looking.
YES~!! This is where I am at now. At 32 i am finally seeing that this is OK. It is ok not to be with someone if you dont think the changes needed are so big that it would impact one or the other unfavorably. I guess I am just finally seeing that it is ok to NOT have to settle. Ive been raised thinking its OK to accept things you dont like/want/value in others and I am FINALLY seeing that this does not have to be my life I guess this is more of just a happy post that I am finally starting to see things differently
Post by underwaterrhymes on May 5, 2013 10:01:30 GMT -5
I'm so glad!
FWIW, I didn't meet my husband until I was 31. He's the only person I've ever known who was so perfect for me that I knew pretty quickly I wanted to spend my life with him. Holding out for him was the best thing I've ever done that has led to so many joys.
Post by mariafromnj on May 5, 2013 10:55:06 GMT -5
Finding someone with the basic qualities that you want is the most important. Minor changes are one thing -leaves socks on the floor and dishes in the sink and you want them to clean up after themselves. Asking someone to be a different type of person is another story. That will never work. It isn't fair to the person and it will usually turn out with them not being happy.
i wouldn't ask someone to change, nor would i change for someone. i had that relationship once, when i was 19-21. getting out was like waking up from a zombie coma. i never really DID change, fundamentally, for the bad ex, but i spent most of our relationship feeling like a failure because i wasn't changing and didn't want to. thank god i still had a year of college to really live it up.
small stuff, like, can you think about quitting smoking/not clipping your toenails on the couch/going on more romantic dates? sure, i'd raise those if i was ALREADY in a solid relationship where i felt like i knew and accepted myself and him (and vice versa). big stuff? forget about it. we're all going to die someday, so i don't have that kind of time.
i wouldn't ask someone to change, nor would i change for someone. i had that relationship once, when i was 19-21. getting out was like waking up from a zombie coma. i never really DID change, fundamentally, for the bad ex, but i spent most of our relationship feeling like a failure because i wasn't changing and didn't want to. thank god i still had a year of college to really live it up.
small stuff, like, can you think about quitting smoking/not clipping your toenails on the couch/going on more romantic dates? sure, i'd raise those if i was ALREADY in a solid relationship where i felt like i knew and accepted myself and him (and vice versa). big stuff? forget about it. we're all going to die someday, so i don't have that kind of time.
It's interesting that this came up as a "small thing" for you. BF smokes and I'm not bothered by it, but I always wondered that if we get married and have kids a few years from now, would it be a "big thing" to ask him to quit? He doesn't think so and nor do I, but I've met more than one person for whom this would be a huge "DON'T TRY TO CHANGE MEEEEEEE!!!!!" thing.
There's always some compromise and there's always some things that you have to accept are fundamental to who the person is. I was dating a guy who was sweet, had great communication, etc., but he was so focused on superficial things (how his house looked, how I looked, what cars we drove, etc.) that I always felt like I had to be on display. There's no way I could have changed that about him, and I wasn't willing to live like that. The only choice was to break up.
H knows that I have a ridiculous pet peeve about biting nails. I honestly can't stand it - it makes me want to vomit. So he stopped biting his nails. H is more of a saver than a spender, so I stopped spending as much and adhered to what we agreed to regarding fun money. These are compromises that we can live with. If we couldn't then we wouldn't have made it to the point of engagement and marriage.
Little things (like PP's example of "could you please use a coaster?"), sure. Big things, no. One piece of dating/marriage advice my dad gave that really stuck with me is this: think about the things that most bother you about the person you're dating/are considering marrying. If those things never change, are you ok with that? If not, it's not the right relationship.
i wouldn't ask someone to change, nor would i change for someone. i had that relationship once, when i was 19-21. getting out was like waking up from a zombie coma. i never really DID change, fundamentally, for the bad ex, but i spent most of our relationship feeling like a failure because i wasn't changing and didn't want to. thank god i still had a year of college to really live it up.
small stuff, like, can you think about quitting smoking/not clipping your toenails on the couch/going on more romantic dates? sure, i'd raise those if i was ALREADY in a solid relationship where i felt like i knew and accepted myself and him (and vice versa). big stuff? forget about it. we're all going to die someday, so i don't have that kind of time.
It's interesting that this came up as a "small thing" for you. BF smokes and I'm not bothered by it, but I always wondered that if we get married and have kids a few years from now, would it be a "big thing" to ask him to quit? He doesn't think so and nor do I, but I've met more than one person for whom this would be a huge "DON'T TRY TO CHANGE MEEEEEEE!!!!!" thing.
yeah, i've never been a smoker so perhaps it's a bigger thing. i guess i see it as taking care of your health, which i think is something a spouse can at least ASK the other person to think about doing.
and there are things that i've done/my husband's done that i'm sure are "big" things to others but, in the context of our relationship were not. for example, we didn't live together full time the first 4 years of our marriage. his job was in one place and we knew it would end (military service) and i wasn't going to be able to do the work i wanted to do at the kind of firm where i wanted to do it if i moved near him. so, he tried to get stationed nearish to me and we made it work. but we were at our core so compatible in so many other ways, that, while it totally sucked, it was fine. we continued to grow together through that time.
It's interesting that this came up as a "small thing" for you. BF smokes and I'm not bothered by it, but I always wondered that if we get married and have kids a few years from now, would it be a "big thing" to ask him to quit? He doesn't think so and nor do I, but I've met more than one person for whom this would be a huge "DON'T TRY TO CHANGE MEEEEEEE!!!!!" thing.
yeah, i've never been a smoker so perhaps it's a bigger thing. i guess i see it as taking care of your health, which i think is something a spouse can at least ASK the other person to think about doing.
and there are things that i've done/my husband's done that i'm sure are "big" things to others but, in the context of our relationship were not. for example, we didn't live together full time the first 4 years of our marriage. his job was in one place and we knew it would end (military service) and i wasn't going to be able to do the work i wanted to do at the kind of firm where i wanted to do it if i moved near him. so, he tried to get stationed nearish to me and we made it work. but we were at our core so compatible in so many other ways, that, while it totally sucked, it was fine. we continued to grow together through that time.
Not every relationship -- hell, not MANY relationships -- would be able to withstand something like that. But you guys did, and that's why, to me, there aren't really hard and fast rules for relationships aside from trusting completely, communicating effectively, and being considerate of the other person. All the other stuff just depends, I guess.
I do agree, though, that the "what you see is what you get" approach should be applied, in that you can't expect the person to change the big things. To me that's just exhausting and often fruitless for all parties involved.
Everyone else has covered most everything, but I figured I'd just say that I agree with numerous people when they say you can't really change big things.
As Sue Sue mentioned, you're not going to find the perfect match...So I think you really need to have your life visions, and morals aligned and then be able to deal well with the other things that you don't match up on.
You like to vacation resort style and he loves roughing it in the middle of the woods in a tent - for some people this might work, but for others it could mean big issues down the line. He loves to spend money like it's growing on the trees around your house, and you're a very thoughtful spender and like to save money...financial issues are a main source of divorce, so this might be one area where you want to make sure you're on a similar page.
Obviously it's kind of a case-by-case basis, but overall I don't personally think you should feel like you're settling
Compromise is essential to any relationship, but there are things people would be willing to compromise and things they aren't. Only you can decide what/how much you would be willing to change/compromise for someone else. The best advice about that that I got was not to let go of anything that would make me resentful of my spouse. So if you have passions that you have always envisioned doing, don't give those up or it could do more harm than good to the relationship.
I made one big request for change, pretty early in the relationship (one year in?). It was an ultimatum and one he knew I'd follow through on. He did. And we've been happier for it ever since.
My college boyfriend drank himself into a serious heart problem. Drinking landed him in the ER multiple times because of the heart trouble and almost killed him. It ended his first career. I will not put up with that kind of bad health decision again. Early in our relationship, DH had some hobbies which put his health at risk. I told him he had to chose between me and those hobbies. He didn't decide immediately, but it has been for the good.
Yes, you can ask for something big. But only on fair terms: do it early enough that the other person can walk away. Know what you are asking. Know if it is something they can actually change. Be okay with being turned down. Know what you can and can't compromise on. Don't ask for a change if you are okay with a compromise.
If someone is a drug addict or a drunk or does things that harm their body, you can try to get them help. Those are changes not just to make you happy but to help them.
The thing is for me, I would never start out a relationship with some like that, so I would never have to worry about changing them. I only dated "bad boy" very briefly and casual when I was very young. It was fun and exciting but not who I want to spend my life with or have children with.
Post by sparkythelawyer on May 6, 2013 8:48:13 GMT -5
I'm trying to phrase my words the way they feel in my mind, and I'll probably fail, but here goes.
It sort of depends on the "change." If I have to look at someone and say, "Well, if you give up drinking until you black out, that pesky pot addiction, your lack of any real drive in life, and the fact that you see no problems living in your mama's basement" then I take a pass.
If the change is, "dude, you really need to work on hitting the INSIDE of the toilet when you pee, putting your dishes in the dishwasher, and perhaps not treat freezer pizza as a food group" that's the kind of change that is more reasonable in a relationship, you know?
Nobody is perfect, and a lot of times you will not even see the red flags for a good six months or more. I remember a stand up bit by Chris Rock that I always thought was right, the first six months you are dating someone, you are dating their representative. The one with table manners, the clean one, the chivalrous one, etc. You have to be around someone a while before they let their guard down enough for you to see what you are really working with.
I will tell you it is ok to put a year into a person and then say, "You know? This isn't for me after all. I'm just not comfortable with X, Y or Z, and I just don't want to invest any more time in seeing if the ship rights itself." It is more important to be true to what you have learned you wanted and don't want in life, keeping in mind what you have experienced thus far.
I made one big request for change, pretty early in the relationship (one year in?). It was an ultimatum and one he knew I'd follow through on. He did. And we've been happier for it ever since.
My college boyfriend drank himself into a serious heart problem. Drinking landed him in the ER multiple times because of the heart trouble and almost killed him. It ended his first career. I will not put up with that kind of bad health decision again. Early in our relationship, DH had some hobbies which put his health at risk. I told him he had to chose between me and those hobbies. He didn't decide immediately, but it has been for the good.
Yes, you can ask for something big. But only on fair terms: do it early enough that the other person can walk away. Know what you are asking. Know if it is something they can actually change. Be okay with being turned down. Know what you can and can't compromise on. Don't ask for a change if you are okay with a compromise.
i think the fact that you were willing to leave is the key, here. you didn't say change just because. you said change because if you do not, you are not the man for me. so, he got to decide. was he the man for you or was he not? he decided that he was, and then followed through. you know?
the problem is the square peg/round hole. where you want someone to change and you think they should change and you wish they would change but they don't change and then you're miserable and they're miserable and everyone would be better off single and trolling match.com. that is something ain't nobody got time for.